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Old 05-29-2013, 07:11 AM   #41
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As noted, the people I quoted have pre-school children, so they're in their late 20's/early 30's. They don't recall these things.
They also probably haven't tried raising children elsewhere. They likely will not find it any easier, but they are welcome to try and report back.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:36 AM   #42
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Quite frankly, DW and I are have been having similar discussions about moving. Not about conspiracies but about the change in culture in the US.

We know of three different couples who, once their kids got of school age left the US (New Zealand, Singapore, Australia) .

No conspiracy theorists or anything, they just don't like the evolving US culture for their kids. "It's no longer the country I grew up in" was one quote.
How are your friends' kids doing now? It must be so interesting for them. And how did they choose those countries? Was it hard to get permanent visas?
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:30 AM   #43
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Early-onset curmudgeonhood strikes again...
Wait a sec, what are the symptoms? I think I may have contracted a mild case of this!
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:36 PM   #44
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They also probably haven't tried raising children elsewhere. They likely will not find it any easier, but they are welcome to try and report back.
Too early to tell as all three have only left within the past two years. What they have reported back is that they've found a whole community of like minded Americans there.

Their concerns were varied, but the common theme seemed to be a general cultural erosion of respect for people in public, catering to the lowest common denominator, 'I'm a victim' mentality, the applauding of the likes of Jersey Shore and lack of personal responsibility.

DW and I lived in Europe for many years and still go back for a few months in the fall, we notice a really marked contrast when we get back to the US in how people generally behave, dress and interact. Always takes us a few weeks to get back to 'normal'.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #45
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If you are prone to conspiracy theories and paranoia it doesn't matter where you live, they'll still be out to get you.

The "Preppers" who spend thousands on bunkers, tinned goods and guns are on the fringe, but the rash of programs about them makes them seem main stream. There is plenty to complain about in the US, and plenty to be thankful for too. The US isn't going to implode, but it is changing and people react to that in lots of different ways.

FYI no matter where the Doctor in the OP goes (or indeed any US citizen) he will still have to deal with the warm embrace of the IRS.
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:13 PM   #46
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. It is easy to overreact to some of the nutty aspects of US culture.
Here in Illinois, it is easy to underreact to the ugly, corrupt, mismanaged and doomed condition of our state. It really is much, much worse than what is portrayed in the media. And the corruption and mismanagement is so pervasive, it's truly part of the established "culture."
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Old 05-29-2013, 01:47 PM   #47
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I think it is very likely that when I retire I will live abroad. It is not because I think America will collapse (but I will say that I think we are going downhill in many ways). I just think the world is much smaller than people realize and I think getting out and experiencing other cultures is a positive thing.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #48
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Quite frankly, DW and I are have been having similar discussions about moving. Not about conspiracies but about the change in culture in the US.

We know of three different couples who, once their kids got of school age left the US (New Zealand, Singapore, Australia) .

No conspiracy theorists or anything, they just don't like the evolving US culture for their kids. "It's no longer the country I grew up in" was one quote.

Knew some people from NZ and Oz... and everybody that I know that have gone there has had great things to say about NZ... almost all liked it better than Oz.... but all would be willing to live there..

My DW keeps talking about Belize, Costa Rica and sometimes Panama... but have added New Zealand and Australia to the list recently... we are planning on going on vacation in the next few years to check them out....
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:41 PM   #49
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It amazes me about the conspiracy theories here... when there are a lot of countries where they would be true... China, N. Korea, Russia, Iran, etc. etc... come to mind...
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:45 PM   #50
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Here in Illinois, it is easy to underreact to the ugly, corrupt, mismanaged and doomed condition of our state. It really is much, much worse than what is portrayed in the media. And the corruption and mismanagement is so pervasive, it's truly part of the established "culture."

And some have decided to take it nationally
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:45 PM   #51
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I'll be retiring to the UK (probably) even though I'm pretty depressed at the way the country is trending.....it's acquiring many of the aspects of the US that I don't like, but it still has some positives and the no cost to me health care is a big one, although that's under attack right now.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:50 PM   #52
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Let the crazies/haters/fearful leave -- with quickness.

