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Old 02-20-2012, 01:14 PM   #221
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #222
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Hi REWahoo,

Thanks !

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Old 02-20-2012, 01:24 PM   #223
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People who say that the US health care system is working just fine are most likely (a) working for a large company with good benefits or (b) on Medicare. Try being self-employed, working part-time or unemployed and see how you like it.

I was born in Ireland and worked in the UK. My DH became an Irish citizen so we have a backup plan in case of catastrophic or chronic illness (and we have health insurance - but you know how that works if you ever saw Michael Moore's health care documentary). With the new law where you can't lose your insurance due to a small technicality when you get sick, we rest a little easier. But the idea that insurance needs to be tied to employment is just plain nuts.
I agreed with you.

The US health care system doesn't take care of some 50 millions people, so I wonder how the other 220 millions (?) feel about it ?

Feel lucky ? Yes
But the other 50 millions don't get health insurance or some very very basic 3rd world care ! I think it is sad !

And I think the Canadian health care system is a much fairer system. The prime minister or the seniors or the unemployed get the same treatment !
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:35 PM   #224
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Hi,

I am from Toronto Canada, just registered and testing ...

and hi Modhatter !
Snowbird, welcome to the forum. Why not stop by here to tell us abou yourself
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #225
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Anyone for single payer system like Canada?

Everybody is covered, less stress?
Yes ! Everybody is cover.

I have NO stress regarding health care, my budget for health care is $0 or next to nothing

In Canada (universal health care):
- Doctors visit: No charges
- Specialists: No charges and doctors will refer to the right specialists b/c universal health care.
- If no company health plan: Doctors will prescribe generic drugs instead of brand name drugs.
- Hospital stay: $0
- ER: $0
- Home care for seniors or the disabled (as needed, recommended by doctors/specialists/hospitals): $0
- Ambulance service: $0 for those 65 or over and the disabled or on welfare.
- Prescription drugs: Min charge (a few bucks) for 90 days for 65 or over.
- OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance): Cover out-of-Ontario (other provinces are similar) medical insurance for 7 months (used to be 6 months in Ontario but now the province extended to 7 months).

Our employment medical/dental plan and extension until death: Co pay $50/person/year for prescription drugs, co pay 20% dental plan
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:44 PM   #226
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Snowbird, welcome to the forum. Why not stop by here to tell us abou yourself
Hi MichaelB !
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #227
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Hi Snowbird100. So glad you came over. You will find here that some people are very much in favor of change, with varying views of how we should do it. Some people will be very negative and feel resentful and will call it wealth distribution, and feel covering everyone under some form of universal plan will take away from those who have earned it, and give it to people who haven't. We can't talk political parties here and have to stay on topic, so to avoid any mud slinging from opposing political party views.

I hope you will take the time to read some of the posts on here and comment where you can from your own personal experience. It is a hot topic, as you can tell, and many people feel passionate about it, as it is a big
factor in most everyone's life, and many life decisions are based on the health insurance problems and costs we face here.
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:52 PM   #228
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Hi Snowbird100. So glad you came over. You will find here that some people are very much in favor of change, with varying views of how we should do it. Some people will be very negative and feel resentful and will call it wealth distribution, and feel covering everyone under some form of universal plan will take away from those who have earned it, and give it to people who haven't. We can't talk political parties here and have to stay on topic, so to avoid any mud slinging from opposing political parties.

I hope you will take the time to read some of the posts on here and comment where you can from your own personal experience. It is a hot topic, as you can tell, and many people feel passionate about it, as it is a big
factor in most everyone's life, and many life decisions are based on the health insurance problems and costs we face here.
Hi Modhatter,

I am on page 2 and will take time to read all the pages ...

I think the society will be more harmonised if everybody is covered, no people will have to worry about no health care when they get old ... Yes it is somehow weath distribution (Canada, the UK, 1st world countries in Europe) but WHY NOT ? Take a little bit from the weathy and share it with the poor who needs health care, I have no problem with that at all !
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #229
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During the debate about Obamacare a couple of years back I decided to do my own research on health care systems around the world. Having lived in Europe I know for a fact, or at least to my own satisfaction that their quality of care is at least as good as ours.

Europe spends about 14% of GDP on health care

USA spends about 17%.

I believe the extra 3% here comes from inefficiencies and from poor health choices. If we cut out 90% of the paperwork and finger-pointing about what is covered, who pays, what is preexisting, etc. and if people ate better diets and exercised, we'd probably cover that 3% spread and then some.

But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, and pontificate about "them socialists" in France than actually try to address the root of the problem!
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Old 02-20-2012, 01:59 PM   #230
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Snowbird, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know our health system is in need of some serious improvement. The positive aspects of your health care system you enthusiastically describe are indeed wonderful.

But It should also not take a rocket scientist to know stepping into someones house to point out - with the best of intentions - how much nicer your house is than theirs might not meet with the warmest of receptions. The US and Canada are far different in how they view this subject.

Diplomacy is an art even some rocket scientists can't master.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #231
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, ...
Uh oh. You're in trouble now...
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:02 PM   #232
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Welcome to the site Snowbird, there are quite a few Canadians here so we all have a good feel about how the Canadian Health system works and how well regarded it is.

I hope you'll tell us more about yourself in the "Hi, I am" forum, and explore some of the other forums here.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #233
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Why? You're paying considerably more while 45 million of your fellow Americans go under insured or completely without health care. You don't think most Americans are totally oblivious to what US health care costs them or the various ways they pay dearly - for poorer outcomes?
That's one of the problems: Americans are paying considerably more while 45 millions of Americans go under insured ...

