Did you find that the endless free time wasn't really that way?

[Surfdaddy]

I'm probably 2-3 years from FIRE, but was having a thought.

About 15 years ago I did a two year night school Master's degree program. While reasonably fun to do, it was also a lot of time and work. Two nights a week at school. Lots of extra reading. Many weekends with long projects, many team projects with other students. Rehearsing presentations.

I remember thinking "wow, I'll be glad when I finish my degree. I'll have all that free time back".

So you can guess, within a few months of finishing school I was as busy as ever. I don't know where the spare time went, I managed to fill it up and still feel I need more free time.

One of my big motivations for FIRE is to have all that extra time to do whatever I want--the things I don't have time for right now.

Yet based upon my Master's degree experience, I have this sort of fear that once I've retired for a while, I'll wonder how I ever fit in work. And maybe I'll still want more free time.... except that there won't be any major thing I do left to give up to get more time!

In your experiences, is that how it goes?
If so, I wonder if this says something about how enjoyment of life is finding pleasure in whatever time you have available, whether much or little...

 

[sgeeeee]

There's never enough time to experience everything I would like.

 

[chinaco]

I did the same night school thing while working... to get a Masters. Did it also for part of my Bachelors. It is like working two jobs.


Here is how I look at it. I am a driven person on certain dimensions. I will and can throw myself into something of interest (or a challenge) and it seems fulfilling (even if it is work).

But if I go back in time to about 18 or 19 years old... I was much more carefree and less obsessed with certain achievements in life. I intend to balance it out. I will beam myself back to that 18 to 19 year old mentality... but in a more mature way... I will focus on things that yield great satisfaction to me personally.

I like to travel.
I like to play the guitar (compose music).
I like to learn new things. (read, take classes, try things)
I get satisfaction helping people (will probably volunteer some)
I like to drink beer
I like to drink beer
Did I mention I like to drink beer. (oops gotta watch that one... too much of a good thing can cause problems)

I am hoping that I do not have much spare time! I believe that there are many things that I can do to fill my time. And I want to fill it with things that are meaningful. I think the difference is going to be my goals will change. The urgency of trying to acquire FI will subside and work stress will subside. Now it is time to enjoy what DW and I have labored for over the last 30 years.

 

[audreyh1]

It wasn't but a few months into retirement when I seriously started wondering how I had ever had any time to go to work!!!

Audrey

 

[grumpy]

For me, retirement is not just about having free time, its about having time to do the things I choose to do, not what others choose for me to do. This does not result in any greater amount of idleness than when I was employed unless I choose for it to. I admit that I do choose to sometimes just sit on the patio with a cup of coffee and listen to the birds in the woods and enjoy the sun on my face. So in that sense I do have more free time. I choose to fill my time with the things I enjoy doing. Its wonderful!

Grumpy

 

[TromboneAl]

One of my expressions (that I got from this forum): "I wake up with nothing to do, and at the end of the day, I have only gotten half of it done."

But seriously, sometimes I'm busy, but I usually feel like I've got plenty of free time. Typical day, breakfast, Internet, practice, surf or chop wood, lunch with beer, read book, take nap, futz around, dinner, TV or read. On alternate days, surf or chop wood is replaced with futz around.

So, for me the answer is: yes I still feel that I have lots of free time, and I like it that way. I still haven't gotten over the feeling that there's something I should be doing.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I had more free time when I was at work.

But the engaged time was usually spent pursuing fairly ridiculous tasks accompanied by ridiculous people with ridiculous alternative objectives.

This is better.

 

[Hanno]

What I'm most afraid of in ample free time situations, is the danger of living a lifestyle of laziness.

Before I get a few days off, I'm always making a list of the books I intend to read, the subjects I want to pursue, the quiet thinking time I want to have, etc. The end result is that I read half a book, two wikipedia articles and get 20 minutes of free time. The rest of the time is wasted on checking the same forums on the internet over and over again.

I really want to do all the stuff I planned to do. But in the actual moment, the allure of seeing what new stuff were posted on this board is stronger than the allure of a medieval history book.

 

[TromboneAl]

Yes, but that's OK.

I once worked on clam boats, and it was extremely hard work. The fifteen minute break from 10:00 to 10:15 felt so great. I'm not sure I've ever enjoyed life as much as during some of those 15 minutes [maybe I'm exaggerating here].

The point is, sometimes you enjoy yourself more when there's something else you will need to do, or should be doing. That is, you might enjoy checking posts more because you know you should be reading your book.

 

[REWahoo]

I really want to do all the stuff I planned to do. But in the actual moment, the allure of seeing what new stuff were posted on this board is stronger than the allure of a medieval history book.

