Business Class or Coach?

[nwsteve]

For those considering a trip to Australia, Quantas has announced a promo on their premium economy of about 2600 RT from LA. Promo good till Jan 29 or sold out. Check out their website for details. Qantas Premium Economy

Nwsteve

 

[Nemo2]

For those considering a trip to Australia, Quantas has announced a promo on their premium economy of about 2600 RT from LA. Promo good till Jan 29 or sold out. Check out their website for details. Qantas Premium Economy

Nwsteve

Seem to recall that Qantas bonds had recently been downgraded to junk......that, and they got out of Tassie.......downward spiral?

 

[NW-Bound]

Perhaps I should rethink my desire for business-class seats.

I think you most likely have a higher NW than I do, and as an executive you are certainly more accustomed to being pampered than I have been, meaning have flown in business-class seats more often to get spoiled. So, why am I complaining about that little seat?

We are heading to HK for a week to visit DD. Economy tickets were $1400, business was $5xxx. I can think of a lot of other things to do with that extra $8k for the two of us in exchange for sitting in a tiny seat for 14hrs each way. We've been retired for a year, and have a pretty good sized travel budget, but until we finish some other projects that need to be done, we'll travel cheaply. Our last flight was in April last year for DD's university graduation in Hawaii. That was economy, and was not a problem, as it was a day flight, and 5 or 6 hours. We've traveled by business for years on the company's expense, and believe me, when you have to get off of a 14 hour plane ride and go to a big, important meeting, it makes a huge difference to be able to get some sleep. But for some touristy things in a place we've been many times, I think we can handle economy.

R

 

[NW-Bound]

Yesterday, while reading a James Bond novel, I ran across a description of air travel in 1956 by Ian Fleming. Bond was flying from London to Boston on a Boeing Stratocruiser (B377). Out of curiosity, I looked up this quad-engine airplane. It had a double-decker arrangement. Very impressive for its time.

Wikipedia has the following to say.

In 1956 BOAC B377s had 50 First Class seats (fare $400 one way New York to London) or 81 Tourist seats (fare $290). The upper and lower decks were connected with a spiral staircase, which later appeared in early Boeing 747s.
​

The inflation factor since then is about 9X, so that in today's dollars the first-class seat was $7200 for round trip, while coach was $5220. The difference was not as much as today. Perhaps coach was more like business class today.

For comparison, I just looked up the typical airfare for Heathrow/JFK. Coach: $900. Business: $3500. First Class: $12000.

 

[marko]

I used to take the NWA 747 to Narita from MSP. Top deck was 8 (yes, just 8) first class seats on the top deck. Two rows of two on each side. One time it was just me and some other guy.... Nice way to spend 17 hours!

 

[NW-Bound]

That looks like the same first-class arrangement we flew on a Qantas 747 once, when we got upgraded from business class.

Unless I am filthy rich, I do not see that it's worth the money over business class. I cannot really afford the latter already.

 

[Sanbenito1]

I'm 6' tall and tired of having my knees crushed when the person in front of me reclines their seat. Bulkheads seemed to be reserved for frequent fliers, or people under 5'2". Next time I fly international it will be in business class. This is why I save my pennies elsewhere, so I can splurge on luxuries like business class every couple years. Life is too short to arrive at your destination tired and cranky

 

[mpeirce]

I'm 6' tall and tired of having my knees crushed when the person in front of me reclines their seat. Bulkheads seemed to be reserved for frequent fliers, or people under 5'2". Next time I fly international it will be in business class. This is why I save my pennies elsewhere, so I can splurge on luxuries like business class every couple years. Life is too short to arrive at your destination tired and cranky

I'm 6' 6"

I've been too cheap so far to pay for business class on international flights, going with economy plus instead.

After you fly business class, let us know if it was worth it...

 

[HFWR]

I definitely hate coach, but I'd never get to travel by air otherwise...

 

[MichaelB]

Looks like flying coarh is going to get even more uncomfortable. It’s not your imagination, airlines really are shrinking the size of seats - Business, Editor's Picks - Macleans.ca

Air Canadas third high-density Boeing 777 airplane will take to the skies in mid-December. The new plane will feature three cabinsbusiness, economy and premium economyand will pack in 109 more paying customers than existing 777s, boosting the total number of passengers per plane to 458 from 349. As if it needed saying, most of the extra bodies will be squeezed into the economy-class cabin. Each seat is about 43 cm across instead of the usual 46 cm, allowing them to be laid out in rows that are 10 across instead of the standard nine. Im not sure customers really notice the inch that much, says airline spokesperson Peter Fitzpatrick, who adds that many of the narrower seats are more ergonomically designed. Sometimes they dont notice until theyre told.

