Spain

[claire]

Myself and my husband just returned from a trip to spain recently and were amazed at the high quality of life and VERY CHEAP cost of living. I should say that we spent most of our time in the mountains in the granada (andalucia ) area, and one night in the city of granada, i would say that it is about a third cheaper than the cost of living here in the UK..

But even the city of granada was still very cheap....

So I just thought i would write and let you all know about it as a possible place for ER. The downside is i think that in that area, not everyone speaks english.

I saw an apartment in the mountains for 60k euros and a four bedroom town house in the city of granada for 90 k euros!!!

a cup of cofee was 1eruo !!! This is about 70 pence!! This is very cheap compared to prices over here.

 

[dex]

Wasn't the Costa de Sol one of the favorite retirement destinations for the English years ago?
Is that too pricey now?

 

[Maximillion]

Spain is Florida for the Brits.

RE was really cheap, pre Euro, when the country went ECU all the hidden money had to be converted so it rushed into RE pushing up prices, but not to FLA levels.

Spain is great, easy access to other countries and a hell of a lot more to do than go mall shopping.

Large cities are seeing an increase in crime, but not at U.S. levels, Madrid is a fun city.

Portugal is less expensive, a little more relaxed.

 

[youbet]

Max, how does Spain compare to Canada in terms of cost of living, crime, quality of life, etc?

 

[Maximillion]

Spain has lower cost of living, crime comparable, quality of life is an Individual Definition in that you are there and your family are elsewhere.

Childless or Single Senior, it would be Seville and Sangria and Senoritas.

Zip over to Italy for a weekend, or to the South of France, if it doesn't get done today, it will get done eventually,

The only Bull I would have to fight is in the arena, ole.

Florida is becoming an increasing turn off as property values decline, Insurance Rates go up, Hurricanes exist, and the thought of living in a place where everybody is packing a sidearm, Spain is on our winter agenda.

Air Fares are very affordable and rival cost of gas and hotels in driving for 2 days,a nd, oh those Spanish Women, Jennifer Lopez without the attitude.

 

[Maximillion]

http://www.britishexpat.com/expatforum/spain/index.php

 

[claire]

Dex - there is a lot more to the costa del sol than the egg and chips brigade!, Certainly the coastal areas are expensive and full of brits, but it depends what you want, if you want to be on the coast malaga/marbella then yes not cheap at all, but if you prefer lakes/mountains like me then you could do well....

Ive been to florida recently and i didnt find it particularly cheap there at all, i suppose like everywhere the usa has its cheap and not so cheap areas....

 

[youbet]

Florida is becoming an increasing turn off

For many of us, Florida was never a turn on!

Again, focusing on Spain vs Canada, you'd go for Spain for retirement full time or to spend, say, 50% of your time there?

Thanks for the url. Interesting.

 

[Maximillion]

My Wife would never spend Christmas away from family, we would go for three or four months.

Flights leave several times dailiy from TO, leave at Breakfast, be there for supper.

Portugal is also delightful, less costly, much slower pace, the Azores is on our future hit list, she just has to be convinced to leave the dog at home for a month.

I am always overwhelmed when I stand on the same spot where Columbus left for America or where some huge battle took place between the Spanish and the Moors, I just love the feel of historic places, of visiting a Monastic retreat etc.

I think if I was an American, I would make it a pilgramage to visit the village of my ancestors, I have Australian Friends who did that, it was a major event in their life.

I have done that, visitid the small place in North Yorkshire where I was born, spooky, in the graveyard was a marker bearing the same name as one of my brothers, some long dead kin.

 

[youbet]

That's great Max. Thanks.

I was asking you to focus on comparing Spain to Canada because your comments about Canada indicate you are very pleased with Canada and your situation there. So, for you to say that Spain would be a better place to spend retirement time, at least a few months a year, than Canada, well, that says a lot.

And again, thanks for sending the url. Really interesting.

 

[Maximillion]

I am thinking of the first months of the year when it gets snowy up here.

