What does the term "ER" mean to U?

[rs0460a]

After reading this forum’s content the last few months, I started to think about the term “ER” and what it actually means.

The term is referred to in discussion http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=5392.15 but only as an acronym.

I don’t want to start an “argument”, but I do want to know what your definition of ER is.  I have my own, but I’ll let others contribute before I comment (no, I’m not afraid of being “beat up” – I’m just being a “gentleman”!)

According to Webster’s, one of the definitions of “retirement” is “withdrawal from one's position or occupation or from active working life”.

Consideration of this statement must include the definition of “active working life”.  If I work part-time (my decision) am I retired?  My son is disabled and receives a Social Security check (SSD – based upon his income when he was working).  Being that he’s also on Medicare, does this make him “retired” (actually ER) since he has “withdrawn from his position”?

Does being retired actually mean both people in a “partnership” arrangement?  My FIL worked in a mill for 35 years; my MIL stayed home during that time to maintain the household and raise the kids.  Did he retire (when he left the mill?)  Did my MIL ever “retire” (according to the dictionary, she never “withdrew from her position”)!

Like the word “millionaire”, the term ER could (and does) have several “interpretations”.

What’s yours?

- Ron

 

[Jarhead*]

Ron: I retired 20 years ago. Like your in-laws, my wife never worked outside of household.
After kids were pretty much raised, we left the area, and built a home in N. Calif. We never had a windfall, (Stock Options, Inheritence, nor will ever receive one).

Your question is a valid one. Especially on a board like this, where visitors are trying to get a handle on whether they can financially retire on their assetts.

For me personally, (for practical purposes, and no other reason), I tend to lose interest in a posters game plan when one member of the household is still working, and contributing income, health ins. etc.

I stumbled onto this board about 2 and a half years ago, and have found that I have very little in common (financially) with the majority of the posters. However, the entertainment value has kept me in the ball-game.

In any case, my definition of "retired" (as relates to this board), is the absence of earned income in the household.

 

[Eagle43]

[quote

Ron:  I retired 20 years ago.  Like your in-laws, my wife never worked outside of household.
After kids were pretty much raised, we left the area, and built a home in N. Calif.  We never had a windfall, (Stock Options, Inheritence, nor will ever receive one).

Your question is a valid one.  Especially on a board like this, where visitors are trying to get a handle on whether they can financially retire on their assetts.

For me personally, (for practical purposes, and no other reason), I tend to lose interest in a posters game plan when one member of the household is still working, and contributing income, health ins. etc.

I stumbled onto this board about 2 and a half years ago, and have found that I have very little in common (financially) with the majority of the posters.  However, the entertainment value has kept me in the ball-game.

In any case, my definition of "retired" (as relates to this board), is the absence of earned income in the household.

Jarhead, you right, man.  No earned income in this household.  However, there are those who would dispute whether anything I ever received was "earned".   Now, my only assignment is to live as long as you.  It's tough, but somebody's gotta do it.

 

[brewer12345]

Interesting to hear your thoughts, Jarhead.  

I guess I don't really mentally separate the FI from the RE of FIRE.  If you have the cabbage to RE, then you are your own person and are no longer beholden to a paycheck/employer.  IOW, you can do what you damn well please.  If that includes working in some fashion, who am I to turn my nose up at what someone wants to do with their time?

As for the "non-working" spouse, I think that in most cases I wouldn't consider them "retired" until the kids are grown up.

 

[poboy]

I worked, wife worked. Neither of us works now.  Total attitude change .  Every day is saturday.  Do what we want.  I guess that sums it up.  

 

[retire@40]

...If I work part-time (my decision) am I retired?...

You are semi-retired.  

To me, semi-retirement means working anywhere from 1 to about 20 hours a week on average where YOU decide the number of hours of work you will do and YOU decide when you are going to work.  Ideally, you want to find a low-stress or no-stress job for yourself that allows you to stop working after you reach a certain dollar amount.

 

[retire@40]

For me personally, (for practical purposes, and no other reason), I tend to lose interest in a posters game plan when one member of the household is still working, and contributing income, health ins. etc.

In any case, my definition of "retired" (as relates to this board), is the absence of earned income in the household.

