Space encroachment on flights

[Souschef]

Maybe I'll start a positive "what fun and memorable things have happened to you on a flight" thread...

I was on a flight from London to Glasgow, sitting in the window seat. Next to me was an attractive younger lady. The drink cart came by and I asked for a single malt scotch.
The lady asked if I liked single malt scotch and what was my favorite. I told her it was Bowmore, and i had a number of different ones. I told her I was going on a cruise in Scotland and will be visiting the distillery.
She handed me her card, and she was the operations manager of the distillery! She told me to look her up when I got there.
I did, and she let me taste some of their extra special single malts.
Below is a photo of her offering one of their special bottlings

 

[Souschef]

Heh, heh, most of the folks traveling with kids have no problem. I might have a problem with THEM, but they don't have a problem. Their kids don't kick THEIR seat back. Their kids shrieks and squalling doesn't bother most parents any more - they've learned how to ignore it.

But I'm not bitter...

Someone suggested a 3 step process to kids kicking your seat.
1. Tell the kid to stop kicking your seat.
2. Tell the parent to tell the child to stop kicking your seat.
3.Tell the parent to change seats with you

 

[Scuba]

That's the big if. When I board SW Airline, It's often hard enough for me to find one seat let alone two.

If you buy Early Bird seating on SW, you will be among the first to board. It's only $15 per flight. Well worth it.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

Maybe I'll start a positive "what fun and memorable things have happened to you on a flight" thread...

I had a coworker who met his wife on an international flight. She was from Switzerland so of course we referred to her as his "Swiss Miss."

 

[scrabbler1]

With all the bad experiences on flights shown here, I thought I'd share a good one I had on a flight back in 1991.


I was flying from New York's LaGuardia Airport to Dallas, connecting for a flight to San Diego. On that flight, I was sitting next to a woman who shared my desire to pass the time playing Knock Rummy with the old, 3-game scoring method I recalled playing with my grandparents back in the 1970s.


It was a close, competitive game. In fact, our marathon game lasted for much of the flight, pausing for our in-flight dinner. By the time we had landed, our game had not even finished. We both had time at Dallas before our connecting flights were set to leave (she was continuing to San Francisco), so we were able to finally finish our marathon rummy game in the more comfy confines of the mostly empty terminal (our flights were night flights out of Dallas). She ended up winning, which was fine.


Her flight left first which left me some time to call my cousin who lived in Dallas at the time. He called me back on the pay phone (this was 1991, remember) and we were able to catch up on things for the price of a local call.


My connecting flight to SD was nearly empty, with maybe 40 people on the plane. Everyone had his or her own row so we folded up the armrests and grabbed lots of extra pillows and blankets and lad down and went to sleep. They turned off all the cabin lights and the FAs left us alone. No space encroachment issues on this flight!


We arrived in SD about 11:30 PM local time which was 2:30 AM body time. I still had to get my rental car and find my way to an Econo Lodge I barely knew where it was. I was fine, as I had far more energy back then (I was 28) than I have today LOL!

 

[Chuckanut]

I was on a flight across country a few years back in economy. I was sitting next to an older lady, probably mid 70s at least. She was obviously not used to flying.

She asked the flight attendant for some tea. Hearing this I assumed that she would get a disposable cup with a tea bag and some hot water, and that I would probably have to help her out lest she spill the hot water on herself. I was fine with that.

When the attendant returned he had a fancy tray from 1st Class, with a real cup and saucer, an assortment of tea bags and pot of hot water. The lady was in 7th heaven, and my opinion of flight attendants went up a lot.

 

[RunningBum]

Bought my way out of space encroachment on tomorrow's 5+ hour flight by upgrading to first class. Coach is almost 100% full, and my row was. A bit hard to justify but it turns a flight I've been dreading to an experience I'm kind of looking forward to. Enough for me.

 

[audreyh1]

Bought my way out of space encroachment on tomorrow's 5+ hour flight by upgrading to first class. Coach is almost 100% full, and my row was. A bit hard to justify but it turns a flight I've been dreading to an experience I'm kind of looking forward to. Enough for me.

Sounds good to me! We may be doing this more - well, on domestic flights where you can sometimes upgrade to first class for $100 or so.