Its not only elbow room passengers are losing, though. Several carriers, including United Airlines, Delta Air Lines and Alaska Airlines, to name a few, have adopted new slimline seats with thinner cushions and headrests. They can be placed closer together, front to back, freeing up space for additional rows.

 

[HFWR]

Looks like flying coarh is going to get even more uncomfortable. It’s not your imagination, airlines really are shrinking the size of seats - Business, Editor's Picks - Macleans.ca

For me, the lack of padding, and the totally non-ergonomic design, is worse than the lack of space.

 

[samclem]

We are heading to HK for a week to visit DD. Economy tickets were $1400, business was $5xxx. I can think of a lot of other things to do with that extra $8k for the two of us in exchange for sitting in a tiny seat for 14hrs each way.

That's the way I usually make decisions about these things: Is there anything else I could do with that $8K that would bring more happiness? Heck, that's a few more days in Europe for the two of us, or three years of eating out an additional time every week. Either of those bring way more enjoyment than 5" more legroom, cushier seats, and slightly better chow while on the plane.

Convert everything to beer and pizza . . .

 

[Chuckanut]

That's the way I usually make decisions about these things: Is there anything else I could do with that $8K that would bring more happiness? <snip>

Convert everything to beer and pizza . . .

+1 And good wine!

 

[Alan]

Just booked Business Class flights from LAX to Sydney and back. We'll spend a few days with DD in Santa Monica before we leave in July, and after we return in November. Cost, including all taxes and fees, $5,052 for each of us. Includes a 3.5 hr stop in Fiji, but the non-stop flights were $2k / person more.

Never spent that much on flights before, so this is probably a sure signal that the markets will tank this year.

 

[braumeister]

There's progress, and then there's progress.

There will never be a bigger plane built.
-- A Boeing engineer, after the first flight of the 247, a twin engine plane that holds ten people.

Personally, I don't enjoy flying commercial very much -- never have. And I do usually spring for business class when going across the pond. Sometimes even for domestic travel if it's four hours or more. But for under 2,000 miles I'm far more likely to simply take a few days and drive the distance.

 

[RunningBum]

That's the way I usually make decisions about these things: Is there anything else I could do with that $8K that would bring more happiness? Heck, that's a few more days in Europe for the two of us, or three years of eating out an additional time every week. Either of those bring way more enjoyment than 5" more legroom, cushier seats, and slightly better chow while on the plane.

That's definitely a correct way to look at it. But some people may have made a decision years before, do I work OMY or 2 or 3 more years and be able to travel in more comfort in retirement? If your job was tolerable it's a valid choice. For those that chose that way, they aren't giving up something else to travel business class.

 

[NW-Bound]

Business class seats are nice, no doubt about it particularly for long cross-ocean flights as we have enjoyed those a few times, but not paying out of our pocket.

But being frugal all my life, I ask myself how large a portfolio I would need in order to pay $5K+/seat vs. $1500 without cringing, and the answer is $5M. Obviously, I am not there, actually far from it.

Well, maybe in a couple more years I may change my mind when I realize that my time is running out and I need to pamper myself before it's too late, but right now, it's tough! My wife is even more frugal than I am.

 

[Alan]

But some people may have made a decision years before, do I work OMY or 2 or 3 more years and be able to travel in more comfort in retirement? If your job was tolerable it's a valid choice. For those that chose that way, they aren't giving up something else to travel business class.

We worked at least 2 or 3 years beyond what FIRECALC said we could comfortably do, but it was retiree health insurance and starting a DB pension at 55 instead of 62 that were the real reason we stuck it out. We were going to fly business class last year to England but DW found out we could sail over and back on the Queens for a lot less. I don't think we will going to Oz again for a long time, and I can't see us not sailing over and back to Europe again instead of flying, so this coming flight is going to be a one off, or at least a rarity.

 

[samclem]

That's definitely a correct way to look at it. But some people may have made a decision years before, do I work OMY or 2 or 3 more years and be able to travel in more comfort in retirement? If your job was tolerable it's a valid choice. For those that chose that way, they aren't giving up something else to travel business class.