Here's some of the reasons:
- Doctors in the US get paid at least double what Canadians doctors get.
- Private hospitals FOR PROFIT (Canada: No private hospitals, all non profit).
- Procedures cost more.
- Unnecessary procedures (some might argue): Why do I or Canadians know about these unnecessary procedures done by US hospitals and doctors ? Here's the answer:

We Canadians always joke about when we are "hospitalised" in the States, say Florida for some minor accidents, and as soon as the hospitals found out we are Canadians they treat us like "king" when they found out we had top up insurance. When we wanted to be discharged from the hospital, the doctor/hospital would say: Oh no no, we will have to run more tests to make sure ... (you get what I mean). Those tests/procedures are absolutely redundant in Canada !
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:07 PM   #234
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During the debate about Obamacare a couple of years back I decided to do my own research on health care systems around the world. Having lived in Europe I know for a fact, or at least to my own satisfaction that their quality of care is at least as good as ours.

Europe spends about 14% of GDP on health care

USA spends about 17%.

I believe the extra 3% here comes from inefficiencies and from poor health choices. If we cut out 90% of the paperwork and finger-pointing about what is covered, who pays, what is preexisting, etc. and if people ate better diets and exercised, we'd probably cover that 3% spread and then some.

But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, and pontificate about "them socialists" in France than actually try to address the root of the problem!
I will add one more "inefficiency": Hospitals for PROFIT !
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:07 PM   #235
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Hi Modhatter,

I am on page 2 and will take time to read all the pages ...

I think the society will be more harmonised if everybody is covered, no people will have to worry about no health care when they get old ... Yes it is somehow weath distribution (Canada, the UK, 1st world countries in Europe) but WHY NOT ? Take a little bit from the weathy and share it with the poor who needs health care, I have no problem with that at all !
Hi Snowbird100 - I think that some of your observations are based on a distorted view of how some of us in the US think about this.


Quote:
The US health care system doesn't take care of some 50 millions people, ...
This is not true. If someone needs treatment they get it. You don't see the gutters in front of hospitals and ERs lined with dead/dying. It's not just emergency services either, I know people who have received excellent treatment for things like tendinitis surgery, with no out-of-pocket cost.

That is not to defend our system. I am one of the many who feels we need change, big changes. The recent bill that was passed does not address many of the issues that people on both sides of the political spectrum agree with (cut the link between employment and health insurance being one important one).

I don't think it is so much that we are afraid of change, but many of us feel we have reason to be afraid of the kind of changes our political system comes up with (that is meant to be totally non-partisan).

I think a nationalized health care system would be an easier pill to swallow (pun intended!) if we had more faith in our governmental system. Polls consistently put Congress approval ratings in single or low double digits. I think people are being generous


edit: forgot to comment on the Wealth Redistribution hot button - Our current system involves wealth redistribution; people w/o means are treated for free, some people decide to 'go naked' and don't pay for insurance. Others end up paying their bill through higher charges. A well run nationalized system could actually reduce the wealth redistribution aspect by not allowing those who can afford to pay to opt out (but still be accepted at the ER when trouble comes their way)

-ERD50
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #236
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Welcome to the site Snowbird, there are quite a few Canadians here so we all have a good feel about how the Canadian Health system works and how well regarded it is.

I hope you'll tell us more about yourself in the "Hi, I am" forum, and explore some of the other forums here.
Hi Alan,

Will catch up ... I am still on page 2 ...
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #237
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Hi Snowbird100 - I think that some of your observations are based on a distorted view of how some of us in the US think about this.




This is not true. If someone needs treatment they get it. You don't see the gutters in front of hospitals and ERs lined with dead/dying. It's not just emergency services either, I know people who have received excellent treatment for things like tendinitis surgery, with no out-of-pocket cost.

That is not to defend our system. I am one of the many who feels we need change, big changes. The recent bill that was passed does not address many of the issues that people on both sides of the political spectrum agree with (cut the link between employment and health insurance being one important one).

I don't think it is so much that we are afraid of change, but many of us feel we have reason to be afraid of the kind of changes our political system comes up with (that is meant to be totally non-partisan).

I think a nationalized health care system would be an easier pill to swallow (pun intended!) if we had more faith in our governmental system. Polls consistently put Congress approval ratings in single or low double digits. I think people are being generous


edit: forgot to comment on the Wealth Redistribution hot button - Our current system involves wealth redistribution; people w/o means are treated for free, some people decide to 'go naked' and don;t pay for insurance. Others end up paying. A well run nationalized system could actually reduce the wealth redistribution aspect by not allowing those who can afford to pay to opt out (but still be accepted at the ER when trouble comes their way)

-ERD50
Hi,

I have no preference on the American system b/c it doesn't affect me.

But for argument sake, isn't somehow there's some kind of resistance to block the wealth distribution, and that's why 45 million Americans are under insured or have no insurance at all ?

I know they (no insurance) will get treatment in ER, but according what I learnt, only ER; And Americans could go bankrupt b/c of medical costs. How can you explain that ? I think there's a fundamental problem with the American health care system, frankly !
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #238
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ERD,

I think that last post of yours is a good summary of how many of us feel.

Thanks
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:21 PM   #239
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Hi,

I have no preference on the American system b/c it doesn't affect me.

But for argument sake, isn't somehow there's some kind of resistance to block the wealth distribution, and that's why 45 million Americans are under insured or have no insurance at all ?

I know they (no insurance) will get treatment in ER, but according what I learnt, only ER; And Americans could go bankrupt b/c of medical costs. How can you explain that ? I think there's a fundamental problem with the American health care system, frankly !
This thread has survived a very long time without undue political rhetoric causing it to be closed.

You've said your piece, now please drop it.
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Old 02-20-2012, 02:29 PM   #240
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Ooppsss !
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