The international flights we still aren't willing to spend an extra $2000-$4000 as we can use that money in other ways. I'd rather gift it to my siblings!

The United Airlines CEO thinks that airline customers are voting with their pocket book and won't pay a bit more for more space, so they keep shrinking the seats!!! Are they going to match American Airlines 29" seat pitch in economy in some rows? As long as they have economy plus I won't be too unhappy as we often have an empty seat between us.

“Seat pitch has come down,” Kirby said. “But seat pitch has come down because that’s what customers voted with their wallets that they wanted. I know everyone would tell you, ‘I would like more seat pitch.’ But the history in the airline industry is every time airlines put more seat pitch on, customers choose the lowest price.”

For now, most of United’s planes have pitch of 30 or 31 inches. Pitch measures the distance on one seat to the same space on the seat in front of it, so the metric is not directly tied to legroom. But generally seats with less pitch offer less knee and leg room

I do wonder where the seat shrinkage will end though. Americans are getting bigger, but the seats are shrinking. Spirit airlines has 28" seat pitch.

United’s President: Passengers Don’t Really Want More Leg Room | Frugal Travel Guy

United President Says Passengers Should Get Used to Tight Coach Seating

 

[sengsational]

The smaller pitch is uncomfortable, for sure, but when one considers the change in human dimensions, the length of the femur bone isn't changing much. The shrinking seat width is the problem, and it seems the non-wide body jets are less of a problem (they always have 3 and 3 configuration). When those airline bozos squeeze an extra seat into a widebody, that's criminal.

1. A 777 should be 9 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
2. An A330/A340 should be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
3. An A380 should be 10 seats across the lower deck.
4. A 787 should only be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.

With this is mind, you should be able to give yourself the most available comfort.
5. Our Top 10 narrowest long haul seats, (the ones to avoid)*

1. Air Asia X’s A330 – 16.5″ seat width
2. LOT’s 787 – 16.9″ seat width
3. Air France’s 777 – 17″ seat width
4. Air Transat’s A330-200 – 17″ seat width (The A330-300 has wider seats)
5. China Southern’s 777 – 17″ seat width
6. Air Canada’s 777-300ER (the ones that have a row 26) – 17″ seat width
7. Malaysia Airlines’ 777-200 – 17″ seat width – but especially nasty, as it’s 2 x 5 x 2 seating arrangement.
8. Air India’s 787 – 17″ seat width
9. American Airlines’ 777-300ER – 17″ seat width.
10. Thomson’s 787 – 17″seat width.

 

[exnavynuke]

The smaller pitch is uncomfortable, for sure, but when one considers the change in human dimensions, the length of the femur bone isn't changing much. The shrinking seat width is the problem, and it seems the non-wide body jets are less of a problem (they always have 3 and 3 configuration). When those airline bozos squeeze an extra seat into a widebody, that's criminal.

1. A 777 should be 9 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
2. An A330/A340 should be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
3. An A380 should be 10 seats across the lower deck.
4. A 787 should only be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.

With this is mind, you should be able to give yourself the most available comfort.
5. Our Top 10 narrowest long haul seats, (the ones to avoid)*

1. Air Asia X’s A330 – 16.5″ seat width
2. LOT’s 787 – 16.9″ seat width
3. Air France’s 777 – 17″ seat width
4. Air Transat’s A330-200 – 17″ seat width (The A330-300 has wider seats)
5. China Southern’s 777 – 17″ seat width
6. Air Canada’s 777-300ER (the ones that have a row 26) – 17″ seat width
7. Malaysia Airlines’ 777-200 – 17″ seat width – but especially nasty, as it’s 2 x 5 x 2 seating arrangement.
8. Air India’s 787 – 17″ seat width
9. American Airlines’ 777-300ER – 17″ seat width.
10. Thomson’s 787 – 17″seat width.

At 5' 9", the width of the seats is much more of an issue for me than the pitch. Most of Delta's (and most US CONUS flights) tend to be in the 16.X-18.x" seat width range (Delta has tons of planes at 17.2-17.3" for economy seating). When I weighed 155 lbs my shoulders were not going to fit inside one seat width. Window or aisle seat only so I can lean away from people to only be moderately uncomfortable, instead of massively uncomfortable in a middle seat these days..