True, they aren't giving up anything now or in the future, since they already "paid". 2 years x 50 weeks x 40 hours = 4000 extra hours spent pulling on the oars for the man. Those had better be some dang comfortable seats up in business class!
But, I'm glad we are free to choose.

 

[Moscyn]

On long hauls, I will pay for premium economy (or economy plus as some flights call it). However I usually save up my mileage for redeeming business class if available. I do suffer from bad leg cramps if flight is too long and if I can't do the full horizontal position during the flight. Thus, for medical reasons and to truly enjoy my holiday, I will pay for business class if I have to. Once on a flight from Hong Kong to London where I had redeemed business class tickets against mileage, I was upgraded to first class. Wow! That was really an experience. You don't get a seat number, you get a suite number! And they serve Krug champagne.

 

[jerryo]

I fly between DC to Manila several times a year and take numerous other long trips and have to say that flying in business often makes what is otherwise a 24 hour ordeal much more bearable.

In the past, I'd only fly business on someone else's dime, but now that I'm retired, I'm more inclined to fly business days (perhaps its an age thing) even if I have to pay myself. Some of my reasons:

First, international business itself has gotten a lot more luxurious over the past decade, and is now comparable to what first class used to be. Flatbed seats (with sumptuous bedding), private seat pods, 24 inch TVs, good food and wine, and (sometimes) solicitous service. Not to speak of access to international lounges (showers, food, drink, sometimes even beds), no lines, plenty of overhead space, first on/first off, special baggage handling, special check in, special security, etc.).

Second, virtually no one pays the "rack" rate for business class. Discounted coach tickets to Manila, often on full planes, typically go for $1500 - $2,000. But while Cathay and Singapore may ask $10,000 for business class round trip from DC to Manila, full price on Delta or United (and often Cathay and Sing too) is typically more like $5,000 to $6,000. And Ethiad and Emirates (flying the other way around) offer a wonderful business class (with a free stop and a night's hotel in the Middle East, if desired) for $2500 -3500. And, if you have frequent flyer miles you can do even better. Both United and Delta, for example, typically offer Business class upgrades for 25k miles and $500 each way over cheapest coach. (Not too speak of the deals offered by consolidators and mileage bucket shops, which I usually stay away from.)

Third, within Asia, good business classes are available on Singapore, Cathay, Thai and other airlines (not quite up to the transpacific and transatlantic standards, but much better than domestic U.S. business) that are sometimes heavily discounted. One time, for example, I was quoted $350 on Cathay for a coach round-trip from Manila to Beijing (not a bad price), but was offered Business Class seats for just five dollars more ( $355 roundtrip, a steal!!). And Singapore and Thai offer frequent flyer tickets within Asia for 25,000 miles round trip in coach, but only 35,000 miles in business...including a stop, if desired (e.g. Manila to Bali with a stop in Singapore or Manila to Rangoon with a stop in Bangkok!!!)

So, while I certainly won't pay $10,000 for business class, I was willing to pay $2600 for my next trip from Manila to the States in March (vs. $1500 in coach)....

 

[jerome len]

Although I don't fly overseas like JerryO, I really agree with his comments on business class. I do fly 1st class in the US and many times, booking ahead, 1st class adds around $100 to the total cost.....about the same as paying for luggage. I've worked hard, can afford it and so I do it!

 

[obgyn65]

I fly coach because I am frugal.

Additionally, when I fly overseas for missionary trips, flying business would eat into the medicines budgets for my patients in developing countries. And I just couldn't look in some of these kids' eyes and say "sorry, I flew business this time so no vitamins or antibiotics for you". I just couldn't do it.

 

[Chuckanut]

And I just couldn't look in some of these kids' eyes and say "sorry, I flew business this time so no vitamins or antibiotics for you". I just couldn't do it.

I doubt if many people here could do it.

 

[Mulligan]

Although I don't fly overseas like JerryO, I really agree with his comments on business class. I do fly 1st class in the US and many times, booking ahead, 1st class adds around $100 to the total cost.....about the same as paying for luggage. I've worked hard, can afford it and so I do it!

Are there any tips/tricks to getting a 1st class for a hundred more bucks? I usually pay around $250-$300 for rd. trip tickets to Vegas several times a year and when I check 1st class is usually $300-$500 more. I would definitely consider giving the old bones a break on the 4 hour flight for a $100.