I agree. When there is still someone in the household bringing in earned income of any kind or has a job providing health insurance for the household, at best you could say you are semi-retired.

 

[rs0460a]

I agree.  When there is still someone in the household bringing in earned income of any kind or has a j*b providing health insurance for the household, at best you could say you are semi-retired.

Ok, here I go!

Yes, for me the above, and the reference of Jarhead of "absence of earned income in the household" fits my idea of the actual term of "retirement".

Now for some fun  .  I guess that we jointly think that CFB is not actually retired!!!!

- Ron

 

[REWahoo]

Now for some fun . I guess that we jointly think that CFB is not actually retired!!!!

- Ron

I try not to let my joint do my thinking for me.

Of course he isn't retired. He works full time as an auto buyer.

nm

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I try not to let my joint do my thinking for me.
Of course he isn't retired. He works full time as an auto buyer.

nm

Just curious: how did you get your joint a job as an auto buyer?

 

[setab]

So, let me understand. If I have a DBP which includes health insurance I cannot be considered retired? Most of us former feds will never get to be retired then. Also, if my spouse works part time, I'm not retired? How does her/his job have anthing to do with me? My spouse could make $15,000 a year, and I wouldn't be retired, but someone bringing in $150,000 in dividends is retired just because their income is passive. As we say out here in Iowa, I'm cornfused.

setab

 

[unclemick]

Same as with stocks and stuff.

I keep telling you people - ti's da hormones man - it's the hormones.

Why don't you cats listen!

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh

 

[REWahoo]

So, let me understand. If I have a DBP which includes health insurance I cannot be considered retired?

I think the poster specifically mentioned health care as the result of having a job:

...or has a j*b providing health insurance for the household, at best you could say you are semi-retired.

Don't see having health insurance as a pension benefit as having any impact on the definition of being "retired". Now on how quickly you can get to retirement, that's an entirely different story.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

I know I'm retired because I'm just like all those old retirees who were in my way when I was at the grindstone:

1. I get my hair cut at lunch just to annoy the working guys who only have an hour.
2. I go to Walgreens for Frappacino at 7:45 just to clog the line. Make em late.
3. I act befuddled and slow at counting out change when a long queue is behind me.
4. I stop mid aisle with my cart and act puzzled.

A bit of fun in the Golden Years.

 

[grumpy]

We all seem to be talking past the question here. The real issue, as I see it is: how to interpret advice about funding your lifestyle in retirement from someone who has a working spouse or some other source of earned income if you don't expect to have such a source when you are "retired". I think we all tend to place more weight on advice from someone who is in the same or similar circumstances to ourselves. If I expect to have income only from a DBP and investments when I retire, then advice from someone who is "retired" but has a full time working spouse probably won't be too relevant. In the end it doesn't really matter how "retired" is defined as long as we make our circumstances explicit and don't expect everyone to interpret the state of being "retired" the same way.

Grumpy

 

[rs0460a]

I know I'm retired because I'm just like all those old retirees who were in my way when I was at the grindstone:

1.  I get my hair cut at lunch just to annoy the working guys who only have an hour.
2.  I go to Walgreens for Frappacino at 7:45 just to clog the line.  Make em late.
3.  I act befuddled and slow at counting out change when a long queue is behind me.
4.  I stop mid aisle with my cart and act puzzled.

A bit of fun in the Golden Years.

I bet you do your grocery shopping at noon on a Saturday, also?

(I thought I saw your #4 last week...)

- Ron

 

[retire@40]

...or has a j*b providing health insurance for the household, at best you could say you are semi-retired.

Don't see having health insurance as a pension benefit as having any impact on the definition of being "retired".

I never said having health insurance as a pension benefit as having any impact on the definition of being retired.  I said having a job providing health insurance for the household.  There is a difference.

Having the additional comfort or security of having someone in the household bringing in cash and benefits is a huge help.  If you need $40K a year to "retire" and you have $800,000 in assets AND you have a spouse bringing in enough funds and benefits to allow you to take less than a 4% draw on your assets, it would be disingenuous to say you retired on $800,000.

 

[dory36]

I'm not sure it makes much difference. The "FI" and "RE" acronyms were combined long ago because so many of the issues are the same.

