Not in My Backyard

[chinaco]

The greenies want renewable energy. But they have difficulties with conflicting goals.

They don't want the infrastructure in their backyard or in open lands.

Which is worse? Dependence on foreign oil, pollution, greenhouse gases or the new infrastructure to harvest natural energy?

However, the Power Company seems to be up to a little subterfuge... say one thing to get what they want then do something different. They wouldn't lie would they?

Power Struggle . NOW on PBS

 

[ls99]

The greenies want renewable energy. But they have difficulties with conflicting goals.

They don't want the infrastructure in their backyard or in open lands.

Which is worse? Dependence on foreign oil, pollution, greenhouse gases or the new infrastructure to harvest natural energy?

However, the Power Company seems to be up to a little subterfuge... say one thing to get what they want then do something different. They wouldn't lie would they?

Power Struggle . NOW on PBS

Start building those windmills off Nantucket.

 

[Gumby]

The greenies want renewable energy. But they have difficulties with conflicting goals.

They don't want the infrastructure in their backyard or in open lands.

Painting with a bit of a broad brush there, aren't you? I would consider myself an environmentalist and a proponent of renewable energy, but I support nuclear power and wouldn't mind if they put a wind farm in Long Island Sound (which I view from my house).

I do agree that NIMBY'ism, and its more virulent form BANANA (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything) is a real problem. We as a society are simply going to have to start making realistic choices about what we want (and start properly evaluating the risk associated with each option).

 

[ERD50]

Painting with a bit of a broad brush there, aren't you? I would consider myself an environmentalist and a proponent of renewable energy, ...

We as a society are simply going to have to start making realistic choices about what we want (and start properly evaluating the risk associated with each option).

Does anyone know - is there a term for the kind of "greenies" that I believe Chinaco was referring to? I guess I'd call them hypocrites, but there must be some kind of specific "green hypocrite" or "green clueless" ( for the people who think hydrogen is a readily available, pollution free energy source, or that electric cars are zero-pollution) term in use.

I agree "Greenie" is probably too broad a brush, but I think I know what he means.

-ERD50

 

[ziggy29]

I think there are ways to address NIMBYism. If there's a pressing enough need for more power plants, communities can be [-]bribed[/-] persuaded to accept a plant in several different ways. Whether through "profit sharing" checks for locals, reduced cost power or just the lure of more jobs, there are ways to "buy" community support.

But in reality, I think NIMBYism tends to wane when the economy is in the dumps. Anything that's likely to produce hundreds of new jobs in a region is likely to be much more popular now than when almost everyone who wants a decent job has one.

 

[travelover]

Blatantly political and not related to FIRE.

 

[Alan]

Does anyone know - is there a term for the kind of "greenies" that I believe Chinaco was referring to? I guess I'd call them hypocrites, but there must be some kind of specific "green hypocrite" or "green clueless" ( for the people who think hydrogen is a readily available, pollution free energy source, or that electric cars are zero-pollution) term in use.

Hypogreenies?

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

We need nuclear powered retirement!

And we need it now!

 

[ziggy29]

We need nuclear powered retirement!

Anyone who spent 20 years on a Navy submarine might already have it...

 

[Zathras]

How about just 'Hypocrits'?
After all, do you call a preacher that spends donation money on private jets a 'religious hypocrit' or just 'hypocrit'?
I consider myself a 'greenie' as well. However, I have no problem with them building wind generators in my view.
For those that do, I would suggest this; give them a choice. You can either have now power, wind farm, or a coal plant built in your back yard

 

[FIRE'd@51]

Does anyone know - is there a term for the kind of "greenies" that I believe Chinaco was referring to?

I believe they would be called "limousine greenies".

 

[ERD50]

Blatantly political and not related to FIRE.

You have a point. The OP should have mentioned the costs that could affect the retired folk.

This kind of negativism from pseudo-environmentalists could increase energy costs for us. And, if the govt decides to subsidize programs such that we spend $2 to save $1, that could affect us.

How about just 'Hypocrits'?
After all, do you call a preacher that spends donation money on private jets a 'religious hypocrit' or just 'hypocrit'?

Good point - but I'm just looking for a catchy "buzz word".

Hypogreenies?

I believe they would be called "limousine greenies".

Good ones - I really like "limousine greenies"

-ERD50

 

[Nords]

I consider myself a 'greenie' as well. However, I have no problem with them building wind generators in my view.
For those that do, I would suggest this; give them a choice. You can either have now power, wind farm, or a coal plant built in your back yard

I live next to a sewage pumping station, and many's the time I've thought about putting 5-10 KW of photovoltaic panels on its big, flat, sunny, wide-open roof when nobody is looking.