I don't agree with everything done in the USA -- past or present -- but I contend that it is one of the best places to live on the earth. I think the USA embodies the MLK quote:

“The Arc of the Moral Universe Is Long, but It Bends Toward Justice”

That said, I wouldn't mind living in New Zealand, Canada, the Camaroons, or Hong Kong. The world has many lovely places and people.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #53
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In our travels fulltiming around the US we found huge cultural differences between states and even regions within states. One can probably find a more culturally compatible area if needed within the US. And even in a given location, you create your own culture by whom you choose to associate with and what you choose to watch/read.

We don't watch national news or mainstream TV or even major box office movies, so we aren't really exposed to the "homogenized" aspects of US culture. Some of the descriptions above don't feel familiar to me. But then again, we are living in our own little world.
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:31 PM   #54
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In our travels fulltiming around the US we found huge cultural differences between states and even regions within states. One can probably find a more culturally compatible area if needed within the US. ...
Definitely. I don't know families that left the US to raise their children by choice, but I know two who moved from the Chicago suburbs to very rural areas and a less intense lifestyle once their children reached the middle grades. Much like one might do in retirement, not always necessary to go far to change one's life.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:27 PM   #55
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And some have decided to take it nationally
Naughty person!
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:31 PM   #56
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In our travels fulltiming around the US we found huge cultural differences between states and even regions within states. One can probably find a more culturally compatible area if needed within the US. And even in a given location, you create your own culture by whom you choose to associate with and what you choose to watch/read.
+1, but I would delete the word "probably."
With a lifetime of travel behind me, I firmly believe that the range of possible social environments is unlimited.

Here in the USA, you could even divide it in half along the Mississippi River and find the whole spectrum in each half.

IMHO there is no real reason to have to emigrate; those folks simply haven't taken the time to investigate the possibilities at home.
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Old 05-29-2013, 06:59 PM   #57
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Their concerns were varied, but the common theme seemed to be a general cultural erosion of respect for people in public, catering to the lowest common denominator, 'I'm a victim' mentality, the applauding of the likes of Jersey Shore and lack of personal responsibility.
.
Ah. Find a community without any TV reception or cable service. That'll help.

And for those who do have cable, think of what happens when folks are raised seeing the residents of "Jersey Shore" or "Myrtle Manor" as successful people in life. They've got their own TV series, so they must be doing really well, right?
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:23 PM   #58
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Ah. Find a community without any TV reception or cable service. That'll help.

And for those who do have cable, think of what happens when folks are raised seeing the residents of "Jersey Shore" or "Myrtle Manor" as successful people in life. They've got their own TV series, so they must be doing really well, right?
I happen to live in a very polite area, so I'm always amazed when people talk about how rude and obnoxious people are in the US.

But then again, I don't turn on and watch the junk on TV (or radio). I do see quite a bit of cr*p on the internet, but that's easy to ignore/avoid.

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Old 05-29-2013, 08:06 PM   #59
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+1, but I would delete the word "probably."
With a lifetime of travel behind me, I firmly believe that the range of possible social environments is unlimited.

Here in the USA, you could even divide it in half along the Mississippi River and find the whole spectrum in each half.

IMHO there is no real reason to have to emigrate; those folks simply haven't taken the time to investigate the possibilities at home.
This is minor but very annoying to me. I live in a small town, and this occurs naturally here, but I cannot stand it when people do not give you personal space when walking or do not follow any etiquette at all when walking. I have been to a few major metropolitan areas in Midwest and it still isn't too bad. People as a general rule do not run you over, cut you off, and do say thank you when you open door for them into a restaurant, store, or hotel. Vegas in the strip area,however is another story. People walking around there act like they own the whole area, cutting you off, no courtesy etc. I go out there quite often, and have changed my attitude. Whenever someone tries to cut me off walking from a bad angle or zig zagging all over walk area because their face is buried in their phone, I do not defer anymore. I brace my side, let them have it with the body check and say "excuse you". I don't put up with it anymore. Well I do defer sometimes if they look like they are capable of kicking my butt even if I am in the right.
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Old 05-29-2013, 09:03 PM   #60
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America has issues - but so does every other country on this planet.
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