$15 to drive into new york city

[frank]

I was watching the news with David Muir the other night and they reported that the city of new york was going to start charging 15. for people to go to downtown new york city in order to ease congestion and help pay for the infrastructure. They are going to use cameras to enforce the law. My question is if new york can do this what will be the next move? Can this spread to smaller and less populated areas? can governments charge you to use tax payer funded roadways anyway they see fit?

 

[braumeister]

The central part of London has had a £15 congestion charge since 2003, and Singapore has had one since 1975.
So yes, this will probably spread to other big cities.

 

[Nash]

They are gonna have to pay me much more than $15 to go to NYC.

 

[Markola]

Probably an interim step on the way to everyone using robo taxis, which will also eliminate the need for parking ramps, lots and spaces in congested cities.

 

[frank]

The central part of London has had a £15 congestion charge since 2003, and Singapore has had one since 1975.
So yes, this will probably spread to other big cities.

so this is not something new? it is the first I heard of it. it just seems crazy that they can charge you to use the streets our tax dollars are already paying for.

 

[Surewhitey]

I wonder how the new flow of bodies will affect business and local economy. The delivery trucks will tack on fees, prices of food and services will likely increase. It'll be interesting to hear of the long-term consequences.

I'd personally never live in states that continually find ways to tax it's citizens at this point in life. Death by a thousand cuts...

In Dallas, they are debating extending a McD's drive through permit for the only downtown fast food company with an actual drive through. I never knew that was a thing. If it's already there, why not? Maybe they want to push them out for the expansion of the high rise building that could bring more taxes in? At least this is not a burden on the populace...

 

[Andre1969]

Don't they already make you pay to drive into Manhattan, anyway? I've only been there twice, by way of bus, but I'd imagine that every single bridge is a toll bridge.

Oops, thinking back on it, make that thrice. First two times, I drove to Jersey and then took a train in. Third time was by bus.

 

[Gumby]

.... can governments charge you to use tax payer funded roadways anyway they see fit?

Yes, even though tax money does go into into building and maintaining those roads, the government can charge a user fee. It's no different than the tolls on I-95 all up and down the east coast (except for Connecticut) or entry fees to national parks. And while we all benefit from having roads (to get food to the grocery store, for example) so we all should pay taxes to support them, I think it's fair that people who do actually use the roads personally should pay more.

I wouldn't drive into New York in any event. It's too much of a hassle. When I worked there, I always commuted by train.

Don't they already make you pay to drive into Manhattan, anyway? I've only been there twice, by way of bus, but I'd imagine that every single bridge is a toll bridge.

Oops, thinking back on it, make that thrice. First two times, I drove to Jersey and then took a train in. Third time was by bus.

The bridges and and tunnels crossing the Hudson River only charge a toll going into NYC from New Jersey. They don't charge when you are outbound from NYC (ie - charge coming east, no charge going west).

 

[pjm-7]

It's probably needed to control congestion and encourage use of mass transit. The national parks charge and some have timed entry to control congestion. I would rather go to a national park than NYC. IMO.��

 

[Markola]

Sounds great to me. Reducing cars also reduces the ramps, lots and spaces required to park them, pollution and noise.

It’s probably a step toward rechargeable autonomous robo taxis, after the tech is worked out and scaled through market forces.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/01/23/1086936/whats-next-for-robotaxis-2024/

 

[Closet_Gamer]

The central part of London has had a £15 congestion charge since 2003, and Singapore has had one since 1975.
So yes, this will probably spread to other big cities.

London's morphed into a ludicrous money grab.

Congestion turned into an additional emmissions charge if you aren't driving the right kind of car. These charges stack. Then they realized that even more of the city was "congested" so the zones got bigger. Then they realized cameras can also measure speed. So they made them traffic cameras and, amazingly, decided that in addition to the insane British love affair with "speed humps" to control speed they neededt to lower the speeds in certain areas. Shockingly, those areas had speed cameras.

A few years back the city wizards decided that they needed a new zone to cover even more of the city, stretching out into areas more properly classified as suburbs. These are areas where people are really reliant on cars. That's when a revolt started. Someone did the math and pointed out that between congestion and emissions, there were 150k people in that zone who would now be charged 27 pounds to leave their driveway each day. Everyone else would only pay 15 pounds/day to leave their driveway.

The city relented on the new zone.

But they didn't give up. More recently, they decided that people needed to be better about taking trains to Heathrow. They instituted a 5 pound charge for driving into Heathrow for 90 seconds to drop someone off for a flight. If you didn't register before the drop off, or within a few days afterwards, the fee is 40 pounds. (That they did this near the end of Covid, when the airport really was struggling for revenue, was a pure coincidence. This was about the environment and livabilty!)

These things will grow like weeds. Pfizer should get to work on a camera vaccine.

 

[pjm-7]

This fee is to reduce congestion and encourage the use of mass transit. The national parks charge to enter and some have timed entry to control congestion. I would rather visit a national park than NYC. IMO

 

[aja8888]

The real question is:

How much will they (NYC) charge you to leave?

