Is NYC really too expensive?

You spend $150 a month for food for five? That is impressive as it is only a $1 a day per person for 3 meals. What kind of meals do you make in a day?


My guess is he was talking per person... so $750/mth total...


I have a family of 4 and we are closer to $1,000/mth total.... but I know we could be cheaper if DW would shop smarter and not buy 'fresh' everything...
 
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To add more clarity to the housing situation, it's possible my apartment is rent stabilized (I don't know, I just pay my half to the guy who was already living there, he's been in this apt for 7 years). The interior of my apartment is not really very nice, but this is something that's not important to me. What mattered:

1. A true 2 bedroom with a room big enough to fit a queen bed.
2. The neighborhood is just wicked cool and close to everything.
3. No lease or broker's fee.

While it is a good deal, it's not as though this is earth-shattering. During my search I found a huge, nice two bedroom for $925 each in Greenpoint (right next to Williamsburg), a couple bedrooms for $700 in Bushwick, and bedrooms for $675 and $725 in Astoria. I'd have done the $675 except it had a lease/fee double whammy, but I like Astoria as well.

The key is to just see a lot of places. I had 5 days to find a home when I got to NYC, and I saw at least 4 places a day. Go on Craigslist and set your max budget and you should be able to find something if you're flexible.

Splitting a 700 sf 2 BR apartment for $800 each sounds crazy expensive compared to what I'm accustomed to (in North Carolina).

Well yeah. This is obvious. Again, space is not important as long as I have a minimal amount. I have a friend that splits a 3 BR townhouse for $330 each in Raleigh, so I don't doubt I could save a bunch on rent. But wouldn't a car give most of the savings back? There's no way I could go carless there, and that area is a pretty big drop in QOL right now.

$300 on food and dining out seems steep, but maybe that's a lot of bar tabs?

I spend ~$100 per month on alcohol. That's $25 per week or just 3-4 drinks. It's common for people my age to spend $100 per week, but fortunately I don't get much utility out of alcohol.

I also spend ~$30-40 month on coffee, because I do many of my meetups/networking/dates at coffee shops. It's about the cheapest way to hang out with someone indoors. :)

So food is pretty close to $150.
 
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You can check to see if your apartment is rent stabilized here:

NYC Rent Guidelines Board

and here is a list of all BK apartments that are:

http://nycrgb.org/downloads/resources/sta_bldngs/2013BrooklynBldgs.pdf

It is probably a good idea to know if it is rent stabilized for sure. NYC rental market is volatile and if you could avoid moving or at least plan around potential moving, you'll save a nice chunk of change.

Thanks, great resource. So according to this, it's not rent stabilized. Either way, it's a good deal for sure.
 
Your expenses are around 200% of federal poverty level and you are living in a place you enjoy. I don't think there is much dollar savings in moving, especially if you had to have a car or made less in salary.

It costs $3k - $15K per person annually to live in the Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage:
Dancing Rabbit Ecovillage | The Search for Convenient Resilience

And there you'd have to build your own straw bale house and get to know know what humanure means, if you don't already. :) I think $23K in expenses to live in NY and have a $70K income at your age is going to be hard to beat, especially if you factor in wanting to keep living in a lattes and laptop type demographic area for someone your age.
 
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You spend $150 a month for food for five? That is impressive as it is only a $1 a day per person for 3 meals. What kind of meals do you make in a day?

$150/person. It's probably closer to $120 per person if I take out toiletries, personal hygiene items, and household supplies (like TP, paper towels, cleaning supplies).

I wish I could get it all down to $150 total but I think that would mean a lot of soups, pasta, bread, beans, etc.
 
Well yeah. This is obvious. Again, space is not important as long as I have a minimal amount. I have a friend that splits a 3 BR townhouse for $330 each in Raleigh, so I don't doubt I could save a bunch on rent. But wouldn't a car give most of the savings back? There's no way I could go carless there, and that area is a pretty big drop in QOL right now.

Yeah, I'd suggest a car here. Huge convenience, although some can make it with a bike and the occasional Uber or a rental for out of town trips. The downtown area lacks a real grocery store within walking distance, so unless you want to rely on trekking to the nearest grocery store a mile or two away to replenish your fridge, it would be expensive and/or difficult to get groceries.

Funny you mention drop in QOL. My friends that end up in NYC say how much further the dollar goes here in Raleigh. Alcohol is an example. I was shocked at paying $4-5 for a beer when we met up at Christmas last year here in Raleigh. He was like "$4-5 is cheap in NYC, so just pay up and enjoy it". And the "wow, you can drive almost anywhere and not normally get stuck in traffic". And "there's no honking". Your houses are so cheap/spacious. I've heard happier stories from those that end up in the burbs in NJ or LI, but then there's that commute if you work in the city.

As for car expenses eating up housing savings, I don't think so. Like I said before, you could buy an inexpensive 2 BR townhouse or condo and get a roommate to pay virtually your whole mortgage, thereby letting you live for almost free. Even better would be to buy a 3 BR and rent out the other 2 rooms. You might turn a small profit each month. Friends have done this to their great financial benefit. Parking is free most places in town, gas is fairly cheap, insurance on an older car with a good driving record is cheap. We have averaged $64/month for maintenance, insurance, taxes, license, and registration. Gas is dependent on your commute. Depreciation, probably figure $100/month.

With a car, you can also take cheap vacations. A day trip to the beach is $20 for gas, for example (pack a picnic lunch and a towel to lay on). Split it with 3 friends and that's $5. The marginal cost to use a car once you own it is very small. Drive to a state park and hike all day for $10-15 in gas and park admission.


I spend ~$100 per month on alcohol. That's $25 per week or just 3-4 drinks. It's common for people my age to spend $100 per week, but fortunately I don't get much utility out of alcohol.

I also spend ~$30-40 month on coffee, because I do many of my meetups/networking/dates at coffee shops. It's about the cheapest way to hang out with someone indoors. :)

So food is pretty close to $150.

Okay, sounds like your food budget wouldn't benefit much by moving to a lower COL area.

I use the coffee shops for meet up places too. $2 to rent a spot to sit and chat for a couple of hours is a great deal. I'm fortunate to have one at the end of my block that I can walk to. Makes a great meeting spot for craigslist selling too.
 
Lived there 7 years, didn't find it terribly expensive. I had a <800 sq ft place and no car. You have to adapt to the city sized life and it can be comparable. Had a ton of fun, but it wore on me.


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I lived in Greenwich Village in an NYU dorm for 4 years back in the 1980s before moving to a nearby apartment for 9 months after I graduated. I shared it with an older man (a NYC teacher about 10 years older than me), each of us having our own bedrooms and phone lines. It was rent-stabilized but he charged me more than half the rent (i.e. market value) but it was still a good deal.


But he moved out after 8 months to move in with his fiancé (he proposed to her after I had moved in) which left me having to pay the whole rent had I chosen to stay. I already planned to move out because I felt cramped without being able to own a car. I moved back to Long Island and eventually got my own place after buying a car. This was a more expensive lifestyle (i.e. car, LIRR commute) but my salary was rising quickly (nearly 30%) in just 18 months so I could afford it. And my quality of life improved greatly.
 
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