The E-R.org forum is the equivalent of crack cocaine to many retiree wannabes...and to some of us who have already crossed over.

Resistance is futile. Get over it.

 

[Gone4Good]

For me, retirement is not just about having free time, its about having time to do the things I choose to do, not what others choose for me to do. This does not result in any greater amount of idleness than when I was employed unless I choose for it to.

This, to me, is the whole point.

 

[Hanno]

The E-R.org forum is the equivalent of crack cocaine to many retiree wannabes...and to some of us who have already crossed over.

Resistance is futile. Get over it.

I have nothing against the forum, but checking for and reading new posts three times a day is as effective as doing so thirty times a day. The same goes for all other forums. In my case it's really a pure laziness. I even know that the days in which I muster some self-control and get stuff done make me very satisfied and happy, and still that happiness is not as attractive as a mindless waste of time.

I'm working on it though.

I think I'll install a net-nanny program. Useful not only for kids.

 

[Martha]

Maybe you just need something more exciting to read than medieval history books?

 

[Gone4Good]

In my case it's really a pure laziness. I even know that the days in which I muster some self-control and get stuff done make me very satisfied and happy, and still that happiness is not as attractive as a mindless waste of time.

It seems to me there is a real, and perhaps under appreciated, danger that one's free time may degrade into an unhealthy lethargy in retirement. I remember some reports that argued inactive retired folks suffer from a high rate of depression (probably just propaganda from "The Man" designed to keep the prols at the grindstone, though).

Nevertheless, when given a choice between wasting my own time and having someone else do it for me, I'll choose the former every single time.

 

[Donzo]

I went to a father/son boyscout camp out last night w/ approx. 15 other fathers w/ their son/s. I have never had to explain why I retired early and why it is good decision more....around a campfire -- I would try and change the subject and it always came back to my enviable unusual position. I must have gotten through to them because alot of discussion focused on savings and investments later on. The guys that did have 401Ks and IRAs had no clue what their fees, specific investments etc were....I know at least a few will check that out shortly. This started as a very uncomfortable discussion for me w/ the group and ended up being positive - A couple of younger guys really tried to "pick my brain" and were surprised w/ just how easy it is to get to FI w/ long term appropiate allocated savings.


I hope they follow through -

 

[Eagle43]

Well, It's not endless and it darn sure isn't free. I purchased this free time with 43 years of banalities effort.

And I agree completely with Audrey1 about wondering how I had the time to work. I used to hear that from retirees and thought they were blowing smoke. It seems they weren't. Today, I hate appointments, meetings, and pretty much mandatory anything.

 

[Nords]

I'm probably 2-3 years from FIRE, but was having a thought.
One of my big motivations for FIRE is to have all that extra time to do whatever I want--the things I don't have time for right now.
Yet based upon my Master's degree experience, I have this sort of fear that once I've retired for a while, I'll wonder how I ever fit in work. And maybe I'll still want more free time.... except that there won't be any major thing I do left to give up to get more time!
In your experiences, is that how it goes?
If so, I wonder if this says something about how enjoyment of life is finding pleasure in whatever time you have available, whether much or little...

You can stop worrying, SD-- that's exactly what's going to happen. I can remember that I had plenty more free time at work, but I was expected to have an attentive expression on my face as I enjoyed that free time during department-head meetings, command training, mandatory workouts, inspections, tours...

Of course if you have kids then you'll never have to worry about how you'll be spending your free time. You just won't have any.

What I'm most afraid of in ample free time situations, is the danger of living a lifestyle of laziness.

I'm gonna have to think about that and get back to you, as soon as I get some free time and enough energy to devote to it. I'm on it, I'm all over it...

I have nothing against the forum, but checking for and reading new posts three times a day is as effective as doing so thirty times a day. The same goes for all other forums. In my case it's really a pure laziness. I even know that the days in which I muster some self-control and get stuff done make me very satisfied and happy, and still that happiness is not as attractive as a mindless waste of time.

Part of it is having a regular exercise program that's fun-- surfing, walking, frequent sex (perhaps even with your spouse), whatever is anticipated & easy to do while boosting your energy level.

A small part of it is taking naps. I can stay up 16 hours straight but I'm much more productive if I break that up with a 30-minute nap. Otherwise the back half is slogging and the final two hours is a waste of everyone's time.

Another part of it is running around for a while enjoying being wild & free. Paul Terhorst wrote that you should attempt to change nothing for two years while you got used to being ER'd and decided how you wanted to spend your time. I used to post to over a dozen different discussion boards but for one reason or another (lack of moderation, overwhelming spam/trolls, stale topics) I've cut it back to just a few.

Warren Buffett says that he's at a point in his life where he can choose what he wants to do and where he doesn't have to spend time with people he doesn't care for. But in order to enjoy a life like that, we all have to be responsible for our own entertainment!

