Philippines Bound

[GraySpirit]

China was my first pick for retirement living. But after going through 8 CD's and not learning much more than ni hao, I had a change of heart.

Heading out for the Philippines in about a month. Will spend some time in Manila then head south to settle in Cebu or Davao. Cost of living is quite nice there. And it's a nice location for visiting southeast asia and china pretty conveniently.

Anyone with any experience in the Philippines? I've made regular preretirement visits and like the country.

Third choice if it doesn't pan out ... probably Malaysia.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Bon chance, mon ami.

I have a very good friend who was born in the P.I. We talked about this once. He is not in good straights here, but he says he would never go back to retire in the Philippines.

I am not quite so negative, but my future is somewhere in this hemisphere.

 

[GraySpirit]

Hehe ... well after Southeast Asia, then Mexico, Costa Rica or Panama would have been my picks. Little pricier, but still a lot less expensive than stateside.

 

[ER_Hopeful]

China was my first pick for retirement living.

just curious, which city/province did you have in mind?

Although I'm a long way from retirement, China is a possible retirement place for me, but then I was born there.

 

[GraySpirit]

just curious, which city/province did you have in mind?

Although I'm a long way from retirement, China is a possible retirement place for me, but then I was born there.

Well, with China I had 2 options. One was joining up with the Peace Corps and being assigned somewhere in the interior of China. It is actually pretty nice duty, teaching English at some university. Not the typical Peace Corps assignment you might think of.

Aside from that I enjoyed Nanning quite a bit. It was southern enough to be not to different from the climate that I am used to. It didn't seem as polluted as some of the other cities that I just passed through, but I just may have been lucky to be there on a good couple of weeks. Foods were excellent. Found a street filled with vendors with aquariums filled with live fish and shellfish. I just pointed and they always cooked up a really fine meal for me on the spot that would rival a first class restaurant.

I know the east coast is where all the economic activity is, but I enjoyed Nanning and then Kunming very much. But alas, after months of listening to Mandarin CD's going to and from work ... I never got much beyond "wo yao yi bei cafe" (I want a cup of coffee). Hah I think that's how you spell it.

 

[Andy R]

I spent 5 days in Cebu last year on a business trip. I thought it was an interesting place. One thing I enjoyed was the shopping centers which were very modern and offer a chance to get away from the Jeepnies.

 

[GraySpirit]

I spent 5 days in Cebu last year on a business trip. I thought it was an interesting place. One thing I enjoyed was the shopping centers which were very modern and offer a chance to get away from the Jeepnies.

Yeap, I'm mostly likely to end up in Cebu or just outside the city. Manila, Cebu, and Davao are all pretty modern by my standards. Haha ... if you ride around in the jeepneys hang on to your wallet!

 

[TeeRuh]

Have you looked at Baguio City? The climate is so much better than Manila (about 5000 feet I believe). I've only visited but it is very pretty.

t.r.

 

[charls]

Phillipines

My daughter in law is from Philippines and her family still lives there. She loves living the American dream here in Texas and her parents would like to retire here but have problems getting health benefits here. Seems like the grass is greener on the other side of ......

Check it out for about 6 months then let us know how green the grass is over there.
Good Luck!

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

Hehe ... well after Southeast Asia, then Mexico, Costa Rica or Panama would have been my picks. Little pricier, but still a lot less expensive than stateside.

Not so according Arif who recently returned from Panama to the States. The difference between living outside the US and living in a cheaper part of the US is the ease with which you can pick up part time work. You probably can pick up part time jobs outside of the US, but those jobs will most likely be under the table jobs.

By all means I'm not looking to discourage anyone. Living in a 3rd world country may be the only way I can achieve ER.

 

[REWahoo]

My daughter in law is from Philippines and her family still lives there. She loves living the American dream here in Texas and her parents would like to retire here but have problems getting health benefits here. Seems like the grass is greener on the other side of ......

I have a retired neighbor married to a gal from the Philippines. He wants to move there, she refuses to go back to living in a less developed country. Different strokes...

 

[GraySpirit]

Teeruh, yes if you want cooler weather Baguio and Tagaytay are nice alternatives in the mountains.

Buns, you are correct. It all depends on how you live. When you move abroad some commodities don't change in price and in fact may get more expensive. On the other hand if you learn to adapt and study the economy, it's a lot easier to live cheaply in those countries. Americans living in the Philippines who live in huge mansions, run a/c all day, drive gas guzzling suv's, and have servants are likely to find living expenses high.

