Patriot act and on-line savings- where are my rights???

[Ken11]

Here's the deal.
Retired in 2010.
Sold our house up north in December.
We are now staying with family in Florida until we select a town to settle in.
I have hundreds of thousands in my bank account since my house sale.
Credit rating is around 800.
14 years at last address. 33 years employment at one fortune 500 company.

Here is the policy statement at PREVENTS me from opening and on-line account.

Important information about procedures for opening a new account. To help the government fight the funding of terrorism and money laundering activities, federal law requires that all financial institutions obtain, verify and record information that identifies each person who opens an account. When you open an account, we will ask for your name, street address (a post office box may not be used), date of birth, and other information that will allow us to identify you. A Tax Identification Number is also required to open the account. We may also require additional proof of identity, such as a driver’s license.
--------------------

While Im using my Moms address this does not satisfy the above policy.
I have no utility bills in my name assigned to the address. It is not a permanent address.

OMG- IM UNABLE TO OPEN an account without telling some fibs.

How can this possibly be? Our system is going insane when rules aimed at thwarting money launderers, terorrists and tax cheats prevents someone in my situation from participating in high yield on-line sanings accounts. All I want to do is park my home equity funds until I buy a house. This has me steaming.

Any ideas?

 

[REWahoo]

Any ideas?

Many folks who RV full time and live on the road must have the same issue. Check one of their clubs such as Escapees.com to see how they do it.

 

[audreyh1]

You are staying at your Mom's. That is your street address. Why can't you use that? It's "permanent" until you find your new place. Perfectly valid for getting a driver's license, etc.

Audrey

 

[travelover]

.............OMG- IM UNABLE TO OPEN an account without telling some fibs.............Any ideas?

Yes. Lie. They will never prosecute you.

 

[Ken11]

I explained my situation to the banks on the phone and they all turned me down.
Without utility bills in my name (or similar items) they dont consider my moms address to be a permanent one for me.
So some lying is necessary. - However, absent the type of documentation they re seeking this may not be sufficient to satisfy the banks.

 

[meierlde]

What address do you use for your drivers license? You should keep that address up to date. (Or ID card if you have no drivers license) Otherwise its just the screwed up banks. Like one credit union that wanted names of folks they could call if they could not contact me.

 

[meierlde]

Thinking a bit further, with a FL drivers license, then you would also have established residency for tax purposes, and since Florida has no state income tax save that way.

 

[audreyh1]

Get a Florida driver's license and use that.

 

[samclem]

Sorry about your troubles. I'm interested in this part:

Here's the deal.
Our system is going insane when rules aimed at thwarting money launderers, terorrists and tax cheats prevents someone in my situation from participating in high yield on-line sanings accounts.

High yield? Everything is relative, but I haven't seen a high-yield savings account in a long time. I guess 1.4% is better than 0.4%, and if we're parking a lot of money that adds up, but . . .

 

[Bestwifeever]

I'll gladly park it in my account for you

 

[nun]

Here is the policy statement at PREVENTS me from opening and on-line account.

US citizens living abroad also face this issue. Most US financial institutions will not open accounts for people living outside of the US. Additionally there's a new piece of legislation called FATCA that requires foreign banks to share account details of it's US customers with the IRS. If they don't do this the IRS withholds 30% tax from the banks US assets. There are big costs associated with FATCA compliance for the banks so some are just refusing to open accounts for US citizens.........so the result is the possibility the US citizens abroad won't be able to open accounts anywhere

 

[Nova]

I'm guessing that you have a savings account at the financial institution where the money is currently sitting in a checking account. Can't you transfer the money into some sort of interest earning vehicle they have? They can continue to send statements/documents to you at your "old address" and USPS will forward your mail...for up to 6 months...change of address to your Mom's address.

As an aside, are you planning to pay cash for that new house? Unless you have some kind of income stream that would support house payments, most banks have a hard time understanding your creditworthiness if you only have assets and a superior credit rating.

 

[Ken11]

I'm guessing that you have a savings account at the financial institution where the money is currently sitting in a checking account. Can't you transfer the money into some sort of interest earning vehicle they have? They can continue to send statements/documents to you at your "old address" and USPS will forward your mail...for up to 6 months...change of address to your Mom's address.

As an aside, are you planning to pay cash for that new house? Unless you have some kind of income stream that would support house payments, most banks have a hard time understanding your creditworthiness if you only have assets and a superior credit rating.

Only on-line savings yield anyhing north of 1%.
I lose more thatn .5% if I go with a standard B of A savings accnt.

We have the USPS forwarding our mail. However, this does not satisfy the banks requirement for a permanent address that they confirm via utility bills and other sources.

Yes cash for the next house is my plan. Im done with banks if I can help it.

 

[Texas Proud]

There is no 'right' being violated... you do not have a right to checking account...

 

[Animorph]

You're different, you're screwed.

 

[Lisa99]

Have your mom's gas bill put in your name until you can get the account opened.

 

[BLS53]

Used to be banks only messed with the credit challenged. Now they mess with everybody. Then there's all these 20 something "gatekeeper" CSR's, who are impossible to deal with. I had an issue with my debit card not working, and the CSR insisted I didn't know how to use an ATM. Felt like telling her I'd been using ATM's before she was born. Found out later it was a network outage. Of course, they never informed their CSR's of this.