My big obstacle has been figuring out how to disguise the power conduit coming over to our house...

 

[Zathras]

Paint the conduit to look like a sewer pipe??

 

[FinanceDude]

A lot of our village is rural. One farmer I know had a nice high point on his land that was difficult to grow crops on. Verizon wanted to put a cell tower on it, and were willing to pay him $2500 a month for 99 years.

The zoning commission refused to grant a permit, even though Verizon agreed to disguise the cell tower by making it look like a silo with an American flag flying on top..........

 

[Koolau]

Does anyone know - is there a term for the kind of "greenies" that I believe Chinaco was referring to?
-ERD50

Watermelons - Green on the outside. Red on the inside.

Sorry, can't take credit for this one. Got it from a neighbor. He (honestly) believes it's not about NIMBY or BANANA but about "destroying America" from the inside. Can't say I fully agree with him, but you have to wonder about folks who decry the use of oil, coal, and even nuclear but don't want "clean" energy either.

 

[TromboneAl]

My big obstacle has been figuring out how to disguise the power conduit coming over to our house...

Cover it with sewage.

 

[FinanceDude]

Cover it with sewage.

Cover it in canvas, and let the local art college students paint it to blend in with the surrounding flora.........

 

[eridanus]

This kind of negativism from pseudo-environmentalists could increase energy costs for us. And, if the govt decides to subsidize programs such that we spend $2 to save $1, that could affect us.

We've been subsidizing oil for a long, long, time. I have the oil depletion allowance on my 1040 to prove it.

 

[ERD50]

We've been subsidizing oil for a long, long, time. I have the oil depletion allowance on my 1040 to prove it.

And just think, if we didn't subsidize oil, maybe we wouldn't need subsidies on alternative energy. Funny how the "answer" never involves removing anything, it is always to add another thing to counter-act it.

I've never come across clear numbers about the extent of oil industry subsidies (and I'd prefer to exclude military costs, unless they are directly and unquestionably related to oil, just to avoid that whole issue). Anyone got a good link?

-ERD50

 

[eridanus]

I've never come across clear numbers about the extent of oil industry subsidies (and I'd prefer to exclude military costs, unless they are directly and unquestionably related to oil, just to avoid that whole issue). Anyone got a good link?

-ERD50

This is to 2000. It doesn't include the $18B in recent years (did Congress take it back?) or loan guarantees and risk insurance to the tune of ~$16B for coal-to-gas plants and nuclear cost overruns. Etc.


www.[B]gao[/B].gov/new.items/rc00301r.pdf

 

[Frugality_of_Apathy]

And just think, if we didn't subsidize oil, maybe we wouldn't need subsidies on alternative energy. Funny how the "answer" never involves removing anything, it is always to add another thing to counter-act it.

-ERD50

I'd think the best subsidy would be allowing everyone to keep more of their money so that if gas costs 7% of your income now plus whatever you actually buy you'll have an extra 7% to buy that gas or use some alternative on a level playing field.

What happens if they decide to subsidize wind and solar along with gas but then someone figures out how to use a cup of coffee grounds to power the whole country? It's never going to be adopted because not only does it have to be cheaper than everything else, it has to be cheaper than the subsidized price and the price to replace the infrastructure and build new facilities.

 

[ERD50]

What happens if they decide to subsidize wind and solar along with gas but then someone figures out how to use a cup of coffee grounds to power the whole country? It's never going to be adopted because not only does it have to be cheaper than everything else, it has to be cheaper than the subsidized price and the price to replace the infrastructure and build new facilities.

Exactly.

And this was an issue for the guy that was working on the "Anything into Oil" plant (he was turning turkey slaughter waste into oil). While that may or may not be worthwhile, it was not just pseudo-science hokum, it was based on sound chemistry, he has some prototype plants up and running (google it for the details).

But the real interesting point was, there was some $1/gallon govt subsidy for biofuels, but his process did not fit the legal definition. So he was under a $1/gallon "penalty" right from the start. That just makes no sense - how are we supposed to get the best solutions when Congress has already pre-ordained the "answers" through their micro-management of tax codes?

He did manage to get the laws changed, but it impacted his ability to get financing until that happened. What good comes from that?

This is why the people are getting so skeptical of the "Economic Stimulus" bill, they are seeing how the more govt gets involved, the more they create unintended consequences that hurt us.

-ERD50