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Old 04-04-2011, 03:26 PM   #41
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Well, if it goes through then I miss the old system by one year...

And I also missed by one year my mega healthcare for retired employees... they offered people with 15 years of service group rates for people 55 and older... the new CEO thought it was bad and got rid of it... but grandfathered in people on it and those over 50... I was 49...

Seems I am barely on the wrong side of most of the fixes no matter when and where they are occuring...
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:33 PM   #42
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Seems I am barely on the wrong side of most of the fixes no matter when and where they are occuring...
It all balances out, Tex. You came of age on the fun side of the change in drinking ages from 18 to 21.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:34 PM   #43
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Here's one thing the plan does: reduce the debt! What a novel idea. Still waiting for the administration response as to how THEY plan on reducing the debt and fixing Medicare/Medicaid/SS. I won't hold my breath.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:58 PM   #44
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So would raising taxes.

But people don't want that.

Remains to be seen if people are willing to say no more Medicare for those under 55, after decades of paying Medicare taxes.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:21 PM   #45
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So would raising taxes.

But people don't want that.

Remains to be seen if people are willing to say no more Medicare for those under 55, after decades of paying Medicare taxes.
Where does it say no more Medicare? Maybe I missed something. The true solution lies with some combination of tax increases and spending cuts, but "tax the rich" will not solve the debt crisis.
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Old 04-05-2011, 05:14 AM   #46
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Translation:

Step 1 - Privatize Medicare and Medicaid and lump them together.
Step 2 - Well after all it really is a welfare program so only those below the line of poverty get the tax credit (which is funneled straight to the insurance company). But don't worry... the rest of you can buy in. But it is going to be very very expense! Wow look after that you are in poverty. Oh... but you make too much to get the lower rate!


I am fine with fixing the funding issue... but I fear a shell game is afoot which will translate to "Oops... well lookie there... ezpeazy... we got rid of it after all". [collective GOP plan]They are so dumb... they didn't even notice!

I find it outrageous that the GOP will not address the overall problem... just trying to avoid their lack of fiduciary responsibility with SS and Medicare!

If they are not willing to create a national plan that includes everyone... Forget it!

Next step in the strategy.... Let's take another run at SS again. If at first you don't succeed [GWB] then try, try again. After all.. It is a welfare program!


My first stop to recover the taxes avoided over the last 30 years... is an old style inheritance tax for the next 30 years to fund the gap. They can pay back those tax breaks they got over the last 30 years and kept spending!

Look at some of the interviews in this documentary by a J&J heir. This is not directly related to the medicare debate... but it show the mindset of the big contributors that are funding this drive!



The One Percent


If you do not watch this entire segment... jump to the last minute of segement 1 and the beginning of segment 2. at a wealth conference for the mega rich! Of course they open up.... they are talking to an insider!

It looks like most of it is on youtube in 8 sections.

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Old 04-05-2011, 08:13 AM   #47
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I find it outrageous that the GOP will not address the overall problem... just trying to avoid their lack of fiduciary responsibility with SS and Medicare!
This is what taking responsibility looks like: Addressing the problem (cost growth) and not just throwing more money at the problem and bankrupting the country.
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If they are not willing to create a national plan that includes everyone... Forget it!
Do you reject the present Medicare system because it doesn't cover everyone? Anyway, the new health care law plus this revision in Medicare covers just about everyone. If it were to pass, I think it likely that the health care exchange systems would merge, though the funding streams would likely stay distinct (just due to governmental inertia).

Resistance to change, sticking with old policies just because they are old--which party is doing that now? We need new labels for our political players since "conservatives" and "progressives" sure doesn't seem appropriate today. I think the folks now known as "conservatives" should retake their historical title of "liberals" --with the traditional emphasis on individual liberty and freedom to choose.
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:25 AM   #48
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I find it outrageous that the GOP will not address the overall problem... just trying to avoid their lack of fiduciary responsibility with SS and Medicare!
I find it outrageous that any one party is looked upon as the "savior" of any problem that occurs in this country, or responsible for all of its challanges.

Somewhere along the line, representative government has been replaced by partisan government. True that it has always been so, but it seems lately that it has gotten worse.

It's like saying that in any "marriage" only person is responsible for fixing all the challenges that come up in life. That's not reality, since both share the blame of the problem in some way, and both are responsible to come up with a solution. The only difference is in the "leadership" of our basic two-party system can't get a divorce - and "we", their "children" suffer from their transgressions (BTW, my parents were divorced, so I know how the children of any toxic environment feel).