 

[Alan]

Ken11,

What address are you planning on using for your tax return? When our 25 year old son moved back in with us for a few months (from a different State) he got a new drivers license with our address and opened a bank account at a local bank.

He only stayed a few monthswhile he found a job and then saved up enough to fund an apartment and move out. I don't see a legal problem with you changing your address to that of your mother since that is where you are living.

 

[LARS]

While you're worrying about this you might as well worry about the sky falling... because it's basically as relevant.

Use your mother's address and be done with it. It is where you are domiciled and is your legal residence: unless you think by not owning or renting property you immediately become a man without a country.

What you should be concerned about, as others have pointed out, is that your savings are being eroded away by the actions of the FED. That is something to be pissed about...

 

[audreyh1]

I don't see a legal problem with you changing your address to that of your mother since that is where you are living.

This is a perfectly legit thing to do, and Ken hasn't answered why he isn't doing this.

Audrey

 

[Ken11]

A few intersting comments- thanks.

Firstly, whomever mentioned that having a savings account is not a "right" is absolutely correct. I agree. I may have mis-named the thread.

However, why should such an arbitrary test, which in no way suggests I have or will do anything wrong, prevent me from transacting business? It seems that in their attempt to interpret the patriot act the banks may have established some policies that have a negative imact on folks that simply dont deserve to be impacted. This seems inconsistent with the intent/spirit of the law.
Jeez -They have my SS# and all my rock solid history.

In our world of creeping legislation it seems that unintended conssequences are becoming more significant. Oftentimes it seems unintended consequences = legislative stupidity/ a failure to simply thinik things through. HIPA is another fine example of this.

Of course I could make my moms adress my permanent address by estabishing some accounts at this address. Interestingly, the bank doesn't tell me exactly what is required to satisfy them in this way. I was surprised to hear that they had looked for utility account in my name.

However, interest on savings is just one consideration. Car insurance, health insurance impacts are also in play. We intend to be gypsies for a while- renting for a while in FLA and then in SC and then. So, I was hoping to avoid multiple address changes over a relatively short period. I also wanted to avoid maintaining multiple addresses for different purposes. For the next several monthas the USPS forward to my mom was intended to keep us organized. Then we could change our address once only- to a final permanent address. Now i will have to re-optimize my approach.

This just seems so silly.

 

[samclem]

This just seems so silly.

You are right, the requirement is silly. I think the simplest thing is to keep your mail going to your mom's address, and establish that address as your own. I, too, am surprised that they checked for utility bills in your name (frankly, I think you need to work on your lying skills, I'm fairly certain they don't routinely check this). Anyway, you aren't lying--do you have a MORE permanent address at the moment? No.
Your life will get simpler once you get everything at that address. Don't mess around too long or you might end up having to file an extra state tax return.
You're going to need a FL driver's license anyway, so find out what the DMV requires as proof of residency, and explain that you've moved in with your mom. For a long time. Maybe forever. After you get the DL, transfer your vehicles to that address. Your insurance, too. I'd bet that will be enough to show any bank that you live in FL.

 

[audreyh1]

However, interest on savings is just one consideration. Car insurance, health insurance impacts are also in play. We intend to be gypsies for a while- renting for a while in FLA and then in SC and then. So, I was hoping to avoid multiple address changes over a relatively short period. I also wanted to avoid maintaining multiple addresses for different purposes. For the next several monthas the USPS forward to my mom was intended to keep us organized. Then we could change our address once only- to a final permanent address. Now i will have to re-optimize my approach.

This just seems so silly.

You'll have to establish residency somewhere. If you keep changing states - that gets complicated. If you move around within a state - not that big of a deal. The bank is just forcing this issue sooner. But you have to have a driver's license, vehicles registered and insurance in your state of residence.

If you plan to live in multiple states during the year, then you need to choose one as your domicile state and establish all the above in that state. It usually doesn't matter whether you spend a lot of time out of the state, as long as you intend to return.

Audrey

 

[Ken11]

OK
I've gotten an account.
I used the address of the home I just sold.
Apparently my name is still linked with this address in a way that satisfies the bank.

I only had to formally/legally attest to the fact that I gave the correct SS#, and that I was a US citizen. This I did.

I solved my issue.
However, why should US citizens living abroad or homeless or wandering people that ARE OTHERWISE BENIGN be denied such an account?

I generally consider Legislative creep and related unintended consequences to be a growing issue. It seems to only go in one direction- it all gets more cumbersome and intrusive.

 

[kombat]

I generally consider Legislative creep and related unintended consequences to be a growing issue. It seems to only go in one direction- it all gets more cumbersome and intrusive.

That's because you've got all these guys (politicians) whose whole job is to pass more laws. Every time they get together (in session), they make a bunch more things illegal. They rarely ever repeal any existing laws. The vast majority of their work is passing new ones. The more laws they pass, the more they're able to brag to their constituents about how "effective" they are.

It's inevitable that as more time passes, society is only going to get more and more bogged down in bureaucratic red tape and regulatory nonsense.

I don't have a solution, I was just pointing out that your observation is quite accurate, in my opinion.