If the choice was one or the other, I would stay with the Blue Mountains and sojourns down south.

We are not able to just lie around a pool, we would rather see stuff.

Florida, if we stayed there for awhile, we would get into Civil War sites and Plantation Homes.

Georgia is kind of neat to visit,a lot of history and the people seem quite easy going.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Florida is becoming an increasing turn off as property values decline, Insurance Rates go up, Hurricanes exist, and the thought of living in a place where everybody is packing a sidearm, Spain is on our winter agenda.

hey, don't discount south florida home values too quickly. we've got scripps moving into north palm beach county, a harvard associated teaching hospital talking about opening here, miami u. expanding jackson memorial, a state u. opening a new teaching hospital in boca raton. the trend is to turn south florida into the silicon valley of biotech industry where 2-bedroom/1-bath houses will go for $900k plus (in my dreams).

here in sunny, oceanside south florida, we don't bubble. we only take a dip.

this message brought to you by the greater tri-county south florida chamber of commerce. thank you for your support.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

hey, don't discount south florida home values too quickly.

Gotta go with LG4NB here. I came to the Gulf Coast for a career opportunity (and the weather, having dewinterized in Tucson). While the career decision was easy, I must admit the Florida part was a turn-off in my biased mind: all the usual stereotypes.

Not only was I wrong, but we really have taken to the area. Notwithstanding hurricane risk (versus that of annual grid-locking blizzards, tornadoes, 9-month winters, mudslides, brushfires, earthquakes, 110 degrees for 4 months straight in other locales), the weather is awesome. Population is diverse, economy is booming. Living is as safe as any place if you use common sense. The beaches are a regular part of our weekend recreation. We don't have dramatic mountains but it might surprise many how beautiful the Everglades are, the nature coast, etc. It ain't perfect, but sure is nice.

Read somewhere that 1100 people a day are moving here despite a run of bad hurricane seasons. Property values here are sagging a bit but not dropping noticeably.

So, I'm not sure quite what it is, but like it or not, you probably don't want to bet against Florida's economy or housing market.

 

[Maximillion]

I am not sure what post I pulled up, but it did say Miami/ South Florida, the properties are definitly losing their values.

I think my major concern would be not able to insure the property, which I gather is a real problem.

Tampa Traffic Jams are amongst the worse I have been stuck in.

Extremely frustrating.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

that wasn't a traffic jam; the bridge was up. next time you're stuck on the causeway between clearwater beach and tampa just put the top down, spread on some lotion and relax.

ya, south florida has lost some value, but after you go up 35% three years in a row, a 12% dip doesn't phase ya much. market should recapture that before the year's out. condo's built/bought on spec could lose 20% or more but single family seems pretty solid. insurance is getting to be annoying.

however, you don't have to fly so far and you get to not understand just as much spanish as if you moved to spain.

 

[Lusitan]

Portugal is also delightful, less costly, much slower pace, the Azores is on our future hit list, she just has to be convinced to leave the dog at home for a month.

I agree. And the food and wine are pretty nice too!

 

[steinj]

Hi Claire,

I lived in Spain for 3 years, moved back to Canada in mid 2002 and visited Spain again last Fall. When we lived there and the Euro was 85 cents US it was cheap. Unfortunately it has become a lot more expensive with the conversion to the Euro and the strength of the Euro to the point that I would now say Spain is more expensive than Canada. When we went back in the fall we were surprised at how much the prices had gone up. Real estate is soaring. Groceries are a lot higher, gas is higher etc. In Canada, real estate is still reasonable in many places (excluding Toronto and Vancouver), gas is ALOT lower, groceries are lower. All that being said, I would move back to Spain in a heart beat - loved the people, the culture, the attitude, the way of life. You can still live reasonably in the small towns but Madrid, Barcelona etc are expensive. JoJo

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Jo Jo Girl said:

In Canada, real estate is still reasonable in many places (excluding Toronto and Vancouver)

And Calgary, love.