I don't care who is "in power"; just fix the dam*ed problem...

BTW, FDR (a Democrat) signed SS into law. Johnson (a Democrat) signed Medicare into law. In either case, a veto was not involved so I'll just assume the president of the era basically agreed with the final bill presented by congress.

If anything, I would say that the Dem's share in (what you commented on) "fiduciary responsibility". Sorry, but I don't see any constructive "leadership" in the two main parties...
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:07 AM   #49
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Anyway, the new health care law plus this revision in Medicare covers just about everyone. If it were to pass, I think it likely that the health care exchange systems would merge, though the funding streams would likely stay distinct (just due to governmental inertia).
Why do you think they would merge? I would expect them to stay separate so the insurers can keep rates low for the younger group. I expect it would take a legislative mandate to merge them. But the GOP would be hard pressed to mandate merger since they don't acknowledge the legitimacy of the Obama program in the first place. I would be less skeptical if this was proposed as an extension of the current plan to the senior population rather than a separate privatization of Medicare with its high cost pool.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:59 AM   #50
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Isn't that part of the health care bill that the Republican's are working to repeal?

I think the only way this is going to work at all is if the insurance companies are forced to take all of the voucher folks at the same price. Otherwise they are going to cherry pick the healthy seniors and we will be left with a group that is uninsurable.

I'm very sceptical that moving to vouchers to buy private insurance is going to make anything cheaper. In the history of insurance, I would be hard pressed to think of anything it has made cheaper.

That isn't what insurance is for or is good at. Insurance is good for spreading a small risk of something very expensive happening. When that risk becomes relatively large, all insurance does is add cost.

I think scaling back the services that Medicare will pay for (as opposed to just reducing the re-imbursement rate, which is probably already too low) is a better option.

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Have you heard of "health insurance exchanges"? That's how we can address this problem.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:14 AM   #51
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The plan will go nowhere. All senators care about is re-election, and funneling money to their districts. It doesn't matter what the House wants, the Senate majority wants to get Obama re-elected, so they are highly unlikely to compromise on any real reform, as it would be viewed as a "weakness", "caving in to the GOP", etc........

Paul Ryan is no doubt one of the most frustrated poiticians in the USA...........
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #52
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Do you really think it will even pass in the House?

When Ryan put this plan forth, it wasn't like there was a rush of Republicans running to support it.

I'd be suprised if a majority of Republicans had the stones to vote for it.

The "voted to privatize Medicare" ad seems like a political death sentence.


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The plan will go nowhere. All senators care about is re-election, and funneling money to their districts. It doesn't matter what the House wants, the Senate majority wants to get Obama re-elected, so they are highly unlikely to compromise on any real reform, as it would be viewed as a "weakness", "caving in to the GOP", etc........

Paul Ryan is no doubt one of the most frustrated poiticians in the USA...........
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:35 AM   #53
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It all balances out, Tex. You came of age on the fun side of the change in drinking ages from 18 to 21.
You mean LEGAL drinking age... I see enough on the news to know that a lot of teens are drinking...


I remember the guys taking me to a strip club on my 17th birthday...
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:36 AM   #54
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Do you really think it will even pass in the House?

When Ryan put this plan forth, it wasn't like there was a rush of Republicans running to support it.

I'd be suprised if a majority of Republicans had the stones to vote for it.

The "voted to privatize Medicare" ad seems like a political death sentence.
This is a goofy plan that is just another shell game, and a slow death for Medicare. What we do not need is more Balkanization of the health market.

Ha
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:46 AM   #55
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This is a goofy plan that is just another shell game, and a slow death for Medicare. What we do not need is more Balkanization of the health market.Ha
Well, I am still waiting for the Dem's plan to fix this problem. I am not going to hold my breath...........at least Ryan HAS a plan.........
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:47 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
Translation:

Step 1 - Privatize Medicare and Medicaid and lump them together.
Step 2 - Well after all it really is a welfare program so only those below the line of poverty get the tax credit (which is funneled straight to the insurance company). But don't worry... the rest of you can buy in. But it is going to be very very expense! Wow look after that you are in poverty. Oh... but you make too much to get the lower rate!


I am fine with fixing the funding issue... but I fear a shell game is afoot which will translate to "Oops... well lookie there... ezpeazy... we got rid of it after all". [collective GOP plan]They are so dumb... they didn't even notice!

