Ryan-Rivlin Plan for Medicare & Medicaid Reform

[FinanceDude]

The plan will go nowhere. All senators care about is re-election, and funneling money to their districts. It doesn't matter what the House wants, the Senate majority wants to get Obama re-elected, so they are highly unlikely to compromise on any real reform, as it would be viewed as a "weakness", "caving in to the GOP", etc........

Paul Ryan is no doubt one of the most frustrated poiticians in the USA...........

 

[Hamlet]

Do you really think it will even pass in the House?

When Ryan put this plan forth, it wasn't like there was a rush of Republicans running to support it.

I'd be suprised if a majority of Republicans had the stones to vote for it.

The "voted to privatize Medicare" ad seems like a political death sentence.

The plan will go nowhere. All senators care about is re-election, and funneling money to their districts. It doesn't matter what the House wants, the Senate majority wants to get Obama re-elected, so they are highly unlikely to compromise on any real reform, as it would be viewed as a "weakness", "caving in to the GOP", etc........

Paul Ryan is no doubt one of the most frustrated poiticians in the USA...........

 

[Texas Proud]

It all balances out, Tex. You came of age on the fun side of the change in drinking ages from 18 to 21.

You mean LEGAL drinking age... I see enough on the news to know that a lot of teens are drinking...


I remember the guys taking me to a strip club on my 17th birthday...

 

[haha]

Do you really think it will even pass in the House?

When Ryan put this plan forth, it wasn't like there was a rush of Republicans running to support it.

I'd be suprised if a majority of Republicans had the stones to vote for it.

The "voted to privatize Medicare" ad seems like a political death sentence.

This is a goofy plan that is just another shell game, and a slow death for Medicare. What we do not need is more Balkanization of the health market.

Ha

 

[FinanceDude]

This is a goofy plan that is just another shell game, and a slow death for Medicare. What we do not need is more Balkanization of the health market.Ha

Well, I am still waiting for the Dem's plan to fix this problem. I am not going to hold my breath...........at least Ryan HAS a plan.........

 

[Texas Proud]

Translation:

Step 1 - Privatize Medicare and Medicaid and lump them together.
Step 2 - Well after all it really is a welfare program so only those below the line of poverty get the tax credit (which is funneled straight to the insurance company). But don't worry... the rest of you can buy in. But it is going to be very very expense! Wow look after that you are in poverty. Oh... but you make too much to get the lower rate!


I am fine with fixing the funding issue... but I fear a shell game is afoot which will translate to "Oops... well lookie there... ezpeazy... we got rid of it after all". [collective GOP plan]They are so dumb... they didn't even notice!

I find it outrageous that the GOP will not address the overall problem... just trying to avoid their lack of fiduciary responsibility with SS and Medicare!

If they are not willing to create a national plan that includes everyone... Forget it!

Next step in the strategy.... Let's take another run at SS again. If at first you don't succeed [GWB] then try, try again. After all.. It is a welfare program!


My first stop to recover the taxes avoided over the last 30 years... is an old style inheritance tax for the next 30 years to fund the gap. They can pay back those tax breaks they got over the last 30 years and kept spending!

Look at some of the interviews in this documentary by a J&J heir. This is not directly related to the medicare debate... but it show the mindset of the big contributors that are funding this drive!



The One Percent


If you do not watch this entire segment... jump to the last minute of segement 1 and the beginning of segment 2. at a wealth conference for the mega rich! Of course they open up.... they are talking to an insider!

It looks like most of it is on youtube in 8 sections.

YouTube - The One Percent 1/8

I don't understand why you have a problem with people wanting to keep the money they earned in the family... heck, I want to do that as much as I can.... and I will use all legal means that I can to do so..

Are you saying you will not

 

[M Paquette]

After watching all the recent political rhetoric flying across the airwaves, I'm starting to think that I might get my best entertainment bang for the buck if the Republican party takes the Senate and Presidency in 2012. Just the thought of them all being in a position to be able to deliver on all the campaign promises brings a grin to my face.

I think we would see the most remarkable feat of political backpedaling in decades, after realizing that they are in a position to carry out campaign promises guaranteed to tick off almost every major campaign contributor, supporting PAC backer, and backroom boss. That would be hilarious.

