Join Early Retirement Today
View Poll Results: What should Congress do about "Obamacare"
Overturn Obamacare and start over 20 24.69%
Let the law stand but work to improve it 61 75.31%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Should we return to prior healthcare system
Old 12-22-2010, 02:36 PM   #1
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,638
Should we return to prior healthcare system

In the ongoing poll about healthcare virtually everyone is dissatisfied with both the pre-Obamacare status quo and with Obamacare. Many of us would prefer something closer to a single payer Euro style system. Others of us would prefer a system with much less government involvement. Given the realities of Congress and the American electorate do you believe it would be preferable for Congress to 1) Overturn Obamacare returning us to the status quo and then start over, or 2) Allow the existing (Obamacare) legislation to stand while working to improve it. Note: I realize that in real life the President would veto and overturn. But I am interested in seeing how people feel about going back or moving forward.
__________________

__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is online now  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-22-2010, 02:53 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
We should return to the medical practices of our Founding Fathers.

Allowing barbers to once again practice medicine would immediately alleviate the shortage of practitioners, although it might be best to go with more modern practices and restrict the practice of major surgery to those barber-surgeons who had completed an apprenticeship program.

Medications should similarly be limited to the apothecary standards of our Founding Fathers. This naturally would permit advanced medication such as digitalis, quinine, and calamine, along with ground mercury and herbal poultices.

The adoption of these practices would also serve to alleviate the fiscal stress on both Social Security and Medicare, as the portion of the population that would be claiming such services would naturally be significantly reduced. By simply rejecting medical activism and holding with the original state of practice as when the framers of our Constitution laid pen to paper and founded this great nation, we can readily address a host of problems within our country.

Thank you for your attention. If anyone needs me, I'll be in Switzerland...

(Not a big fan of moving backwards...)
__________________

__________________
M Paquette is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:08 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
(Not a big fan of moving backwards...)
If only it were clear where "forward" is. The previous series of events ain't a good guide for what should be "next," except to the degree that we've tried something and it doesn't work. We sure can't say we've tried the market based approach or lots of the other good ideas yet.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:24 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
...Allowing barbers to once again practice medicine would immediately alleviate the shortage of practitioners, although it might be best to go with more modern practices and restrict the practice of major surgery to those barber-surgeons who had completed an apprenticeship program....
A good barber/hair cutter is hard enough to find already!
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:31 PM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 150
Going back to the previous system is not a choice. Our healthcare system was already broken before the reform. We must go forward and expand on the current system. There are many flaws with the reform but its main purpose to get everyone covered is the right thing to do. Like education, healthcare is not a right but it is essential for a healthy society to provide for its citizens. A sick and under educated population cannot stay competitive for long.
__________________
huusom is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:33 PM   #6
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
I'd like to see significant pieces of it blown up and reworked, but I don't consider repealing it to leave the status quo in place as remotely acceptable.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 03:40 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 923
It will all blow up when people find out they have to pay $1500/month for coverage.
__________________
Disclaimer - I am an independent insurance agent. If the above message contains insurance-related content, it is NOT intended as advice, and may not be accurate, applicable or sufficient depending on specific circumstances. Don't rely on it for any purpose. I do encourage you to consult an independent agent for insurance-related advice if you have a question that is specific in nature.
dgoldenz is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:14 PM   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,929
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
It will all blow up when people find out they have to pay $1500/month for coverage.
What's the copay for leeches? Are brand name poultices covered, or only generics? If a person with prior evidence of possession applies, will future trephinations be covered?
__________________
M Paquette is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:35 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff View Post

1) Overturn Obamacare returning us to the status quo and then start over

I'm glad the 'start over' phrase was part of the poll wording, since the thread title sounds like just 'return' to status quo (I realize titles need to be short).

Yep, I think the current bill is such a mess that a complete start over is called for.

Quote:
But I am interested in seeing how people feel about going back or moving forward.
I don't see that as "either/or", I see it as we need to move backward so we can move forward. Of course I want to move "forward". I've worked on plenty of projects that after a hard, cold review, you just suck it up and realize it would be better to start over from scratch than to try to fix what you've got. If you don't have a good foundation, the fixes just become complications on top of complications and are never as good as building it right from the get-go.

So move forward, even it means taking one step back to get there.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:37 PM   #10
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
I don't see that as "either/or", I see it as we need to move backward so we can move forward. Of course I want to move "forward". I've worked on plenty of projects that after a hard, cold review, you just suck it up and realize it would be better to start over from scratch than to try to fix what you've got. If you don't have a good foundation, the fixes just become complications on top of complications and are never as good as building it right from the get-go.
I would support a "reform" of the reform to change some of the things I don't like. I could not support a complete repeal of the package because there's no assurance that (a) a different reform bill would ever be passed, leaving us with the status quo or (b) that a reform bill WILL pass -- and could actually be worse.


In other words, I'm okay with going one step backward after TWO steps forward -- but not going the full two steps back to square one.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:40 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
I like the idea of health exchanges. I wish they were not restricted to a state boundary.


But there are several provisions I have problems with.

I think the tax credit (if it stays) should only be based on a very basic plan.... the basic plan would have some form of rationing! They could offer multiple plan levels.... but an upgrade premium comes 100% out of the insureds pocket.