I keep making a list and crossing things off when they're done. Many times the monthlies become quarterlies, the quarterlies become annuals, and the annuals become "until it breaks". So maybe like the Navy's "Preventive Maintenance System", we just filled our days with things that seemed to need doing but were actually unecessary?

But tomorrow I'm really going to weedwhack that grass and fix the screens. Yep. I'm all over it...

 

[Goonie]

Endless free time is great! I get to decide what I want to do (or not do), when I want to do it (or not do it), and how fast or slow I want to go!

I, too, wonder sometimes how I had time for life AND w*rk! I keep quite busy, but it's almost all stuff that I want to do and that I like to do! There are a lot of times I'll be doing something, step back for a second, and think "Hey! I need a cup of coffee!" So I'll jump in the car (leaving my 'project' in limbo) and head off for the coffee shop. When I get back, I get back! Then (most times) I'll pick up where I left off.

Like cutting grass. When I was still employed, I had to cut it on one of the 2 days I had off each week. If I had other plans for Saturday, I had to cut it Sunday. If I had other plans for Sunday, I had to cut it on Saturday. If it rained....man was I screwed! So when I went out to cut it, I had to get going and get it done as quick as possible so I could still have some free time to enjoy.

Now, I can cut it anytime I darn well please.....and it's seldom on a Saturday OR a Sunday! I like to spend weekends visiting with friends (who still have to w*rk during the week), and going to farmer's markets and flea markets, and other stuff that only happens on those weekends.

I really like cutting grass too. It's relaxing, I'm out in the sunshine, and I get my exercise. When I was w*rking, cutting grass was a chore that had to get done. Now I'll cut for a while, take a break, cut for a while, take a break....eventually I get it done. Sometimes I start today and finish tomorrow!

I have as much...or as little...free time as I want!

It's like the accelerator pedal in your car, or the thermostat in your house.....YOU are in control!!! Adjust things to YOUR liking!

 

[happy2bretired]

What I'm most afraid of in ample free time situations, is the danger of living a lifestyle of laziness.

Before I get a few days off, I'm always making a list of the books I intend to read, the subjects I want to pursue, the quiet thinking time I want to have, etc. The end result is that I read half a book, two wikipedia articles and get 20 minutes of free time. The rest of the time is wasted on checking the same forums on the internet over and over again.

I really want to do all the stuff I planned to do. But in the actual moment, the allure of seeing what new stuff were posted on this board is stronger than the allure of a medieval history book.

Hanno, I have the same problem. I made lists of things I wanted to do also...but I must have lost my list after retirement. I call what I do every day as "tinkering around the house". I know I am getting much more lazy, but it's being lazy MY WAY.

And I agree completely with Audrey1 about wondering how I had the time to work. I used to hear that from retirees and thought they were blowing smoke. It seems they weren't. Today, I hate appointments, meetings, and pretty much mandatory anything.

Me too! I look back when my daughter was younger and my having a full time job...I have no idea how I did all of that. Now, when I HAVE to do something, appointments, etc...it's like...do I HAVE TO?? When I was working I felt like I needed an assistant AT HOME to help with the household things. Now, in retirement, I feel like I need a MOMMY, to tell me that I HAVE to do certain things that I don't want to. MAKE YOUR BED, CLEAN UP YOUR ROOM, etc.

 

[Achiever51]

I recently realized that when I was working, I spent most of my days on autopilot -- moving through many tasks without even noticing the time/energy/results and looking ahead to the next item on the "list". Looking back, I see now that I rarely took any time to reflect on what I did -- I was too busy.

Now, I find myself more "in the moment." Where I used to drive 80 mph on the expressway, juggling the Blackberry and trying to eat the fast food lunch that I grabbed at the drive-thru, I now purposely take the surface roads and stop to enjoy a sit down lunch (maybe at 2 in the afternoon). I enjoy lingering over a cup of coffee, listening to the birds or the breeze through the trees. I still read the Wall Street Journal and other business publications -- but now for my own investment education rather than for the "biz-speak".

And, I am happily re-discovering hobbies that I shelved for years while I climbed the corporate ladder. Overall, I think I've become a more interesting person by widening my horizons...I know that I am happier than I've been in years.

 

[Nords]

I still read the Wall Street Journal and other business publications -- but now for my own investment education rather than for the "biz-speak".

After five years of ER (where I can read as much as I want) I think I'm getting dumber. Or maybe I'm less tolerant of the media.

We've already canceled our newspaper subscription and I don't miss it a bit. (I can scan the publisher's website much faster than I can flip newsprint.) It actually saved me a lot of work-- the lack of the paper meant that I wasn't seeing a printed TV schedule that seemed to be always changing, so instead of programming VCR recordings every few days I've set up weekly schedules that change less frequently. Not only do I not have to read the paper, I don't have to evaluate its bad info.