Remember, these folks have been screaming about the urgent need to balance budgets, shrink government, cut this and that for years. Look at Senator Shelby (R-Alabama) for example. He gives wonderful talks about runaway government spending, and introduces his balanced budget amendment every year like clockwork. Yet mysteriously, even as NASA and the government budget have abandoned the Constellation project, the 70 word Shelby provision keeps showing up in the budget extensions, to keep funding parts of the Ares I rocket (part of the dead Constellation project) to the tune of 1.4 million/day. NASA wants it halted, but the Shelby provision has poured some $280,000,000 into this, mostly to Alliant Techsystems, to develop parts for a dead project. Sure, just chump change, but not bad for a $10,000 campaign contribution.

There are hundreds more of these deals just like this. What do you think the odds are that Koch Industries or Archer Daniels Midland will see their ethanol subsidies go away? Think the Corn Refiners Association will let their corn subsidies and sugar quotas go away? Think the oil industry subsidies will vanish after the companies slid $14,258,340 to their Distinguished Congresscritters?

Don't hold out hope that some political party will come along and make the budget all better. That is just pretty campaign rhetoric, not to be taken seriously.

 

[FinanceDude]

Don't hold out hope that some political party will come along and make the budget all better. That is just pretty campaign rhetoric, not to be taken seriously.

Kinda like we "fixed" the whole healthcare issue, right?

 

[Mulligan]

As a person who is on an individual health plan, I am concerned about health insurance and healthcare both short and long term. Here is my dumb question. There are supposedly a lot of poor countries that Americans go to for surgeries, etc in Asia, India, etc. that offer excellent health care at affordable prices. Is there anything they are doing that we could? If there was, it would seem that would help more than just the cost shifting game we are doing. I don't mean huge subsidized tax money, as I am assuming these Americans are paying unsubsidized prices and it is still affordable.

 

[M Paquette]

There are supposedly a lot of poor countries that Americans go to for surgeries, etc in Asia, India, etc. that offer excellent health care at affordable prices. Is there anything they are doing that we could? If there was, it would seem that would help more than just the cost shifting game we are doing.

Places like Bumrungrad Hospital in Thailand are private for-profit businesses. The costs are lower because of the lower cost of living (including lower wages, as well as other expenses).

From an interview with their spokesman:

At Bumrungrad Hospital, Toral said, the lower cost of living is a major factor in the savings, but so are differences in how the medical system operates:

• Doctors in Thailand pay about $5,000 a year for malpractice insurance, compared with more than $100,000 for some specialties in the United States.
• Thai courts will adjudicate malpractice claims, but the largest award ever issued was about $100,000 and the law there doesn't permit damages for pain and suffering.
• Another major savings is that Bumrungrad doesn't have to spend much on processing insurance claims, since 75 percent of its patients pay cash."You can come to our hospital and pay for major surgery on your credit card," he said. "You could never do that in the states."

 

[Texas Proud]

After watching all the recent political rhetoric flying across the airwaves, I'm starting to think that I might get my best entertainment bang for the buck if the Republican party takes the Senate and Presidency in 2012. Just the thought of them all being in a position to be able to deliver on all the campaign promises brings a grin to my face.

I think we would see the most remarkable feat of political backpedaling in decades, after realizing that they are in a position to carry out campaign promises guaranteed to tick off almost every major campaign contributor, supporting PAC backer, and backroom boss. That would be hilarious.

Remember, these folks have been screaming about the urgent need to balance budgets, shrink government, cut this and that for years. Look at Senator Shelby (R-Alabama) for example. He gives wonderful talks about runaway government spending, and introduces his balanced budget amendment every year like clockwork. Yet mysteriously, even as NASA and the government budget have abandoned the Constellation project, the 70 word Shelby provision keeps showing up in the budget extensions, to keep funding parts of the Ares I rocket (part of the dead Constellation project) to the tune of 1.4 million/day. NASA wants it halted, but the Shelby provision has poured some $280,000,000 into this, mostly to Alliant Techsystems, to develop parts for a dead project. Sure, just chump change, but not bad for a $10,000 campaign contribution.

There are hundreds more of these deals just like this. What do you think the odds are that Koch Industries or Archer Daniels Midland will see their ethanol subsidies go away? Think the Corn Refiners Association will let their corn subsidies and sugar quotas go away? Think the oil industry subsidies will vanish after the companies slid $14,258,340 to their Distinguished Congresscritters?

