Surgery? Risk? Alternatives...

I'm skeptical about most things but particularly about surgery. My frozen shoulder slowly resolves itself over years of stretching. However, I might have to do two elective surgeries in the future. I rather do them before I'm old as in my 70s or 80s. I think I can take to surgery better at a younger age, like early 60s.
 
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anytime you go under the knife its risky

imoldernu said:
Since this is so much a personal matter, opening the subject for open discussion and your thoughts on this health defining issue.

This AM, went to the Friday AM coffee with my older friends in our CCRC, and the discussion turned to the general feelings about how we handle situations where "choice" has forced us to make decisions about our healthcare. More directed to cases where the choice came down to the alternative of surgery, or other means such as diet, physical therapy or medication.

Of course there are situations where there is no choice, but often there's a fine line, where risk/reward comes in to play. In our own case, we very much respect our doctor's advice, but this has always been after an in depth analysis wherein he brings the surgery option down to a percentage of risk... as well as the expected downsides of the alternative options.

There is no "right" answer here, and no one can definitively say today, what decision may be made tomorrow, but I was somewhat put off, in todays discussion, to find that some of my friends totally abide by their doctors' recommendations.

Because some choices come upon us unexpectedly... as in cases where a medical test gives unwanted results, medical decisions are often made in haste. Because we have seen this, our resolve is to (at least) sleep on any final decision.

Would you share your thoughts on this? Have you been faced with this type of decision, and what influenced your choice?
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when i was younger (1975 ish) we had a neighbor that won a lot of money on the game show concentration, they bought a country house , she went for a nose job, she never woke up. i was a teenager i always thought she was a pretty lady. the husband grieved for about 2 years then remarried, moral of the story dont got for the operation unless u have no choice and have alternatives
 
Meadbh said:
It is now recognized that low risk prostate cancer is extremely common and that the PSA test has been responsible for a lot of unnecessary worry and treatment.
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Over the past ~30 years, every male on my DF side of the family has had a PSA over 10 by the time they were in their mid 60's and none has developed (detectable) prostate cancer yet. However, some of the more invasive test that they have told me about I wouldn't wish on anyone. (and two had complications from the multiple test)
 
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Blue Collar Guy said:
when i was younger (1975 ish) we had a neighbor that won a lot of money on the game show concentration, they bought a country house , she went for a nose job, she never woke up. i was a teenager i always thought she was a pretty lady. the husband grieved for about 2 years then remarried, moral of the story dont got for the operation unless u have no choice and have alternatives
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My cousin had a daughter that had some leg surgery and died in her late 20s with blood clots in the lungs. I have another cousin (60s) that had knee replacement that went bad. So surgery can go bad, as indeed can anthing that involves anesthesia also.
 
My sister just told me her friend, not quite 60, died in surgery for breast cancer. This is tough situation, young enough to go for the surgery, but apparently she was not able to survive.
 
Age, health, condition and available alternatives all come into play. I've opted for hugely invasive surgery when the alternative treatments were risky. I've opted for no surgery when the doc was gung ho to do it, but I didn't see much upside if I did, nor much downside if I didn't. I've chosen simple surgery when the doc recommended it instead of a laparoscopic choice because either was highly likely to be successful but I was okay with a bigger scar for less chance of complications. Seems backwards from what I would have guessed but doctor was highly experienced, so I believed him completely. And I've waffled about trying diet and exercise (repeatedly) instead of surgical procedures that might help, but carried more risk than the exercise. It all depends on the specifics and the alternatives available.
 
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Fedup said:
I'm skeptical about most things but particularly about surgery. My frozen shoulder slowly resolves itself over years of stretching. However, I might have to do two elective surgeries in the future. I rather do them before I'm old as in my 70s or 80s. I think I can take to surgery better at a younger age, like early 60s.
Click to expand...

About 15 years ago (at age ~52), all of a sudden I couldn't move my left shoulder without pain, even wasn't able to reach my wallet in my back pocket. I went to first my Primary who referred me to the shoulder doc, who had me do PT first, then returned to him no better and he asked: "How do you feel about surgery ?" I had a partially torn rotator cuff. So I went home and googled "rotator cuff" and the first Ad was a Rubber Band kit for $19.95 which I bought, did my own PT and use lots and lots of ice. I've been symptom free since !

