Health care?

[Birchwood]

Anyone for single payer system like Canada?

Everybody is covered, less stress?

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

Doesn't work. No thanks.

 

[palomalou]

Doesn't work. No thanks.

Documentation?

 

[Nords]

Anyone for single payer system like Canada?
Everybody is covered, less stress?

You would think that with all the wildly successful single-payer systems in the world then at least one of them would catch on here and spread uncontrollably.

Or possibly they're not as wildly successful as we're led to believe.

 

[Major Tom]

As much as the Brits grumble about their NHS, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let anyone take it away from them.

I bet that if we had a single-payer system here, folk would be the same - they'd grumble about the inefficiencies and claim to hate it, but would unite in defense if anyone were to threaten it's existence.

 

[M Paquette]

Doesn't work. No thanks.

Yeah. It's been pretty bad, especially now that all the doctors fled the country, and the provincial governments agreed to ship all the old people to Ellesmere Island when they get sick.

And you know, some of the remaining medical folks don't even speak French! I hear complaints all the time from Cousin Gerald in Quebec.

Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...

 

[FIREd]

Anyone for single payer system like Canada?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[MichaelB]

Yeah. It's been pretty bad, especially now that all the doctors fled the country, and the provincial governments agreed to ship all the old people to Ellesmere Island when they get sick.

And you know, some of the remaining medical folks don't even speak French! I hear complaints all the time from Cousin Gerald in Quebec.

Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...

What could possibly go wrong with this thread?

 

[l2ridehd]

The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive. You get what you pay for. And as for Canada's? Yes it works well, but a lot of Canadians cross the border to use the US system if they can afford to. Less wait and better care.

I have two rental properties in Florida. Over 80% of my tenants are from Canada or the UK. They all wait until they are here to get any elective work done. Home it's free, here they pay. Makes you wonder why if it's so good at home.

Any health care system in any country gets the government more involved and control over your life. I for one want less involvement, less control, less government.

 

[Midpack]

The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive. You get what you pay for.

What prompts you to say the US is the best? We are indeed the most expensive by far, almost 50% higher cost per capita than the second most expensive country (Norway) and well over double the average for all developed countries. And the highest as a % of GDP. Yet we're 36th in the world for life expectancy and 34th for infant mortality. I don't doubt the US was once the best, but still - on what basis?

Seems odd that every other developed country has cost effectively gone to some form of universal health care. I don't see the value in our "system" at all, and I am a lifelong conservative.

List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by infant mortality rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mulligan]

That "bacon on the hoof" comment made me laugh outloud! At this present moment in time, in my own self interest, I like the present way as my HSA tax deduction more than covers my premium, so I continue to have " free" health insurance. If health issues ever crop up, Im sure I will change my tune. That being said, it our country ever did go to universal plan, I only hope the tax scheme is somthing like a national sales tax or VAAT. My reason being is that everyone should have to pay for their free health care, IMHO. If income taxes are the method of payment, not everyone will have a skin in the game. I am not trying to awaken Porky who is currently napping in his mud pit.

 

[Chuckanut]

I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their systems have problems, but they know that one way or the other they will get care and they won't have to sell the farm to pay for it.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.

 

[REWahoo]

Mmmmm... I smell bacon on the hoof...

On the hoof? I thought all pigs rode hogs?

 

[Mulligan]

I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their system has problems but so does ours, especially if one can't afford insurance.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.

I apoligize for temporarily derailing thread, but your comment on Italy remind me of their ex-leaders quote this week. I couldnt imagine one our presidents saying this in public.
Silvio Berlusconi: ‘I’m Not a Playboy, I’m a Playman’
Italy's corrupt cartoon satyr of a former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi is still rattling around, being Berlusconish: "I'm not a Playboy, I'm a Play-uomo [Playman] … The only thing I have not been accused of in all these over-hyped descriptions of my relations with women, with the opposite sex, the only thing they have never accused me of is being gay. I have nothing against homosexuals, let it be clear. Quite the contrary. I always thought the more gay people around, the less competition." [Atlantic, image via Getty]

 

[Major Tom]

The US health care is the best in the world and the most expensive.

But approximately 50 million people aren't insured. The healthcare itself might be pretty good, but our system for giving people access to it needs some work.

I do have more to say, but know full well that I am dancing on the edge on a thread that may be asking to get shut down in the very near future, so I'll behave myself.

Incidentally, for those who can afford it in the UK and Canada, there is also the option to pay and get your healthcare privately. My Mum was scheduled for a hip replacement in the UK, but my father didn't want her to wait the 18 months so he paid for to have it done privately. Her need wasn't life-threatening, so they would have made her wait - but at least if my parents hadn't had the money, she would eventually have had the surgery.

 

[james7]

I have yet to meet a UK citizen or a Canadian who would trade their system for ours. Not one. Yes, their systems have problems, but they know that one way or the other they will get care and they won't have to sell the farm to pay for it.

My friend in Italy likes to remind me that while Italy devotes 7% of its GNP to health care compared to our 15%, Italian men live about three years longer than US men.

The fact that Italian men live about three years longer on average than American men says more about Italian life and culture than their health care system. We must remember that Italy does not have the epidemics of crime, drugs, and alcohol that we do here in the states, and their cities are not the war zones that ours are.

