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Old 01-06-2011, 06:40 PM   #21
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I don't understand whats so important about the mandate. I mean you can't sign up for insurance while on the way to the hospital while having a heart attack or any number of accidents. Your still taking a huge risk going without IMO. I'm sure I must be missing something?
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:14 PM   #22
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I don't understand whats so important about the mandate. I mean you can't sign up for insurance while on the way to the hospital while having a heart attack or any number of accidents. Your still taking a huge risk going without IMO. I'm sure I must be missing something?
The insurance mandate is a bit like the concept of gun control, IMO. Well-intentioned, but it assumes everyone participates. Well, guess what- lawbreakers don't participate, and the system doesn't work. The criminals keep their guns in their pockets in one instance and their insurance premiums in their pockets in the other, in both examples gaining an unfair advantage over those who follow the rules.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:00 AM   #23
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The mandate makes sure no one abuses the system. What's been happening is that people choosing not to insure themselves get injured or have a heart attack, then show up at the hospital for treatment. Medical facilities are obligated to treat sick arrivals, whether they can pay or not. Many if not most of these people either cannot or won't pay. Those costs get passed on to the rest of us in higher premiums. Not a fair or practical system... hence mandate.

I'm fully in favor of the new healthcare system kicking in in 2014. The insurance industry has ripped us off long enough to maintain their profit margins...pre-existing condition denials, arbitrary rate increases, suddenly dropping coverage, dropping people altogether when they get sick. This is no way to run a civilized and humane health care system. For us planning early retirement, it'll take that last finacial risk out of the equation. No other advanced country in the world runs such a dysfunctional system like we have now.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:24 AM   #24
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The mandate makes sure no one abuses the system
I guess you missed all of the people in Massachusetts that abuse the system by jumping on and off insurance policies when they need a procedure done. They have a mandate, they have guaranteed coverage, it gets abused.

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The insurance industry has ripped us off long enough to maintain their profit margins.
You may have also missed the story today that Blue Shield of CA is raising rates up to 59% for some policyholders because of new state mandated laws. This is their third rate increase in six months - one in October 2010, one in January 2011, and another for March 2011. Blue Shield is non-profit.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:51 AM   #25
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Either way the system is going to be abused. With the current law, I just get to pay more for those who are abusing the system.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:25 AM   #26
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[QUOTE
You may have also missed the story today that Blue Shield of CA is raising rates up to 59% for some policyholders because of new state mandated laws. This is their third rate increase in six months - one in October 2010, one in January 2011, and another for March 2011. Blue Shield is non-profit.[/QUOTE]

Can you provide us with a link about this 59% increase news?
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:28 AM   #27
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Can you provide us with a link about this 59% increase news?
Blue Shield of California seeks rate hikes of as much as 59% for individuals - latimes.com
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:31 AM   #28
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You may have also missed the story today that Blue Shield of CA is raising rates up to 59% for some policyholders because of new state mandated laws. This is their third rate increase in six months - one in October 2010, one in January 2011, and another for March 2011. Blue Shield is non-profit.
Health Care brokers and intermediaries use the reform act as an excuse, but it is certainly not the reason. They were raising their rates before the reform and will probably continue to do so.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:38 AM   #29
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Health Care brokers and intermediaries use the reform act as an excuse, but it is certainly not the reason. They were raising their rates before the reform and will probably continue to do so.
Two of the three increases were specifically due to the new reform mandates, legislation passed in California that companies can't deny children applying alone in a 3-month open enrollment period, and another new law stating that men and women must be charged the same rates. So men will get to pay more and women will get to pay less.

Besides, the health reform act was supposed to solve our problems so we could all go ride some unicorns and rainbows while getting cancer treatments for free. What happened to saving the average family $2500/year in premiums? Haven't heard that claim since 2008...
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:14 AM   #30
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This increase is the most outrageous form of taxing without representation. The insurance companies are allowed to charge more to always maintain a profit margin. Where is the incentive to compete? We can change goverment with our votes but we're helpless against the insurance companies.

This system must be changed. A public option is definitely needed.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:45 PM   #31
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In theory, I think we structured our Govt to be representative, because (again, in theory), those reps should be informed enough to enact legislation designed to achieve goals that meet the people's will. If not, let's just eliminate Congress and we will pass laws based on American-Idol style phone in votes.