I've subscribed to Business Week for over 25 years, but lately I've stopped reading it too. I read most of the issue online before it works its way to my mailbox (a 2-5 day lag) and lately Laura D'Andrea Tyson & Gary Becker seem to have lost column space to Maria B & the Welches. This is an improvement? I'll flip through the back issues on the airplane next week but by the time I get back home I suspect I'll be ready to cancel that subscription too. It's not the money-- it's being pelted with way too much info and way too little content.

Scientific American is still OK, but it used to fuel my investment analysis and now it's mostly golly-gee-whiz research. My Family Handyman learning curve has flattened way out. U.S. Naval Institute Proceedings... well, thank goodness I no longer have to give a sh!t be situationally aware of who's saying what about network-centric warfare.

I used to read a lot of biography, history, financial research, and lifestyle/longevity books. Now I skip over them in favor of the latest Robert B. Parker, Jim Butcher, Joe Buff, & hard SF authors.

But maybe this is a passing phase. Maybe by the time I've been ER'd as long as Jarhead I'll be poring over medieval texts and reading Greek poetry...

 

[W2R]

Endless free time is great! I get to decide what I want to do (or not do), when I want to do it (or not do it), and how fast or slow I want to go!

I, too, wonder sometimes how I had time for life AND w*rk! I keep quite busy, but it's almost all stuff that I want to do and that I like to do! There are a lot of times I'll be doing something, step back for a second, and think "Hey! I need a cup of coffee!" So I'll jump in the car (leaving my 'project' in limbo) and head off for the coffee shop. When I get back, I get back! Then (most times) I'll pick up where I left off.

Like cutting grass. When I was still employed, I had to cut it on one of the 2 days I had off each week. If I had other plans for Saturday, I had to cut it Sunday. If I had other plans for Sunday, I had to cut it on Saturday. If it rained....man was I screwed! So when I went out to cut it, I had to get going and get it done as quick as possible so I could still have some free time to enjoy.

Now, I can cut it anytime I darn well please.....and it's seldom on a Saturday OR a Sunday! I like to spend weekends visiting with friends (who still have to w*rk during the week), and going to farmer's markets and flea markets, and other stuff that only happens on those weekends.

I really like cutting grass too. It's relaxing, I'm out in the sunshine, and I get my exercise. When I was w*rking, cutting grass was a chore that had to get done. Now I'll cut for a while, take a break, cut for a while, take a break....eventually I get it done. Sometimes I start today and finish tomorrow!

I have as much...or as little...free time as I want!

It's like the accelerator pedal in your car, or the thermostat in your house.....YOU are in control!!! Adjust things to YOUR liking!

Goonie, your post really helped a couple of us who aren't quite there yet. What you are describing is all we could ever hope for. Thank you!

 

[Goonie]

Goonie, your post really helped a couple of us who aren't quite there yet. What you are describing is all we could ever hope for. Thank you!

Glad I could be of some assistance.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

did you ever fall asleep and dream for what seemed like a really long time only to awaken and realize you'd been napping for just a moment?

as i worked out of my house on pretty much my own hours, with my boss out of state, i have pretty much as much free time now as i did when i was working.

i've always been struck by those who think they never have enough time. life is so short, they say. and then there are those who are always bored and i think that for them life must just drag on and on and on.

aside from school projects and work deadlines, i never felt rushed. though i see it often in others, i neither rushed time nor felt like i was out of it. though i often feel like i'm on the wrong planet, i never felt like i missed the boat. at worst i feel like i might have made a wrong turn or two, but rather than panic just because i'm lost, i simply enjoy the view.

lazy to the core, when you are not out for accomplishments, when you're not going anywhere, it really doesn't matter much how much time you have. when you are happy where you are, it doesn't matter whether the world goes by quickly or slowly because regardless of its speed you have all the time in the world.

 

[audreyh1]

After five years of ER (where I can read as much as I want) I think I'm getting dumber. Or maybe I'm less tolerant of the media.

Nords, I expect it has more to do with you being involved in your own life. What is going on in the rest of the world doesn't matter as much to you any more.

I remember going on vacations to remote areas with groups of people where some of them really struggled with the loss of "immediate information" from traditional media. They felt adrift at not knowing for days what was going on in the rest of the world. I always really enjoyed the respite and one of the things I hated about returning to civilization was the breathless, frantic information glut.

IMO, the job of the media is to make all this news sound incredibly relevant and immediate and oh so important for you to "stay tuned....". When really, how much of it is relevant at all? Not that much.

Audrey