Don't hold out hope that some political party will come along and make the budget all better. That is just pretty campaign rhetoric, not to be taken seriously.

First... I agree that all congresscritters have their pet projects to waste money... they do need to bring some home to keep the votes coming in... and I don't have any problems if they did cut the corn/sugar/oil/farm/military/etc tax breaks and direct subsidies... but as you say, they pay good money for their tax breaks...

HOWEVER... I think anybody in congress should work on a balanced budget... and using your example... and I will assume it is true... Shelby is not the problem... if there is a balanced budget amendment... then the size of the pie is fixed.... and THEN they get to slice it and dice it any way they want... then his pet project will not have any support and it will be crowded out... as it works today... he can do it because there is nothing there to stop it... or all the other pet projects every congresscritter wants to waste money on....

 

[chinaco]

This is what taking responsibility looks like: Addressing the problem (cost growth) and not just throwing more money at the problem and bankrupting the country.

...

They could create a national health care program... single payer. I would be ok with it.

 

[chinaco]

I don't understand why you have a problem with people wanting to keep the money they earned in the family... heck, I want to do that as much as I can.... and I will use all legal means that I can to do so..

Are you saying you will not

I pay my taxes... and it is a significant portion of my wealth!

They owe the back taxes for the last 30 years of GOP tax breaks that heavily favored the extremely wealthy... yet (both sides of the isle) kept spending using our SS $.


They can pay it back now. And they will when the extended GWB tax break expires. The GOP would not increase it higher... but IMO it should be increased above the pre-GWB level... Roll it back to the 50's!

 

[GregLee]

After watching all the recent political rhetoric flying across the airwaves, I'm starting to think that I might get my best entertainment bang for the buck if the Republican party takes the Senate and Presidency in 2012.

I doubt it would be much fun. They'll just start a war or two, then we'll all rally round and balancing the budget will become irrelevant.

 

[Dog]

Wow....no wonder nothing gets done. These posts are probably very similar to the senate and congressional debates. No one wants to give an inch or a handout/entitlement and meanwhile the country goes further and further in debt. "If nothing changes - nothing changes."

 

[explanade]

Supposedly, the claimed savings from the Ryan plan is based on some rosy assumptions, such as a 2.8% unemployment rate in 2020.

 

[explanade]

Of all the issues which could be addressed by a Constitutional amendment, balanced budget should be way down on the list.

Have we not learned the lessons from Hoover's mistakes? Or the more recent past, what would have happened if the banks went under because the requirement to balance the budget means no rescue.

Widespread bank runs and panic would have been a good thing but the federal budget would have been balanced, right?

 

[M Paquette]

Supposedly, the claimed savings from the Ryan plan is based on some rosy assumptions, such as a 2.8% unemployment rate in 2020.

That's the fly in the ointment. Rep. Ryan is to be commended for coming up with a budget plan (PDF), and further commended for having one that makes an effort at serious deficit reduction. That said, however, there are some questionable figures in the preliminary economic projection (PDF: Heritage Foundation Report) being used to promote The Plan.

The Plan has unemployment at 2.8% in 2021. That figure does look purely wonderful, doesn't it? All nice and shiny, and ever so low. So low, in fact, that it puts some upward pressure on wages. OK, a lot of upward pressure on wages. Now, folks, anyone know what happens when wages move up on high demand for scarce labor? Yes, ma'am, the cost of produced goods goes up. So, it's a good thing those workers were able to get raises, so they could cover the higher cost of living. What's that? They want more than a cost of living increase? And if we fire them, they'll just go to work down the street for 5% more? Damn. Looks like we got us a price/wage spiral brought on by very full employment.

Even better, he has unemployment at 6.4% in 2012, and 4% in 2015. That's over a million new jobs created in 2012 with a 0.2% improvement in GDP, also from his figures. Well, improving GDP does create new jobs. From the real world historical figures, though, one of those numbers is off by a factor of 5...

There are some other fairly difficult to believe numbers in the analysis.

Again, I think it's a reasonable start, and a fairly solid basic plan, but the sales brochures (PDF) are a bit overdone.

 

[explanade]

If unemployment goes down to 6.4% next year, Obama probably gets re-elected and he could veto the plan.

Unless the Republicans convince the public that their control of the House is the reason for the economic improvement and they get veto-proof majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Lot of big ifs there.