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In my favorite health insurance plan, people would cast annual votes.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:48 PM   #32
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Do away with insurance group pricing differences. Just price for admin cost differences. That will substantially level the playing field.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:15 AM   #33
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This increase is the most outrageous form of taxing without representation. The insurance companies are allowed to charge more to always maintain a profit margin. Where is the incentive to compete? We can change goverment with our votes but we're helpless against the insurance companies.

This system must be changed. A public option is definitely needed.
It is the govt that set up the system that allowed insurance companies to come to this point. Starting with the market-twisting tax benefits for employee sponsored health insurance, which started the tie in between getting health ins and employment, isolated the consumer from the costs, and much, much more.

We have met the enemy and he is us?

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Old 01-08-2011, 03:48 AM   #34
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The last time I participated in a healthcare related topic on this website, one moderator closed the thread (became too "political"). Therefore now I stay away from this topic...
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:41 AM   #35
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I'm not sure what you mean here.
The same coverage has different prices depending on the size of the group. This difference can be as much as 2x. In general, smaller group policies are much more expensive than large groups.
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:36 AM   #36
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The same coverage has different prices depending on the size of the group. This difference can be as much as 2x. In general, smaller group policies are much more expensive than large groups.
I think that was supposed to be addressed in the health insurance law the Senate passed and the HOR deemed to have passed. It is one section of the law I agreed with. I don't see any reason why health insurance companies can't use the same methods as auto insurance as far as rating groups. Their business model is based on the state so it makes sense to rate people based on the profitability in the state.
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:14 AM   #37
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The last time I participated in a healthcare related topic on this website, one moderator closed the thread (became too "political"). Therefore now I stay away from this topic...

They usually start out civil, but since most of us already have a strong opinion one way or the other... it soon becomes a shouting match because that other person just does not get it...


Politics have gotten to the point of win-lose... which also leads to lose-lose.... if I do not get my way, neither will you... unless you barely give enough to get a few votes here or there... Funny thing is that there could have been a bipartisan bill passed that would have gotten a good number of things the dems wanted passed as long as it did not include universal health care... and it would have included a good number of things the repubs would have liked to see (tort reform, buying across states etc.)... since they decided to go the win-lose way instead of the win-win... their program will be attacked for years to come...

I say years to come because I do not think there will ever be enough votes to overturn the law as written... so even if repubs get the president and more senate seats... they will not get the number in 2012 to overturn the law... so fighting continues for another 2 years... now comes 2014 and they still will not have the votes... now the law is really starting to take effect... so they defund some of the law... again, win-lose... so fighting continues until 2016... heck, I bet that we will be talking about this in the 2020 presidential race...

So, yes... I can see the pig coming at some time in this thread and we will start over in another...
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:13 AM   #38
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The same coverage has different prices depending on the size of the group. This difference can be as much as 2x. In general, smaller group policies are much more expensive than large groups.
I've never looked at this is detail, but I've always assumed there was a lot more anti-selection in small group than large group, i.e. a small employer may not even seek group insurance until one important individual in the group becomes uninsurable.

So requiring the same rates for small groups as large groups seems like a big step toward guaranteed issue at standard rates for individual policies. Was that your intent?
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:33 AM   #39
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I've never looked at this is detail, but I've always assumed there was a lot more anti-selection in small group than large group, i.e. a small employer may not even seek group insurance until one important individual in the group becomes uninsurable.

So requiring the same rates for small groups as large groups seems like a big step toward guaranteed issue at standard rates for individual policies. Was that your intent?
I was only thinking there is too much cross subsidy right now. Higher rates for small groups and lower rates for large groups. The lower rate encourages over-use and hides the real cost. The higher rate discourages enrollment. The system becomes distorted.

Standard rates for all would be a big step forward.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:15 AM   #40
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You may have also missed the story today that Blue Shield of CA is raising rates up to 59% for some policyholders because of new state mandated laws.
There is certainly truth to the idea that the new laws and their mandates are causing premiums to rise.

However, I trust insurance companies even less than I trust government (and I have little trust in government)... and I wouldn't put it past them to propose apocalyptic rate far in excess of their increased costs in order to try to get the people to scream for repeal of the new laws.
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