 

[PaddyMac]

People who say that the US health care system is working just fine are most likely (a) working for a large company with good benefits or (b) on Medicare. Try being self-employed, working part-time or unemployed and see how you like it.

I was born in Ireland and worked in the UK. My DH became an Irish citizen so we have a backup plan in case of catastrophic or chronic illness (and we have health insurance - but you know how that works if you ever saw Michael Moore's health care documentary). With the new law where you can't lose your insurance due to a small technicality when you get sick, we rest a little easier. But the idea that insurance needs to be tied to employment is just plain nuts.

 

[marko]

A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...

 

[Midpack]

A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...

Why? You're paying considerably more while 45 million of your fellow Americans go under insured or completely without health care. You don't think most Americans are totally oblivious to what US health care costs them or the various ways they pay dearly - for poorer outcomes?

 

[Alan]

Incidentally, for those who can afford it in the UK and Canada, there is also the option to pay and get your healthcare privately. My Mum was scheduled for a hip replacement in the UK, but my father didn't want her to wait the 18 months so he paid for to have it done privately. Her need wasn't life-threatening, so they would have made her wait - but at least if my parents hadn't had the money, she would eventually have had the surgery.

I've said this several times before that in the UK the NHS is not the only option, and many people have private health insurance so they can get elective treatment without waiting. The companies I worked for in the 70's and 80's, before I came to the USA, provided health insurance as a benefit.

When we went to the UK last year for 7 months I contacted Blue Cross to check on coverage and I was covered for any doctor visit plus they told which was the closest in-plan private hospital (it was only 10 miles from the small market town we were staying in)

A lady was telling me about the health care in the UK and how her friend went to the hospital and "...it didn't cost anything...".

I said: "Well...SOMEBODY paid for it..."

She said: "Yes...the government! They've got plenty of money!"

I had to walk away...

Single payer systems paid for by taxes are only free at point of service and many folks forget that. I've even seen a political commentator on the TV telling people to make full use of libraries because they are free.

I am personally in favor of universal health coverage but think the US would be better served using a universal private insurance system and there are several countries who have this type of system in place.

However, what is common among all the countries that have universal coverage regardless of single payer or competing insurance companies is that the government sets price controls, and all health insurance companies have to be non-profit.

 

[Letj]

Anyone for single payer system like Canada?

Everybody is covered, less stress?

Yes me mostly because I am fed up of keeping track of all the medical bills. I don't want to see another piece of paper. I recently had a procedure and I received separate bills from 2 doctors, two labs, an anesthesiologist, hospital, etc. It was maddening. Quite frankly, I don't know how older people keep up with all.

 

[Alan]

Yes me mostly because I am fed up of keeping track of all the medical bills. I don't want to see another piece of paper. I recently had a procedure and I received separate bills from 2 doctors, two labs, an anesthesiologist, hospital, etc. It was maddening. Quite frankly, I don't know how older people keep up with all.

I'm sure many older folks can't keep up with the bills, it's hard enough for us younger folks.

Some while back we would get fliers from our company insurance firm, BCBS, asking us to help them keep costs down by checking all the bills against the Explanation Of Benefits (EOB) forms we'd get. However, it is impossible to do so since the EOB's don't list the individual tests and procedures that have been performed. There was one occaision when I had to pay much more than normal on a co-pay for a new crown and when I talked to our company rep she looked into it and saw that it had been mis-coded and the EOB was wrong. If the EOB would list the codes at the minimum, or at best decscribe each line item, it would help a lot.

 

[marko]

Why? You're paying considerably more while 45 million of your fellow Americans go under insured or completely without health care. You don't think most Americans are totally oblivious to what US health care costs them or the various ways they pay dearly - for poorer outcomes?

The point I was trying to make (apparently poorly) is that she didn't see the connection between her taxes and the government paying for the health care.

 

[Major Tom]

I am personally in favor of universal health coverage but think the US would be better served using a universal private insurance system and there are several countries who have this type of system in place.

However, what is common among all the countries that have universal coverage regardless of single payer or competing insurance companies is that the government sets price controls, and all health insurance companies have to be non-profit.

Agreed, and this debate has been so heavily politicized in the US that I think many Americans would be surprised to know that regardless of which political party they support, the majority of UK citizens want their National Health Service. My parents voted Conservative and were big supporters of the NHS.

 

[Midpack]

The point I was trying to make (apparently poorly) is that she didn't see the connection between her taxes and the government paying for the health care.

Understood, and most Americans are equally clueless. Health care to most Americans are their payroll contributions and out-of-pocket costs. In general, that's a small fraction of what they actually pay through taxes and markups in products & services they purchase (funding employer health care contributions). The cost per capita in the UK is lower than the US, if anything US citizens aren't 'seeing the connection.'

Agreed, and this debate has been so heavily politicized in the US that I think many Americans would be surprised to know that regardless of which political party they support, the majority of UK citizens want their National Health Service. My parents voted Conservative and were big supporters of the NHS.

While it has been 'heavily politicized in the US' - the lack of awareness of how much US citizens actually pay (above) seems to me the biggest reason the mainstream population doesn't get charged up about it. Others have made the point here many times before...