 

[Fedup]

The smaller pitch is uncomfortable, for sure, but when one considers the change in human dimensions, the length of the femur bone isn't changing much. The shrinking seat width is the problem, and it seems the non-wide body jets are less of a problem (they always have 3 and 3 configuration). When those airline bozos squeeze an extra seat into a widebody, that's criminal.

1. A 777 should be 9 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
2. An A330/A340 should be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.
3. An A380 should be 10 seats across the lower deck.
4. A 787 should only be 8 seats across to give you a reasonable seat.

With this is mind, you should be able to give yourself the most available comfort.
5. Our Top 10 narrowest long haul seats, (the ones to avoid)*

1. Air Asia X’s A330 – 16.5″ seat width
2. LOT’s 787 – 16.9″ seat width
3. Air France’s 777 – 17″ seat width
4. Air Transat’s A330-200 – 17″ seat width (The A330-300 has wider seats)
5. China Southern’s 777 – 17″ seat width
6. Air Canada’s 777-300ER (the ones that have a row 26) – 17″ seat width
7. Malaysia Airlines’ 777-200 – 17″ seat width – but especially nasty, as it’s 2 x 5 x 2 seating arrangement.
8. Air India’s 787 – 17″ seat width
9. American Airlines’ 777-300ER – 17″ seat width.
10. Thomson’s 787 – 17″seat width.

Good to know. I don't use those airlines ever for long distance. I do fly Air Canada and American Airlines, but only for short flights.

 

[Amethyst]

Inexperienced flyer's question: Do you upgrade after looking at the sold-out seats online? How soon before boarding can you do that?

Bought my way out of space encroachment on tomorrow's 5+ hour flight by upgrading to first class. Coach is almost 100% full, and my row was. A bit hard to justify but it turns a flight I've been dreading to an experience I'm kind of looking forward to. Enough for me.

 

[Moemg]

Inexperienced flyer's question: Do you upgrade after looking at the sold-out seats online? How soon before boarding can you do that?

I never upgrade for short flights unless my seat is way in the back . I have upgraded at the desk before boarding but I fly alone a few times a year and it is easier to find one seat than two.Any long flights and I am upgrading for sure .

 

[RunningBum]

For a few days before the flight, they were offerimg economy plus for 100+ more , but first class was an extra 1K. Eco+ fo this plane was just 2-3 inches more pitch though, not worth it IMO. 24 hours before the 1st class upgrade dropped t $250. Not great, but for a packed flight, I decided to go. For the redeye return I will probably do the same.

So, usually, I look righT at 24 hours before for the upgrade deal. If the seat in coach next to me were open, I would have stayed with it. I use seatguru.com to look at seat quality. One of the 2 remaing 1st class seats was bad due to no recline and by bathrooms, but I grabbed the other one.

 

[audreyh1]

For a few days before the flight, they were offerimg economy plus for 100+ more , but first class was an extra 1K. Eco+ fo this plane was just 2-3 inches more pitch though, not worth it IMO. 24 hours before the 1st class upgrade dropped t $250. Not great, but for a packed flight, I decided to go. For the redeye return I will probably do the same.

So, usually, I look righT at 24 hours before for the upgrade deal. If the seat in coach next to me were open, I would have stayed with it. I use seatguru.com to look at seat quality. One of the 2 remaing 1st class seats was bad due to no recline and by bathrooms, but I grabbed the other one.

Which airlines? Thanks.

 

[Koolau]

DW just flew in from the Islands on United. She said everyone from the Terminal agents to the gate agents to the FAs were falling all over themselves trying to make a good second impression. First time a FA ever helped DW get her carry on into the overhead. Of course, nothing could be done about the seat pitch or width.

Apparently, this never happens, but on one of her flights, they overbooked FIRST CLASS. They began offering $1000 in vouchers and then had to go to $2000. That wasn't to get off the plane but to move from 1st class back to coach for a 2 hour flight.

Personally, I don't look for the special service to last. Within months I'm guessing it will be every-man/woman-for-him/her-self-cattle-car-to-the-rear-sit-down-shut-up-turn-the-cell-phone-off-stay-in-your-seat-that-bag's-too-big-we're-overbooked-you-want-what? YMMV

 

[RunningBum]

Which airlines? Thanks.

i was on United this time, but American and Delta have been similar for me. This is domestic. I can't recall if I was even offered on either Europe flight I've taken in the lasta 10 years.