Thanks for your update. Living in a place is different than visiting.

Ed

 

[modhatter]

Hey Lazygoodfornothing,

Talked to my sister the other day and she tells me she just read that Scripps may be relocating down to Boca. Have you heard anything about that?

What area are all those other things you mentioned planned for. I have a house in Jupiter that I'm going back to try and sell soon.

 

[chris2008]

Spain is for retired Germans what Florida is for the US.
A lot of ERs move down in their 50s or 6os for good climate and lower cost of living.
BUT: if you do not want to stick in your group of seniors you should be capable of the spanish language. Often people forget about that.
And it is horrible to be stuck in a hospital or caregiving facility one far day if you can hardly communicate with the locals.

 

[Maximillion]

I know what you mean Chris, I visited an emergency Room in Georgia, had a tough time figuring out what they were saying

Many people in Spain speak English, especially the professionals.

In Spain, prior to going into the ECU, most business' kept two sets of books to avoid taxes, when they went into the ECU they had to convert to Euros, thus the stampede to buy real estate.

All countries that went Euro experianced a dramatic increase in living costs, just ask the Germans, what took a Deutsche Mark now took a Euro.

 

[Maximillion]

Hey bum, no need for Spanish in Florida, when was the last time you were in Miami?

Why does every U.S Customs Officer speak with a Russian accent?

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

she just read that Scripps may be relocating down to Boca...
What area are all those other things you mentioned planned for...I have a house in Jupiter that I'm going back to try and sell soon.

we had our money on boca but you won in jupiter. i still think boca was the smarter site but one lone commissioner voted north because a developer there gave her low income constituents $5 million or so which she gets to distribute. i wasn't upset that she got paid off, only that boca didn't double the offer.

boca housing prices would have gotten a huge boost. in the northern county, where there is still land, the boost will be less felt but the confidence level sure goes up. benefits should run throughout south(east) florida and trickle the state in general.

there is a split site at abacoa in jupiter and in palm beach gardens for scripps. but the entire tri-county area of dade, broward and palm beach is being targeted for the biotech. teaching hospital currently in dade has a $700 + million expansion planned, fau in boca is cranking up a new medical college complete with teaching hospital and heart & cancer centers. the harvard-associated hospital will probably go in jupiter. all this should bring in venture capitalists and so an industry is born.

as to your jupiter house, now might not be the time to sell. as maximillion notes, we have taken a downturn since last season. realtors i've had to my house suggest the market will come back by year's end barring another hurricane bashing us. seems the biggest losses are in spec condos with single family losing some but not as much. inventory has gone from a two month's supply to a year's supply and houses are no longer selling overnight but might actually take 90 days if priced right. some people see a bubble, other's a dip. i think it just went back to normal.

Hey bum, no need for Spanish in Florida, when was the last time you were in Miami?

ya, no need unless you like eavesdropping or just a sense of still being in the u.s.a.

between spanish and other international tourists, you can walk five blocks down here before hearing english.

 

[steinj]

Ed,

You're right - forget those recent soaring prices in Calgary. How do you like living in Alberta? You are American if I remember correctly from another thread. Do you see a big difference in standard of living? I just got back from a vacation in Northern BC - desolation sound. Stunning scenery and wildlife (dolphins, seals, sea lions, bald eagles). Go if you have a chance - one of those places you have to see in this lifetime.

JoJo

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Hi, Jo Jo,

I like Alberta. It is kind of like Colorado with fewer people and cooler weather. I like the cold weather. I am quite fond of Ft MacMurray, but it sure would have been nice to have a good vehicle (I was on foot) and a nice place to live (I lived in single rooms in shared houses). I like Calgary and Edmonton, too. The standard of living is the same as back home, as far as I can tell. (There are a lot of bums up here, though. I wonder why?)

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. My dad, a Forester, took us places that I never knew existed and could never find again. It was a great place to grow up. I will have to visit Desolation Sound some day. Thanks for the recommendation.

Ed