Charls and Rewahoo, haha ... the grass is always greener elsewhere. If I were young and needed a job, the Philippines would not be where I want to be. On the other hand, retired on a pension, all of southeast asia and latin america is the life of riley for me. If you need to work to supplement your pension, you either should stay in the US or figure out how to work online and live off the US economy. If I recall correctly, about 20% of the Philippines economy is driven by money sent home by workers overseas. Developing countries are great for retirement but pretty lousy for employment.

I would also nix living abroad if your health is not so great and you need a lot of complex health care and if you have medical insurance stateside. If you live in most developing countries health care is usually on a cash basis. It's a lot cheaper of course, but you will need some cash reserves to purchase it.

 

[Gone4Good]

I like the idea of living overseas for a time and it would be great if it was inexpensive too. But I'd be really nervous if my retirement plan depended on residing in a low cost developing country. Two large potential problems come to mind. 1) you find that the conveniences of developed countries are actually worth the price but you can now no longer afford them; 2) your developing country of choice becomes progressively less cheap over the coming years because they are rapidly raising their standard of living; 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

Before I quit my day job I think I'd have to have a retirement plan that works in the U.S. just to make sure I have a viable fall back position.

But then again, if things didn't work out I guess I could always use the "David Carradine" escape hatch.

 

[Geoffrey]

I've spend a fair amount of time in the Philippines and I'm actively considering retiring there. Main advantage to me is that my wife has many relatives and friends there that we both really like. With respect to cost of living, it all depends. Services (haircuts, taxis, maids, etc.) are incredibly cheap. Goods are a different story. Local goods are relatively inexpensive by American standards, but quality can be a real problem. Imported goods are often more expensive than in the U.S. Curiously, real estate can be very expensive. Tiny lots, priced by the square meter, are often more expensive, all things considered, than a typical residental lot in the States. We'll probably simply look for a rental house. If you want to live an "American livestyle" (eating American foods and living in a house build to American standards, you'll probably find it as expensive, if not more expensive than living in the U.S. If you adopt more of the local lifestyle in terms of diet, and accept Filipino standards in housing and elsewhere, the Philippines can really stretch your dollar -- and, you can enjoy luxuries such as a live-in maid that may be beyond your reach in the States. Bottom Line: The Philippines can be a very attractive place to live, but I don't think it is for everyone.

 

[GraySpirit]

If you adopt more of the local lifestyle in terms of diet, and accept Filipino standards in housing and elsewhere, the Philippines can really stretch your dollar -- and, you can enjoy luxuries such as a live-in maid that may be beyond your reach in the States. Bottom Line: The Philippines can be a very attractive place to live, but I don't think it is for everyone.

I agree completely. To get the housing cost down, you might want to look at properties in the smaller cities or on the outskirts of Metro Manila. If you're in Manila, you're competing with a lot of working expats from Asia and the West for the nice properties.

I've found a nice 4 bedroom townhouse in a nice subdivision fully furnished outside of Cebu city thats running for about $400 a month. But it's a little too big for me. I'm guessing that when I get there on a permanent basis I'll be able to get a decent place for $2-300 a month.

One should do a lot of research and visit before making the move there.

 

[GraySpirit]

I like the idea of living overseas for a time and it would be great if it was inexpensive too. But I'd be really nervous if my retirement plan depended on residing in a low cost developing country. Two large potential problems come to mind. 1) you find that the conveniences of developed countries are actually worth the price but you can now no longer afford them; 2) your developing country of choice becomes progressively less cheap over the coming years because they are rapidly raising their standard of living; 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

Before I quit my day job I think I'd have to have a retirement plan that works in the U.S. just to make sure I have a viable fall back position.

But then again, if things didn't work out I guess I could always use the "David Carradine" escape hatch.

LOL ... I'm not sure things could ever get that bad for me to want to do a David Carradine.

But its a good point about the cost of living changing over time. Most of the nice destinations are nice because they are slowly developing the infrastructure to make them appealing. But if they continue to develop along this path, prices will tend to increase. So one should still have a savings/investment plan even when living on the cheap for the present.

 

[wcv56]

Traffic pretty much terrible most places in PI and filth even in the best of neighborhoods. Crime is almost everywhere for a foreigner in the PI.
Thought about it but after 30 of 35 years in foreign countries will just use foreign
countries for vacations. I didn't see anything of value in PI for quality living and would be more like living in poorer sections of large U.S, cities... Crime is the biggest turn off of Phillipines along with filth.

 

[Geoffrey]

wcv56,

Traffic, filth, crime . . . yes, you'll find that in the Philippines. But, there is also stunning natural beauty, a slower pace of life, a warm and friendly culture, and much, much more to compensate. To appreciate the Philippines, one must learn to mitigate the negatives and embrace the positives. For those who can to make the adjustment, the Philippines can be a rewarding place to live. But, I'll be the first to admit that it is not for everyone, especially those who bring all of their home-country expectations with them to the Philippines.