 

[Amethyst]

Here is another take on space encroachment. It focuses on buses/subways, but certainly pertains to aircraft too.

The "comments" section is funny. Somebody keeps asserting that the Male Anatomy demands extra seat room. Nobody else is having it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-madrid-officials-say/?utm_term=.298c83f67054

 

[HFWR]

 

[Scuba]

View attachment 26141

[emoji23]

 

[gerntz]

The airlines are doing their best to encourage/create space encroachment with the shrink set space:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-best-and-worst-coach-seats-on-u-s-airlines-1497452020

"Some airlines are down to 28 inches of space from the back of your seat to the seat back in front of you in their basic coach rows, down from the once-standard 32 inches of what’s called seat pitch. That’s a difference felt right in the kneecap. Airlines considered full-service have shrunk down to 30 inches and American Airlines, which 15 years ago gave each row of coach seats 34 inches of space, considered going to rows with as few as 29 inches."

"Take 3 inches out of padding out of a seat back and you can push the seats several inches closer together without reducing personal space. In many cases, the new seats are more comfortable."

"Which airline has the best coach seats?
JetBlue . Rows are 32 inches long, planes have fast Wi-Fi service and seats have free seat-back entertainment. “Their Airbus aircraft consistently score higher than anyone else,” says SeatGuru’s Mr. Counter.

Virgin America is close with 32-inch seat pitch and similar amenities. Southwest has some planes at 32 and others at 31. These three so-called value carriers, which often don’t have the lowest prices but build a strong following with their comfort and service, offer the most legroom.

Which have the worst?
Spirit and Frontier are two major U.S. airlines with 28-inch seat pitch on their fleets. Even renowned cheapskate Ryanair has more. Around the world, only charter operators are typically that tight. SeatGuru says Spirit is “far and away” the most poorly rated in reviews for U.S. travelers.

What about the Big Guys?
American, Delta and United have standardized most of their planes at 30 to 31 inches of seat pitch. Adding rows creates capacity growth without the expense of new airplanes and makes a low-margin business more profitable.

Widest and skinniest seats?
Boeing single-aisle planes typically have 17.2-inch-wide seats in coach. Airbus single-aisle planes have 18.3 inches because of a wider fuselage. The newest seats coming from manufacturers actually are built to hug the sidewall more closely, moving the window seat closer to the window. That allows for a seat one-half inch wider on 737s, measured inside the armrests.

Seats on widebody planes used to be 18 inches wide, but now that is dwindling to 17 inches. The Boeing 787 was designed to have eight seats across, but now almost every airline flies it with nine 17-inch-wide seats in each row. The Boeing 777 has gone from nine abreast to 10. One airline—French leisure line Air Caraïbes, has installed 10 seats across each row of its brand new Airbus A350 jets. Other airlines have nine seats, but will that last?

“The difference between 17 and 18 is a big deal. You lose wiggle room. You’re shoulder to shoulder,” Mr. Counter says."

 

[RunningBum]

For a few days before the flight, they were offerimg economy plus for 100+ more , but first class was an extra 1K. Eco+ fo this plane was just 2-3 inches more pitch though, not worth it IMO. 24 hours before the 1st class upgrade dropped t $250. Not great, but for a packed flight, I decided to go. For the redeye return I will probably do the same.

So, usually, I look righT at 24 hours before for the upgrade deal. If the seat in coach next to me were open, I would have stayed with it. I use seatguru.com to look at seat quality. One of the 2 remaing 1st class seats was bad due to no recline and by bathrooms, but I grabbed the other one.

Just got home from my redeye. A few days early, I decided to grab an exit row aisle seat, knowing my propensity for bathroom trips in the middle of the night. About $100, pricey, but exit row seats weren't going so I thought the middle might stay open. My original economy seat had a full row and no option to switch to another window or aisle. I had the chance to upgrade to 1st class, but it was going to be full so I took the chance I'd have an open seat next to me in the exit row. An hour before the flight the middle seat was still open on both sides of row 20 so my plan was looking great.