Retired versus semi-retired versus FI/working? I think it has to be what you are doing and why.

To paraphrase the definition of "rich" from a Scott Burns column recently discussed elsewhere, if you are doing what you want, and you wouldn't change things much or at all if the money changed significantly, then you have achieved what people work a lifetime to achieve, and whether you call it "retired" or something else, you're doing what you want.

If you are no longer getting a paycheck, but feel you have to spend 25+ hours a month managing your stock investments, one could say that you are even less "retired" than the person who needs to work for a paycheck 10-20 hours a month to meet their income wants and needs.  

 

[setab]

We all seem to be talking past the question here.  The real issue, as I see it is:  how to interpret advice about funding your lifestyle in retirement from someone who has a working spouse or some other source of earned income if you don't expect to have such a source when you are "retired".  I think we all tend to place more weight on advice from someone who is in the same or similar circumstances to ourselves.  If I expect to have income only from a DBP and investments when I retire, then advice from someone who is "retired" but has a full time working spouse probably won't be too relevant.  In the end it doesn't really matter how "retired" is defined as long as we make our circumstances explicit and don't expect everyone to interpret the state of being "retired" the same way.

   Grumpy

Well said.  I agree.

setab

 

[Jarhead*]

We all seem to be talking past the question here.  The real issue, as I see it is:  how to interpret advice about funding your lifestyle in retirement from someone who has a working spouse or some other source of earned income if you don't expect to have such a source when you are "retired".  I think we all tend to place more weight on advice from someone who is in the same or similar circumstances to ourselves.  If I expect to have income only from a DBP and investments when I retire, then advice from someone who is "retired" but has a full time working spouse probably won't be too relevant.  In the end it doesn't really matter how "retired" is defined as long as we make our circumstances explicit and don't expect everyone to interpret the state of being "retired" the same way.

   Grumpy

Hey Grumpster: I believe you're the only poster so far that interpreted correctly what I was trying to say.

Good job. Especially impressive is the fact that you're so young and inexperienced.

Regards, Jarhead

 

[SteveR]

So, what is the definition of is?

There are many different ways to define ER and each one here has their own. Here is mine.

ER is the cessation of a career j*b prior to age 65. Individuals within a household can be retired and still perform some type of w*rk for pay. As others have said, this is semi-retirement. Full retirement would be living on non-wage or non-business income.

Pensions, portfolios, cash, IRAs, 40X(x), and related non-wage non-business incomes are the basis for retirement income streams. Business income..including rentals is a grey area but smells like earned income to me so I would say this income would put someone in the semi-retired pigeon hole.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

i always thought of retired as not having to worry about money. when i was w*rking and when mom held the cash, i never had to worry about it.

now that i'm not w*rking and i'll be coming into a windfall of mom's cash, i'm worried about money. so maybe now i am not retired.

I know I'm retired because I'm just like all those old retirees who were in my way when I was at the grindstone:

5) oap plans florida vacation so he can drive slowly in the left hand lane of i-95 with right blinker forever on.

 

[Sheryl]

There are as many definitions as there are Eary Retirees.

Personally I am annoyed by headlines like, "Many Americans Plan to Work after Retiring" In my mind they are not retired, then, just working at a different job.

I guess if you want to define retirement as leaving your full-time career work for something else, that's up to you, but it doesn't make sense to me.

At most it is semi-retired.

 

[astromeria]

Despite the fact that my husband still works, I am surely retired. I have no boss, sleep as late as I like, do what I want to every day, and we even pay more for health insurance through DH's college instructor job than many retirees do. He gets 4 months of vacation a year and feels semi-retired himself. I switched to part-time telecommuting at age 52 (ranged from 5 to 30 hours a week, mostly 10-15 hrs), then resigned at age 55. I get no pension, no deferred compensation, and no retiree health insurance, so in some respects I am "more retired" (more separated from the work world anyway) than those who get any of those forms of work-based compensation.

 

[Nords]

Man, now I feel so dirty taking that focus group $100.

Oh, wait, they were reimbursing my expenses, so I don't have to report that as earned income. Whew!

Just curious: how did you get your joint a job as an auto buyer?

It's not what you know. It's who you have to sleep with.