The mandatory coverage provision was the part of the bill that was attacked... But the tax credit is what most people do not like... it is the major cost component.


The no limit clause should be removed. Yes, the plan should have a limit that covers most catastrophic situations. But unlimited is no realistic.
__________________
chinaco is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:42 PM   #12
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,612
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
I like the idea of health exchanges. I wish they were not restricted to a state boundary.
Had they made it an interstate thing, one of the main legal objections to the law would largely go away. Had they created exchanges that crossed state lines, it would *very* clearly constitute "interstate commerce" as defined by the Constitution, and completely appropriate for Congress to create and regulate.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:50 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by huusom View Post
Going back to the previous system is not a choice. Our healthcare system was already broken before the reform. We must go forward and expand on the current system. There are many flaws with the reform but its main purpose to get everyone covered is the right thing to do. Like education, healthcare is not a right but it is essential for a healthy society to provide for its citizens. A sick and under educated population cannot stay competitive for long.

I think India is proving your last statement to be wrong...
__________________
Texas Proud is online now  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:51 PM   #14
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I would support a "reform" of the reform to change some of the things I don't like. I could not support a complete repeal of the package because there's no assurance that (a) a different reform bill would ever be passed, leaving us with the status quo or (b) that a reform bill WILL pass -- and could actually be worse.


In other words, I'm okay with going one step backward after TWO steps forward -- but not going the full two steps back to square one.
Pretty much agreed, but I took the viewpoint of the hypothetical, since donheff said:

Quote:
Note: I realize that in real life the President would veto and overturn. But I am interested in seeing how people feel about going back or moving forward.
So I took it more as 'how you feel' rather than what is practical/possible/likely.

Heck, we are all just anonymous posters on a forum, it's ALL hypothetical


-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:59 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 11,615
Here's what John Q. Public thinks (as of Dec 20, 2010):

Quote:
Fifty-five percent (55%) of voters now favor repeal of the health care law, including 40% who Strongly Favor it. Forty-one percent (41%) are opposed to repeal, with 31% Strongly Opposed. Support for repeal has ranged from 50% to 63% in weekly tracking since the bill became law in late March. Last week, support for repeal was at 60%.
A majority of those polled believe it is at least somewhat likely the law will be repealed.

According to Scott Rasmussen, one of things that would most brighten President Obama's chance for re-election is for the new law to be struck down by the Supreme Court.
__________________
"Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." - R. Heinlein
samclem is offline  
Old 12-22-2010, 09:01 PM   #16
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Had they made it an interstate thing, one of the main legal objections to the law would largely go away. Had they created exchanges that crossed state lines, it would *very* clearly constitute "interstate commerce" as defined by the Constitution, and completely appropriate for Congress to create and regulate.
What prevents health insurance from being purchased across state borders? Is this a restriction by federal law?
__________________
FreqFlyer is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 02:15 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
kyounge1956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
(snip) According to Scott Rasmussen, one of things that would most brighten President Obama's chance for re-election is for the new law to be struck down by the Supreme Court.
I would think the president is too strongly identified with the bill for repeal to increase his chances of re-election. I googled and found the article at the Rasmussen Report. An interesting point is raised:
Quote:
As Rasmussen Reports has documented, many individual components of the plan are popular, but the overall legislation remains unpopular. The unpopularity stems from the cost of the legislation in an era when voters would like to see federal spending go down rather than up.
One little-noted aspect of the debate was a disagreement over the purpose of the legislation. Most voters identified cost as the biggest problem with health care in America today, but about one-in-four said the lack of universal coverage was the top issue. Among those who see the lack of universal coverage as the biggest problem, 86% favored the legislation. However, among the majority who see cost as the biggest issue, 68% opposed the health care bill.
__________________
kyounge1956 is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 10:02 AM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
TromboneAl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
What's the copay for leeches?
It depends on whether the leech is in your network.
__________________
Al
TromboneAl is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:02 AM   #19
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I think India is proving your last statement to be wrong...
I don't think India is competitive at all. They are definitely getting better but would you want to live there? Selling cheap products at the expenses of the poor majority to enrich a small number of rich is not competitive by any means. This is the reason why India is called a developing nation and we're not.
__________________
huusom is offline  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:13 AM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by samclem View Post
Here's what John Q. Public thinks (as of Dec 20, 2010):

A majority of those polled believe it is at least somewhat likely the law will be repealed.

According to Scott Rasmussen, one of things that would most brighten President Obama's chance for re-election is for the new law to be struck down by the Supreme Court.
The poll results are suspect in my opinion. I've seen polls with total opposite results. In the end, it will depend of how much we can afford to pay as a society. The health care cost just can't keep going higher out pacing income and inflation. Those who are lucky enough to have group rate insurance think reform are not needed and those who are left to fend for themselves will say reform is needed or they will try to game to system to avoid having to pay anything at all by hiding assets, etc..
__________________

__________________
huusom is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5 steps to fixing our healthcare system dgoldenz Health and Early Retirement 32 10-07-2010 04:26 PM
Max out 401k just prior to ER? nanannjen FIRE and Money 60 11-03-2009 12:01 PM
Texas - a broken healthcare system wildcat Other topics 11 06-20-2007 08:15 AM
Advice prior to retirement kenepp1 FIRE and Money 8 03-14-2005 11:14 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:37 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.