Boarded the plane, and not only the middle seat was taken, but so was mine! Oh h#ll no! I showed my boarding pass for 20C, and the guy in my seat got out his, and noticed he should be in 20D. I glanced over and saw the middle seat next to that still open, and said "No need to move, I'll just take D, OK?" He must've been half asleep because he agreed. I settled in and pulled my cap down and feigned a quick sleep so he wouldn't wise up and ask for his seat. I checked seating with my United phone app and sure enough, someone had grabbed 20B but 20E was one of 3 empty seats on the plane!

I guess everybody has their obsessions, one of mine is to try my best to have extra space on a flight. I got good enough sleep on the flight.

 

[Texas Proud]

Here is another take on space encroachment. It focuses on buses/subways, but certainly pertains to aircraft too.

The "comments" section is funny. Somebody keeps asserting that the Male Anatomy demands extra seat room. Nobody else is having it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-madrid-officials-say/?utm_term=.298c83f67054

When I was in NY it was widespread also... it was horrible during rush hour since it was tough to get the last seat...

There was once I had to ask the guy to close his legs... he did so I could sit down and then spread them apart again... so I did the same and it was like a leg war for space...

 

[audreyh1]

Just got home from my redeye. A few days early, I decided to grab an exit row aisle seat, knowing my propensity for bathroom trips in the middle of the night. About $100, pricey, but exit row seats weren't going so I thought the middle might stay open. My original economy seat had a full row and no option to switch to another window or aisle. I had the chance to upgrade to 1st class, but it was going to be full so I took the chance I'd have an open seat next to me in the exit row. An hour before the flight the middle seat was still open on both sides of row 20 so my plan was looking great.

Boarded the plane, and not only the middle seat was taken, but so was mine! Oh h#ll no! I showed my boarding pass for 20C, and the guy in my seat got out his, and noticed he should be in 20D. I glanced over and saw the middle seat next to that still open, and said "No need to move, I'll just take D, OK?" He must've been half asleep because he agreed. I settled in and pulled my cap down and feigned a quick sleep so he wouldn't wise up and ask for his seat. I checked seating with my United phone app and sure enough, someone had grabbed 20B but 20E was one of 3 empty seats on the plane!

I guess everybody has their obsessions, one of mine is to try my best to have extra space on a flight. I got good enough sleep on the flight.

My thing about empty seats in economy plus, I that a middle set my paper to be empty, but at about 10 mins before boarding, the seat will be filled.

But if the plane is not completely full, we've often lucked out with an empty seat between us in e+.

 

[audreyh1]

For a few days before the flight, they were offerimg economy plus for 100+ more , but first class was an extra 1K. Eco+ fo this plane was just 2-3 inches more pitch though, not worth it IMO. 24 hours before the 1st class upgrade dropped t $250. Not great, but for a packed flight, I decided to go. For the redeye return I will probably do the same.

So, usually, I look righT at 24 hours before for the upgrade deal. If the seat in coach next to me were open, I would have stayed with it. I use seatguru.com to look at seat quality. One of the 2 remaing 1st class seats was bad due to no recline and by bathrooms, but I grabbed the other one.

Thanks much for your post, RunningBun, because you made me look!

It's a month before our flight to Europe, but this evening I decided to look at what they were offering for first/business class upgrade. When I originally booked I think they were offering (the quickie special offer right after you confirm) $3000-$4000 per person to upgrade. Too rich for me!

But now they offered ~$950 per person for each direction, or $1782 for upgrading both. So we bought the outbound direction upgrade which includes business class for the overnight leg (a 2-2-2 configuration with lie flat seats). We've never flown overnight international business class before.

The reservation blew up online with some scary errors yet my credit card was charged, and I had to call in to United Reservations to get it fixed. So it seemed pretty dicey for a while and I thought I had stumbled onto some system bug that offered me something they shouldn't, but they got it all squared away after several long phone waits.

I didn't want to wait until T-24 to check because of seat availability in Polaris business class. I know from past experience that on the international flights that business class seats are in high demand, and people with high status start clearing their requested upgrades at T-7 days. Meanwhile a lot of folks are on wait lists to upgrade with miles - something that also starts to clear several days ahead depending on status. Buy the way, to upgrade with miles for still costs $550 for each direction in addition to the miles, and then you go on a wait list, and only get upgraded if someone else doesn't outrank you in terms of status. So essentially we paid an extra $400 each to pay outright and get an immediate upgrade instead of using miles.