Snowbird100
Dryer sheet wannabe
Hi MichaelB !Snowbird, welcome to the forum. Why not stop by here to tell us abou yourself
Hi MichaelB !Snowbird, welcome to the forum. Why not stop by here to tell us abou yourself
Hi Modhatter,Hi Snowbird100. So glad you came over. You will find here that some people are very much in favor of change, with varying views of how we should do it. Some people will be very negative and feel resentful and will call it wealth distribution, and feel covering everyone under some form of universal plan will take away from those who have earned it, and give it to people who haven't. We can't talk political parties here and have to stay on topic, so to avoid any mud slinging from opposing political parties.
I hope you will take the time to read some of the posts on here and comment where you can from your own personal experience. It is a hot topic, as you can tell, and many people feel passionate about it, as it is a big
factor in most everyone's life, and many life decisions are based on the health insurance problems and costs we face here.
Uh oh. You're in trouble now...But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, ...
That's one of the problems: Americans are paying considerably more while 45 millions of Americans go under insured ...Why? You're paying considerably more while 45 million of your fellow Americans go under insured or completely without health care. You don't think most Americans are totally oblivious to what US health care costs them or the various ways they pay dearly - for poorer outcomes?
I will add one more "inefficiency": Hospitals for PROFIT !During the debate about Obamacare a couple of years back I decided to do my own research on health care systems around the world. Having lived in Europe I know for a fact, or at least to my own satisfaction that their quality of care is at least as good as ours.
Europe spends about 14% of GDP on health care
USA spends about 17%.
I believe the extra 3% here comes from inefficiencies and from poor health choices. If we cut out 90% of the paperwork and finger-pointing about what is covered, who pays, what is preexisting, etc. and if people ate better diets and exercised, we'd probably cover that 3% spread and then some.
But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, and pontificate about "them socialists" in France than actually try to address the root of the problem!
Hi Modhatter,
I am on page 2 and will take time to read all the pages ...
I think the society will be more harmonised if everybody is covered, no people will have to worry about no health care when they get old ... Yes it is somehow weath distribution (Canada, the UK, 1st world countries in Europe) but WHY NOT ? Take a little bit from the weathy and share it with the poor who needs health care, I have no problem with that at all !
The US health care system doesn't take care of some 50 millions people, ...
Hi Alan,Welcome to the site Snowbird, there are quite a few Canadians here so we all have a good feel about how the Canadian Health system works and how well regarded it is.
I hope you'll tell us more about yourself in the "Hi, I am" forum, and explore some of the other forums here.
Hi,Hi Snowbird100 - I think that some of your observations are based on a distorted view of how some of us in the US think about this.
This is not true. If someone needs treatment they get it. You don't see the gutters in front of hospitals and ERs lined with dead/dying. It's not just emergency services either, I know people who have received excellent treatment for things like tendinitis surgery, with no out-of-pocket cost.
That is not to defend our system. I am one of the many who feels we need change, big changes. The recent bill that was passed does not address many of the issues that people on both sides of the political spectrum agree with (cut the link between employment and health insurance being one important one).
I don't think it is so much that we are afraid of change, but many of us feel we have reason to be afraid of the kind of changes our political system comes up with (that is meant to be totally non-partisan).
I think a nationalized health care system would be an easier pill to swallow (pun intended!) if we had more faith in our governmental system. Polls consistently put Congress approval ratings in single or low double digits. I think people are being generous
edit: forgot to comment on the Wealth Redistribution hot button - Our current system involves wealth redistribution; people w/o means are treated for free, some people decide to 'go naked' and don;t pay for insurance. Others end up paying. A well run nationalized system could actually reduce the wealth redistribution aspect by not allowing those who can afford to pay to opt out (but still be accepted at the ER when trouble comes their way)
-ERD50
Hi,
I have no preference on the American system b/c it doesn't affect me.
But for argument sake, isn't somehow there's some kind of resistance to block the wealth distribution, and that's why 45 million Americans are under insured or have no insurance at all ?
I know they (no insurance) will get treatment in ER, but according what I learnt, only ER; And Americans could go bankrupt b/c of medical costs. How can you explain that ? I think there's a fundamental problem with the American health care system, frankly !
I think there's a fundamental problem with the American health care system, frankly !
But for argument sake, isn't somehow there's some kind of resistance to block the wealth distribution, and that's why 45 million Americans are under insured or have no insurance at all ?
I know they (no insurance) will get treatment in ER, but according what I learnt, only ER; And Americans could go bankrupt b/c of medical costs. How can you explain that ?
I think there's a fundamental problem with the American health care system, frankly !
Snowbird, just to be clear, you are welcome to join us and also post here. I think Alan was suggesting you not focus on the wealth distribution issue, as that invites the type of political discussion we try to discourage.Ooppsss !
Thank you !Snowbird, just to be clear, you are welcome to join us and also post here. I think Alan was suggesting you not focus on the wealth distribution issue, as that invites the type of political discussion we try to discourage.
During the debate about Obamacare a couple of years back I decided to do my own research on health care systems around the world. Having lived in Europe I know for a fact, or at least to my own satisfaction that their quality of care is at least as good as ours.
Europe spends about 14% of GDP on health care
USA spends about 17%.
I believe the extra 3% here comes from inefficiencies and from poor health choices. If we cut out 90% of the paperwork and finger-pointing about what is covered, who pays, what is preexisting, etc. and if people ate better diets and exercised, we'd probably cover that 3% spread and then some.
But Americans would rather argue about their god-given right to sit on their butts, eat pork rinds, and pontificate about "them socialists" in France than actually try to address the root of the problem!
I don't have the stats on costs between Canada and the US, but that 90% more than Canada seems right to me !I think your numbers are off. We spend more than 51% more than the next highest country which is Norway, and about 90% more than Canada and nearly 100% more than France.
I agree, we as a population are over weight and that is definitely a factor.
I don't think anyone would argue that. The poorest population are generally the most obese, and the wealthier Americans are the most fit (as a rule - not always) I think there is a direct correlation to income and intellect and being fit or obese. If you have traveled to other countries, you will see some significant differences in their eating habits, and food available.
We are the Fast Food capital of the world, and the general accepted diet for Americans is not exactly healthy. But our government does not seem willing to promote better eating. Look at the problem they are having with the school lunches, and the critisism Michele Obama got when she planted her garden and advocated eating more vegetables. Yes, it is not our government's job to take care of our health, but it wouldn't hurt for them to participate in some education.
This is not true. If someone needs treatment they get it. You don't see the gutters in front of hospitals and ERs lined with dead/dying. It's not just emergency services either, I know people who have received excellent treatment for things like tendinitis surgery, with no out-of-pocket cost.
That is not to defend our system. I am one of the many who feels we need change, big changes. The recent bill that was passed does not address many of the issues that people on both sides of the political spectrum agree with (cut the link between employment and health insurance being one important one).
I don't think it is so much that we are afraid of change, but many of us feel we have reason to be afraid of the kind of changes our political system comes up with (that is meant to be totally non-partisan).
I think a nationalized health care system would be an easier pill to swallow (pun intended!) if we had more faith in our governmental system. Polls consistently put Congress approval ratings in single or low double digits. I think people are being generous
edit: forgot to comment on the Wealth Redistribution hot button - Our current system involves wealth redistribution; people w/o means are treated for free, some people decide to 'go naked' and don't pay for insurance. Others end up paying their bill through higher charges. A well run nationalized system could actually reduce the wealth redistribution aspect by not allowing those who can afford to pay to opt out (but still be accepted at the ER when trouble comes their way)