I find it outrageous that the GOP will not address the overall problem... just trying to avoid their lack of fiduciary responsibility with SS and Medicare!

If they are not willing to create a national plan that includes everyone... Forget it!

Next step in the strategy.... Let's take another run at SS again. If at first you don't succeed [GWB] then try, try again. After all.. It is a welfare program!


My first stop to recover the taxes avoided over the last 30 years... is an old style inheritance tax for the next 30 years to fund the gap. They can pay back those tax breaks they got over the last 30 years and kept spending!

Look at some of the interviews in this documentary by a J&J heir. This is not directly related to the medicare debate... but it show the mindset of the big contributors that are funding this drive!



The One Percent


If you do not watch this entire segment... jump to the last minute of segement 1 and the beginning of segment 2. at a wealth conference for the mega rich! Of course they open up.... they are talking to an insider!

It looks like most of it is on youtube in 8 sections.


I don't understand why you have a problem with people wanting to keep the money they earned in the family... heck, I want to do that as much as I can.... and I will use all legal means that I can to do so..

Are you saying you will not
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:43 PM   #57
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After watching all the recent political rhetoric flying across the airwaves, I'm starting to think that I might get my best entertainment bang for the buck if the Republican party takes the Senate and Presidency in 2012. Just the thought of them all being in a position to be able to deliver on all the campaign promises brings a grin to my face.

I think we would see the most remarkable feat of political backpedaling in decades, after realizing that they are in a position to carry out campaign promises guaranteed to tick off almost every major campaign contributor, supporting PAC backer, and backroom boss. That would be hilarious.

Remember, these folks have been screaming about the urgent need to balance budgets, shrink government, cut this and that for years. Look at Senator Shelby (R-Alabama) for example. He gives wonderful talks about runaway government spending, and introduces his balanced budget amendment every year like clockwork. Yet mysteriously, even as NASA and the government budget have abandoned the Constellation project, the 70 word Shelby provision keeps showing up in the budget extensions, to keep funding parts of the Ares I rocket (part of the dead Constellation project) to the tune of 1.4 million/day. NASA wants it halted, but the Shelby provision has poured some $280,000,000 into this, mostly to Alliant Techsystems, to develop parts for a dead project. Sure, just chump change, but not bad for a $10,000 campaign contribution.

There are hundreds more of these deals just like this. What do you think the odds are that Koch Industries or Archer Daniels Midland will see their ethanol subsidies go away? Think the Corn Refiners Association will let their corn subsidies and sugar quotas go away? Think the oil industry subsidies will vanish after the companies slid $14,258,340 to their Distinguished Congresscritters?

Don't hold out hope that some political party will come along and make the budget all better. That is just pretty campaign rhetoric, not to be taken seriously.
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:54 PM   #58
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Don't hold out hope that some political party will come along and make the budget all better. That is just pretty campaign rhetoric, not to be taken seriously.
Kinda like we "fixed" the whole healthcare issue, right?
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:13 PM   #59
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As a person who is on an individual health plan, I am concerned about health insurance and healthcare both short and long term. Here is my dumb question. There are supposedly a lot of poor countries that Americans go to for surgeries, etc in Asia, India, etc. that offer excellent health care at affordable prices. Is there anything they are doing that we could? If there was, it would seem that would help more than just the cost shifting game we are doing. I don't mean huge subsidized tax money, as I am assuming these Americans are paying unsubsidized prices and it is still affordable.
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:26 PM   #60
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There are supposedly a lot of poor countries that Americans go to for surgeries, etc in Asia, India, etc. that offer excellent health care at affordable prices. Is there anything they are doing that we could? If there was, it would seem that would help more than just the cost shifting game we are doing.
Places like Bumrungrad Hospital in Thailand are private for-profit businesses. The costs are lower because of the lower cost of living (including lower wages, as well as other expenses).

From an interview with their spokesman:
At Bumrungrad Hospital, Toral said, the lower cost of living is a major factor in the savings, but so are differences in how the medical system operates:
  • Doctors in Thailand pay about $5,000 a year for malpractice insurance, compared with more than $100,000 for some specialties in the United States.
  • Thai courts will adjudicate malpractice claims, but the largest award ever issued was about $100,000 and the law there doesn't permit damages for pain and suffering.
  • Another major savings is that Bumrungrad doesn't have to spend much on processing insurance claims, since 75 percent of its patients pay cash."You can come to our hospital and pay for major surgery on your credit card," he said. "You could never do that in the states."
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