 

[M Paquette]

If unemployment goes down to 6.4% next year, Obama probably gets re-elected and he could veto the plan.

Unless the Republicans convince the public that their control of the House is the reason for the economic improvement and they get veto-proof majorities in both the House and the Senate.

Lot of big ifs there.

Well, yeah. Our old county chairperson was complaining about the last unemployment figures, which showed a drop. The complaint was that they had 'gone off-script.'

The hope was that the numbers would stay above 9% nationwide, and 12% locally until the elections. Maybe with a nice double-dip recession...

(And people wonder why I re-registered 'Decline to state.' They were becoming embarrassing...)

 

[chinaco]

This will be a very polarizing debate.

It is funny our economy just went through a near death experience (for the middle class mainly). Caused by the the elite (taking advantage of a lax system). Now GOP wants to kill the middle class programs that were paid for with dedicated funding.

I think they are securing Obama's reelection.

Forgive me... but here is my rant!

It just shows how disconnected they are from average people. That tea party rhetoric will end when many of those same people understand how they will be impacted.

Bottom line: The middle class will continue to pay high taxes. There will be no reduction... not matter what happens... The Middle Class funds most of it.


The GOP has a number of followers that are not their primary constituents. Those people are swayed by emotional issues such as Abortion, Guns, or divisiveness about certain social programs for the poor (e.g., I have to work... why don't they). The shame of it is that those people don't know they are being manipulated like pawns.

I am an independent. IMO certain social programs should be cut and certain spending. But I draw the line at our pension and our retirement health care (that we paid for)! I find it particularly insulting that they try to recast it as welfare (like we did not pay for it)! It is a level of arrogance, self-serving and serves such a few (their contributors)... the only word that come to mind is "Outrageous"!

It is funny how the GOP always wants cut things that are intend to protect or are for the well being of our general population.

The GOP approach to whipping up the faithful is going to be largely neutralized when many people realize that the real plan is: We will not make good on the retirement programs you have funded all of your life!

 

[nun]

This assertion that "the market" and "300M buying private health care" will control costs is the thing that I don't agree with. We have ample history in the US that the combination of hospitals, insurance companies and poorly informed consumers of a vital (literally) service is a recipe for uncontrolled costs. The only element of cost control is the subsidies the Government would give to people to buy private health care, they could be controlled leaving the retiree to pay increasingly large costs. It's a money grab by the health care industry......talk about a death tax, this will reduce your net worth at end of life far more.

 

[donheff]

It just shows how disconnected they are from average people. That tea party rhetoric will end when many of those same people understand how they will be impacted.

Regardless the merits or demerits of Ryan's Medicare prescription I just can't erase the image of Tea Party activists screaming "don't let them touch my Medicare" at health care town halls. They turned right around and elected people dedicated to doing just that.

 

[samclem]

Again, I think it's a reasonable start, and a fairly solid basic plan, but the sales brochures (PDF) are a bit overdone.

What plan should we compare it against? We all await a plan from the other side of the aisle. Still. It is supposed to be coming soon ("You go first!" "No, you go first!") Maybe it will come when Speaker Pelosi finishes the 2011 budget.

And let's not hold Ryan accountable for the "sales brochures", as they aren't his. The CBO should be producing an assessment soon. Of course, just as with the Health Care Overhaul, they'll be forced to accept all the provided assumptions in the proposed legislation, so it may not be very useful in shedding light. But, we'll have heat!

 

[dgoldenz]

I am an independent. IMO certain social programs should be cut and certain spending. But I draw the line at our pension and our retirement health care (that we paid for)! I find it particularly insulting that they try to recast it as welfare (like we did not pay for it)! It is a level of arrogance, self-serving and serves such a few (their contributors)... the only word that come to mind is "Outrageous"!

You didn't pay for it, the next generation is paying for it. Seems like a lot of people don't realize that. SS and Medicare for you are paid for by the generation after you, not funded by your own money. The kids are always paying for the parents.

SS is NOT a pension, which is exactly what's wrong with the thinking in this country. Do you think it's ok for your generation to reap the rewards of SS/Medicare if it means the next generation has to increase their taxes to pay for it, and the next generation's kids have to increase their taxes even more to pay for that generation, and so on? How's that fair to those being born today?