We Just Paid Over $750,000 for EACH GM Job Saved?

[Midpack]

Unless my math is wrong, we are now on the hook for $50B with GM $20B spent and $30 promised.

Last night on CNN their CFO said the new GM will have about 40,000 hourly and 25,000 salaried in the USA.

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job. As far as I am concerned, that's an unconscionable outrage. And who says it won't be more...

These are still jobs that pay far more wages and benefits than most Americans enjoy - including a lot of taxpayers who make less but are now on the hook to help them. The nonsense about two tier wages is smoke, who do you think gets laid off, the senior top tier guys or the second tier? All the other millions of Americans who have lost their jobs, just can't offer up the UAW campaign contributions/voting block, so they get --- nothing. They are on their own. That's crap.

I have been writing my Congressmen all along and even more so now. Hopefully others are too.

And in case you are wondering why I did not use the 200,000 or so GM employees worldwide as my denominator - I am upset enough about spending a fortune on US autoworkers, I certainly don't feel any obligation to save jobs outside the US with my tax dollars.

End of rant

 

[Westernskies]

End of rant

...for now.

 

[FinanceDude]

Unless my math is wrong, we are now on the hook for $50B with GM $20B spent and $30 promised.

Last night on CNN their CFO said the new GM will have about 40,000 hourly and 25,000 salaried in the USA.

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job. As far as I am concerned, that's an unconscionable outrage. And who says it won't be more...

These are still jobs that pay far more wages and benefits than most Americans enjoy - including a lot of taxpayers who make less but are now on the hook to help them. The nonsense about two tier wages is smoke, who do you think gets laid off, the senior top tier guys or the second tier? All the other millions of Americans who have lost their jobs, just can't offer up the UAW campaign contributions/voting block, so they get --- nothing. They are on their own. That's crap.

I have been writing my Congressmen all along and even more so now. Hopefully others are too.

And in case you are wondering why I did not use the 200,000 or so GM employees worldwide as my denominator - I am upset enough about spending a fortune on US autoworkers, I certainly don't feel any obligation to save jobs outside the US with my tax dollars.

End of rant

How's that for "redistribution of wealth"??

 

[Westernskies]

How's that for "redistribution of wealth"??

... its a start!

 

[armor99]

There is a certain group of people that believe that the intention of an action is what makes it valuble, and not the result of that action. As in.... we want to "help" the workers of GM. Sounds good.... helping people and all. However, if you were to show the facts of the matter, 700k per person comming from the taxpayer, they would actually get mad at you for pointing out the facts, and the truth. For this group of people, the outcome is of little to no consequence. As long as they can "believe" they are helping people, that is good enough. (This explains why they get mad when you point out the truth, you are stopping them from believing they are helping people.). It is a belief system that in my opinion, borders on a mental disorder. I am curious what a psycologist would make of it.

 

[Midpack]

There is a certain group of people that believe that the intention of an action is what makes it valuble, and not the result of that action. As in.... we want to "help" the workers of GM. Sounds good.... helping people and all. However, if you were to show the facts of the matter, 700k per person comming from the taxpayer, they would actually get mad at you for pointing out the facts, and the truth. For this group of people, the outcome is of little to no consequence. As long as they can "believe" they are helping people, that is good enough. (This explains why they get mad when you point out the truth, you are stopping them from believing they are helping people.). It is a belief system that in my opinion, borders on a mental disorder. I am curious what a psycologist would make of it.

It's been my experience (at work) that reducing these arguments to something people can relate to, often $'s, actually makes most people come to their senses. The remaining group that just wants to help, 'don't bother me with facts, my mind is made up,' are fortunately the minority - and they usually come around (or shut up) because the majority do change their thinking.

I am not against helping GM employees or anyone else, within reason. But that's why I did some numbers, there is no plausible way I can imagine to put $760,000 per job in the "within reason" category, it's lunacy IMO. Especially since most everyone else losing their job in this mess will get no special help, and the rest of us are paying for it.

 

[clifp]

Look at the bright side we also get 60% of the company, and $9 billion in bonds and preferred stock with a 9% coupon. It is certainly possibly that GM will emerge as profitable company. So while I am sure that the $20 billion we spent initially is wasted money, I think there is a 1/2 chance that the 30 billion debtor in possession financing will be repaid. So it may only cost $300-400K per job.

 

[Zathras]

That number is interesting, but doesn't really give an accurate picture. It is more emotionally provoking than useful.
Let me say I am and have been against the bailouts. But I don't think one needs to resort to emotional grandstanding to get that point across.
By this reasoning, how would you feel about an organization in which the taxpayers by $200,000 per employee just for the last year and has paid a similar amount over each of the last number of years, and probably will continue to do so in the future?
How about a small business with 15 employees that borrows 30 Million dollars?
Holy COW, that is $2,500,000 per employee, there must be something corrupt going on there.
Frankly, I don't think GM is going to change and I don't believe we will be repaid any of the money invested. Total waste of funds and will sink us deeper in debt. The same money used to invest in a number of small companies or upgrading our electric grid would be far more advantageous to us and our economy (IMO).

 

[kumquat]

So taxpayers are on the hook for a little over $769,000 for EACH GM job.

Consider yourselves lucky. I think us Canucks paid over $1M.

 

[Gumby]

There really is a limit on the number of times we can all repeat our ideological talking points. Time to move on to something more useful.