 

[steve88]

Traffic pretty much terrible most places in PI and filth even in the best of neighborhoods. Crime is almost everywhere for a foreigner in the PI.
Thought about it but after 30 of 35 years in foreign countries will just use foreign
countries for vacations. I didn't see anything of value in PI for quality living and would be more like living in poorer sections of large U.S, cities... Crime is the biggest turn off of Phillipines along with filth.

Traffic filth we already have it here. Filth just a matter of time when it will reach our gated community.

You can't pay enough money for rich filipinos to live here because of quality of life.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

T

Buns, you are correct. It all depends on how you live. When you move abroad some commodities don't change in price and in fact may get more expensive. On the other hand if you learn to adapt and study the economy, it's a lot easier to live cheaply in those countries. Americans living in the Philippines who live in huge mansions, run a/c all day, drive gas guzzling suv's, and have servants are likely to find living expenses high.

I would also nix living abroad if your health is not so great and you need a lot of complex health care and if you have medical insurance stateside. If you live in most developing countries health care is usually on a cash basis. It's a lot cheaper of course, but you will need some cash reserves to purchase it.

Yep, outside the US, people & labor are cheap but goods are expensive usually due to some insane import taxation imposed by the government for infant industry protection.

I have looked at several web sites that indicate I could be living a nice life now in Mexico, but I'm not yet convinced. I think I'll actually pull the trigger when I have a much bigger cushion.

 

[GraySpirit]

Traffic pretty much terrible most places in PI and filth even in the best of neighborhoods. Crime is almost everywhere for a foreigner in the PI.
Thought about it but after 30 of 35 years in foreign countries will just use foreign
countries for vacations. I didn't see anything of value in PI for quality living and would be more like living in poorer sections of large U.S, cities... Crime is the biggest turn off of Phillipines along with filth.

Living is what you make of it. Every place presents opportunities and drawbacks. Find the spot that works for you and you'll be happy.

If you learn to navigate a country and its culture, it's a lot more doable, but it's not for everyone. When I navigate the Philippines, and I do so solo, I don't feel any more or less at risk than when in my home state. It's all a matter of using good judgement and knowing how to blend in - which is kind of easy for me. But definitely not for everyone and should be done only after you do your homework.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

I retired last year and came to the Phils as the first country on my list of 6 to check out as a possible place to live. I've been here 8 months, much of that in Cebu City. I'd been here before for vacation and I'd vacationed in third world countries before. I'll touch on topics not already mentioned.

The air pollution in the cities is more than I can handle. Respiratory illnesses are common here. If I stay it won't be in a city. The minor illnesses and health risk are not worth it.

Some foreigners here live in the cities, for others it would be hellish. There are places that are an hour or two drive (or ferry ride) from a large town that are a world of difference. Some of these places actually have ammenties that appeal to foreigners.

As a foreigner one has to keep a low profile. Don't argue, don't object, don't glare at the person who just tried to rip you off, under serve you or tell you it can't be done when you know full well it can. Smile and walk away. Smile and walk away. Revenge killings between locals are an almost daily occurance here. Foreigners are usually murdered as part of an early morning burglary where the hired help and wife sleep right through the whole thing. It's never discussed but I figure that what happened was the burglary was piggybacked on the revenge killing.

Some mentioned Baugio. Much cooler climate but the city is situated in an ancient caldera (remains of a volcano that blew its top) witch traps the air. The air is crap. Worse than that is the city has about 10X the population it was designed for. Morning and evening drive times are more like parking lots than roads.

The two main reasons the foreign men seem to stay here is that English is spoken and that Filipinas are happy to take foreigners as as lovers and husbands. In tourist oriented areas and businesses the English ranges from adequate to good. Outside that and I did better in Mexico with my 30 year old high school spanish than I do here with my English.

As for the girls and women. Just remember that even though you may learn to spot the scammers there is such a thing as The Long Con. 'Simple' as it applies to females is a concept that one could write a book on and still not understand it as a foreigner. There are some of the sweetest 'simple' girls and young women imaginable here. Finding an emotional and intellectual connection that would justify a long term relationship with one is a challenge. True love happens, but what also happens is two people decide that they would be happy respectfully taking care of each other.

Many of the disillusioned foreigners describe the locals as stupid and ignorant. I'll agree with them as ignorant, at least about things that a high school educated person from the first world would know. Stupid is another matter. One has to look beyond the surface to try and find a cultural justification for behavior that appears to be stupid. If one can't do that eventually one is going to snap at someone and that goes against the Prime Directive: Keep a Low Profile.

