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Old 06-26-2011, 02:02 PM   #41
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More spending on education to improve education. I think I was clear about that all along.

In post #13: "Of course more money can help ..."
Nice try Greg, at least I showed you the courtesy to not quote you out of context. But we're done, best of luck...
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from #13. You may be willing to pay ever higher taxes without positive results from the money you've already thrown at education, many of us are not. Of course more money can help, but conceivably less (or the same) money used more wisely could also help - wouldn't the latter be more desirable?
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:32 PM   #42
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I want students to learn more and better.
No amount of money in the world can MAKE a student learn........

I think your above sentence needs some editing.......
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:37 PM   #43
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And quite possibly for less hair to cut ...
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:40 PM   #44
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No amount of money in the world can MAKE a student learn........
Well said.

They need to realize that they are stakeholders in their education (did I just say that? Something from when I wor*ed for a living ).

Without commitment from all parties to a contract, there is no reason to think that the results will be to benefit each party...
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Old 06-27-2011, 05:30 PM   #45
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No amount of money in the world can MAKE a student learn........

I think your above sentence needs some editing.......
Nothing I said implies I think money can make students learn. On a system level, money is a necessary but not sufficient condition for effective education.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #46
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Nothing I said implies I think money can make students learn. On a system level, money is a necessary but not sufficient condition for effective education.
Yet you advocate throwing more money at it?
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:59 PM   #47
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Yet you advocate throwing more money at it?
Yes, because on a system level, money is a necessary condition for effective education. Say, are you listening?
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Old 07-01-2011, 04:11 PM   #48
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Say, are you listening?
"In the lane, snow is glistening..."

Who knows the next line?
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Old 07-01-2011, 05:23 PM   #49
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"In the lane, snow is glistening..."

Who knows the next line?
A beautiful sight
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:15 PM   #50
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My son is finishing his last 2 years of high school years using an upstart private internet school. He is just completing his junior year. They just had their first graduating class of three students. It is part of a well known university, however, they just open their doors a couple of years ago with the internet high school program and received their accreditation just over a year ago.

I had to pull him out of an excellent school as his attendance was spotty due to health problems which we are working on and seem to be resolving themselves now that there is no rigid school schedule.

The future of education is getting information in an organized manner to the student, not necessarily in a classroom.

I think we will see more on line courses to supplement the traditional classes. Hopefully technology can help bring some of the costs down.
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #51
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The future of education is getting information in an organized manner to the student, not necessarily in a classroom.

I think we will see more on line courses to supplement the traditional classes. Hopefully technology can help bring some of the costs down.
I sort of half-way agree. I don't think education consists in conveying information to students -- they have to learn to think, which involves more than just absorbing information -- but I don't expect the traditional physical classroom to endure much longer. I taught an on line course a few years ago, which was quite a lot of work for me, because the software tools available were so primitive. But it was interesting, and good for the students, I thought. I wonder if any of you have read the classic sci-fi story by A. E. van Vogt, The World of Null-A, where van Vogt envisions an artificial intelligence education machine capable of constructing individualized aptitude tests. That's what I think our future will be like.
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:51 PM   #52
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Yes, because on a system level, money is a necessary condition for effective education. Say, are you listening?
You're the retired educator, both my parents are retired educators, and my sister taught at a major university, I thought we could have an intelligent dialogue........

The educational system is broken, and there are many reasons for it. However, like the war on drugs, throwing billions and billions at it has not seemed to work. Other options are necessary. Our village has a $45 million budget, $31 million goes to the school district, and noone can tell me clearly what we are getting for our $31 million, sounds like a problem, no?
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:04 PM   #53
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I don't think education consists in conveying information to students -- they have to learn to think
Do you seriously believe that your local school system (K-12) is helping students to "learn to think" in any meaningful way? Our local schools do almost nothing to encourage thinking and our state just dumbed down their graduation requirements to improve the graduation rate (and called it an improvement in schools).

We have had referendums to raise funding for education. That money has gone to fancy buildings, increased central office staff, attacking and dismantling neighborhood programs which showed signs of developing strong local support which might be politically threatening and funding a series of crony contracts which have only recently been discovered. During that time when we increased funding, class sizes rose, test scores dropped, art and music programs were discontinued and athletics turned into pay-to-play system. More money at the district level is not just useless, it is harmful.

If you want to improve education through increased funding, give to local schools or even local classrooms. The district will still do what they can to stifle your program, but at least you have a chance of helping kids' education before the district can act.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:01 PM   #54
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Generally speaking, show me parents who truly value education and make their child understand this concept, I will show you a child who behaves and graduates!
I know you stated generally speaking but not in my case.

I have been out of HS for 46 years. My parents wanted me to do good in school. The teachers and my parents tried to make me behave but I did not want to listen to anyone back then. I did graduate by the way and went to college for one year. I decided I had enough of sitting in a classroom and I joined the AF. Best thing I ever did.

I think when someone turns 14 they should decide if they want to attend school or attend a trade school. Classrooms are not for everybody. I have not seen to many people with a skill out of work lately but I have seen many college graduates out of work. Maybe not making someone attend school after 14 would help solve many of the school problems today. That is if they attend a trade school and not hit the streets.

As for whats wrong with schools today I could tell you what I really think but I would be banned from this site.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:09 PM   #55
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Generally speaking, show me parents who truly value education and make their child understand this concept, I will show you a child who behaves and graduates!
Precisely. No amount of money thrown at a school will ever significantly improve outcomes, IMO, unless it somehow transforms the community culture into one where parents are involved, active and place emphasis on education for their kids.

Doubling the funding of a school in a neighborhood where education isn't emphasized and where parents can't/won't take an active role is money down the toilet. As I said before, I'm not against spending to improve educational outcomes. I just don't think a blank check given directly to the schools is the way to go. Most of the problems failing schools are facing aren't directly curable inside the campus.
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