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I think a lot of you realize this, but this applies only to Manhattan, not all of NYC. I've always avoided driving into Manhattan since I first learned to drive in 1987 as a teenager from Queens, it's a PITA to drive and park, and the subway is (mostly) fast and reliable. Even when I drove up there to try a road trip in my EV last November, I parked at my friend's house in Flushing and took a Lyft over to my hotel (also in Flushing), and the tolls (bridges and NJ Turnpike) were a lot more than $15. (Gumby, it's been decades, but the NY/NJ bridges and tunnels all have tolls, but it used to be the 59th street bridge didn't when I did live there.) We all took the train to Times Square for WhiskyFest, then a hired car to drop us off, as we've been doing for many years.

 

[Car-Guy]

The real question is:

How much will they (NYC) charge you to leave?

Trust me, I'll never find out!

On second thought, maybe nothing, since they got it all while you were in the city.

 

[Gumby]

..(Gumby, it's been decades, but the NY/NJ bridges and tunnels all have tolls, but it used to be the 59th street bridge didn't when I did live there.) ....

I mostly know about the Hudson river crossings, which charge only when you are going eastbound (Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, George Washington Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge). I'm not that familiar with the East River crossings, except the Whitestone Bridge, which I believe does charge both ways.

 

[MdaPetralia]

I was watching the news with David Muir the other night and they reported that the city of new york was going to start charging 15. for people to go to downtown new york city in order to ease congestion and help pay for the infrastructure. They are going to use cameras to enforce the law. My question is if new york can do this what will be the next move? Can this spread to smaller and less populated areas? can governments charge you to use tax payer funded roadways anyway they see fit?

Never mind roadways, in Venice, Italy this summer they plan on implementing a €5 fee for day-trippers just to enter/walk the city.

 

[Qs Laptop]

it just seems crazy that they can charge you to use the streets our tax dollars are already paying for.

Oh, that bird has flown a long time ago. Consider these...

 

[Closet_Gamer]

This fee is to reduce congestion and encourage the use of mass transit. The national parks charge to enter and some have timed entry to control congestion. I would rather visit a national park than NYC. IMO

I hear you and understand the point. Using price to constrain demand is sensible.

I just don’t think it will stay this way. It will morph just like London’s did.

One more reason not to go to NYC. This will find its way into Uber charges and the like. The NYC subway is a complete mess right now. Fix that and you won’t have trouble with demand for subway rides.

NYC and CA have both decided that people who go there for business purposes even a handful of days now owe them income taxes for those days. And they are targeting execs with audits if companies that have big operations in one state but an HQ in another.

Near the end of my job, I solved the problem. I just declined to attend anything in person in CA or NYC. I’m sure their restaurants and hotels appreciate that. But it’s OK, the govt helped them too by tacking on hotel and visitors taxes.

 

[easysurfer]

I miss the good old days when paying for toll and parking was as simple as reaching into my pocket and dumping in some coins in a meter.

 

[scrabbler1]

Don't they already make you pay to drive into Manhattan, anyway? I've only been there twice, by way of bus, but I'd imagine that every single bridge is a toll bridge.

Oops, thinking back on it, make that thrice. First two times, I drove to Jersey and then took a train in. Third time was by bus.

The Hudson River crossings connecting New Jersey have one-way tolls (heading into NYC), as others have pointed out. Some of the East River crossings from Brooklyn and Queens into Manhattan are free; others have each-way tolls.

It looks like they chose 60th Street as the cutoff for tolling because that's where the Queensboro Bridge (a free one) enters Manhattan. If someone is heading over that bridge and heading north, they should not be getting hit with the new toll. Also, there is supposedly an exemption for those riding on the limited-access FDR Drive and not-as-limited-access West Side Highway (West Street) which has traffic lights.

I'm just glad I have no reason to ever go into Manhattan any more. The last time I drove into Manhattan south of 60th Street was on a Saturday morning in 2003, on my way to Jersey City, New Jersey.

 

[jollystomper]

I mostly know about the Hudson river crossings, which charge only when you are going eastbound (Holland Tunnel, Lincoln Tunnel, George Washington Bridge, Tappan Zee Bridge). I'm not that familiar with the East River crossings, except the Whitestone Bridge, which I believe does charge both ways.

Here is the current info on the bridges with tolls:

https://www.whichnyc.com/which-nyc-bridges-have-tolls/

 

[jollystomper]

One of our sons is getting a graduate degree from NYU in May. Knowing how bad it was driving in Manhattan almost 2 years ago, we plan to BTD for train and hotel to attend the ceremony .

 

[aaronc879]

They are gonna have to pay me much more than $15 to go to NYC.

This is what I was going to post.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

The NYC subway is a complete mess right now. Fix that and you won’t have trouble with demand for subway rides.

In what way? I still go back 1-3 times a year, and I still take the subway all the time (when I don't take the bus or the LIRR), and have never had any issues.

I miss the good old days when paying for toll and parking was as simple as reaching into my pocket and dumping in some coins in a meter.

I don't! I remember having to remember to have coins, and I was a very early adopter of EZ-Pass, I think I got my first one in the 90s. And now I love when I can use Google Pay for meters and parking lots.