I've been to various foreigner hangouts. If it's during the day there are many men here with expressions on their face that shows they're angry that it's too early to start drinking. They're almost always the ones here just for the inexpensive English speaking bar girls. The men who are not here for that reason tend to keep their distance from those who are.

Doesn't matter what the law says, as a foreigner you have almost no rights or protections. That's one reason very few foreigners drive their own cars. Get in an accident and no matter what happened, the foreigner was the sole cause of it.

I've all but decided to move on to my next country. It's been interesting here but the cons far outweigh the pros.

 

[Geoffrey]

ItDontMeanAThing,

I agree that air pollution in larger cities is a problem, especially when you use jeepneys (diesel exhaust) for local transportation. However, I've found that using cabs and carefully choosing where you live can mitigate the pollution issues to an acceptable level. I also agree that keeping a low profile is essential. Ostentatious displays of wealth, rude and or "I'm superior than thou" behavior will nearly always lead to something unpleasant. And, no doubt there are plenty of Filipinas seeking a sugar daddy or simply a "ticket out" of the Philippines. However, you will also find some amazing women in the PI . . . women who often make excellent wives. My wife of 12 years is a former school teacher in the Philippines. She comes from a good family, she's honest, dependable, loving, caring, frugal, and I love her dearly. I've been accepted into her family and genuninely enjoy their company. As you allude to, foreigners will always be at a distinct disadvantage in most disputes as local law and custom will tend to favor the native filipino. I suspect that is true in most third world venues. Despite the "warts," I still find the Philippines to be an attractive place to live. It really depends on what you are looking for, and on how willing you are to adapt to the local environment. Once cannot "bend the Philippines" to one's own perception of the way things ought to be. You must embrace as it is, warts and all. It's not for everyone.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

ItDontMeanAThing,
Once cannot "bend the Philippines" to one's own perception of the way things ought to be. You must embrace as it is, warts and all. It's not for everyone.

Total agreement. The rest of your post was spot on also, IMHO.

 

[GraySpirit]

ItDontMeanAThing,

Sorry things didn't work out for you. Here are some thoughts for living not just visiting overseas.

Cities like MetroCebu are large urban complexes. Traffic and pollution and crime will seem intimidating in a city of 4 million people. I live in a city stateside of about half a million and don't like the center of town for those same reasons - I just can't get a good night sleep with the traffic and all. So to adapt, the further away from the city center you move pollution, crime and traffic tends to go down. I like the city for shopping and dining, but not for living, so I generally look for a more suburban setting. On the fringes of Cebu City or most any other big city, the kinds of problems you describe will tend to decline. And so will the price of rent. Drive 20 minutes out of the city and you will find yourself in a different environment but close to the city amenities.

As for a murder per day, that's probably low. In a city of 4 million that's a lower homicide rate than many large American cities and not appreciably better or worse than most low crime American cities. If your goal is to evaluate the risk, take the overall population into account. Now within the city, like any other city, there are very high crime areas and low crime areas. You have to get to know this. I live in a very low crime city, but there are places where I would not walk alone at night, because I know my city well.

And finally, if you do end up in Asia, most Asian cultures are non-confrontational. It would be wise not to be a loud mouthed American mouthing off at every little annoyance. In my life and profession stateside, that's how I am anyway, I've learned to deal with conflict without confrontation and manage situations that could escalate into problems with many different ethnic groups. It's not a bad way to live really, makes life a lot less stressful.

LOL ... as for bargirls ... well my home city right now is a tourist trap and we have lots of bars, bargirls, and other tourist places that cater to more hedonistic behavior. Hehe ... I rarely go into that part of town, and don't anticipate it being a part of my future life when I move abroad either. Most of my contacts in the Philippines have been with professionals and communications are just fine. I'm not looking for romance, but if I were I'd be looking among the professionals rather than the bargirls. Why some men go that route for relationships is beyond me, it seems a very high risk population for unstable relationships and problems. Yet, it represents a tiny tiny part of the population. Not sure why one would not look elsewhere when there are so many more females who represent a lower risk of romantic failure who work regular jobs.

I think in times past parts of the Philippines was home for the American sex tourist/retired GI. But that's changing throughout Asia now. I see the economy shifting away from that kind of emphasis towards bringing in foreign investment, foreign retirement communities, and development ... same way that Vegas has moved gradually away from sin city to more of a disneyland kind of tourist trap. The retirement incentives set a higher bar for retirement income - I suppose to filter out the high risk foreigners and that's fine with me.

Anyway, the point of all this is one has to adapt and seek out the opportunities same as you do in the states. Good luck in your travels and hope that you find what you need.