I have a high school friend who I reconnected with who is a Doc who only does shoulder surgeries, and he told me that everyone at an older age has some degree of rotator cuff tears, some are symptomatic and some are not. Only the full rotator cuff tear (full as opposed to partial) requires surgery for sure.

Just my experience being passed on

Rich
 
And, of course, there's now supposed to be a link between general anesthesia, and dementia in older patients.

This can hardly be something new, yet it's only recently that I've been hearing/reading about it. As I've said in another thread, dementia is the "cancer" of this era (the Bad and Uncurable Thing that Everybody Fears). So everything causes dementia now.
 
meierlde said:
My cousin had a daughter that had some leg surgery and died in her late 20s with blood clots in the lungs. I have another cousin (60s) that had knee replacement that went bad. So surgery can go bad, as indeed can anthing that involves anesthesia also.
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My buddies wife died from a tubal ligation. Laid in the hospital and bleed to death. Totally human error. Stuff happens.
 
DFW_M5 said:
I've had some harmless polyps removed in the past, so not sure whether or not that will let me off the hook. Anyhow, there will most likely be one or maybe two more in my future.
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If you've had polyps, then you should continue to get a colonoscopies after age 75.
 
Ian S said:
If you've had polyps, then you should continue to get a colonoscopies after age 75.
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My FIL and MIL never had colonoscopy, they died of something else at 87 and 91. Same with my father at 86. I think in the U.K. You can request a colonoscopy but it's not routinely offered like in USA.
 
Fedup said:
My FIL and MIL never had colonoscopy, they died of something else at 87 and 91. Same with my father at 86. I think in the U.K. You can request a colonoscopy but it's not routinely offered like in USA.
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That might explain why my English cousin died of colon cancer in his 50's
 
Mr._Graybeard said:
From my experience I'm skeptical about the justification for some prostate surgeries. Yeah, a lot of men who get it need it, but in my case the urologist was (IMO) overly eager to get me under the knife after a biopsy turned up 5% cancer in one of nine cores taken during a prostate biopsy. I got a second opinion from another urologist and a third from an oncologist who specialized in prostate cancer. They both told me that surgery was premature in my case, and I should just watch the cancer's progress.

I can't help but think about that big-ticket Da Vinci surgery robot at Urologist No. 1's hospital and the financial pressures to keep that thing humming!
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a tale about two separate cases.
Case A 61 year old diagnosed with a slow prostrate cancer. He lost his insurance and never did any follow ups. At age 66 on medicare he finds out his prostrate is eat up and had to have it removed. He lost his sex life.

Case B a 55 year old Pharmacist diagnosed with prostrate cancer elects to treat it with alternate medicine. He died at 57.

Becareful with alternate medicine and procrastination. Sometimes surgery is the better choice but how does one know.
 
Alternative medicine works very slowly. If you need surgery do right away. I'm always big advocate for alternative medicine but it depends on the case.
 
My DH was diagnosed with prostate cancer at age 49. The doc wanted to operate but after seeking out 2 other opinions we did a test and watch for the next 3 years. Then instead of the surgery when his numbers went high he did the radiation seeds which also have side effects but less then the surgery. He has been fine even though now he is 58.
 
Richard4444 said:
About 15 years ago (at age ~52), all of a sudden I couldn't move my left shoulder without pain, even wasn't able to reach my wallet in my back pocket. I went to first my Primary who referred me to the shoulder doc, who had me do PT first, then returned to him no better and he asked: "How do you feel about surgery ?" I had a partially torn rotator cuff. So I went home and googled "rotator cuff" and the first Ad was a Rubber Band kit for $19.95 which I bought, did my own PT and use lots and lots of ice. I've been symptom free since !

Rich
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Great story. Good work!

Ha
 
Richard4444 said:
About 15 years ago (at age ~52), all of a sudden I couldn't move my left shoulder without pain, even wasn't able to reach my wallet in my back pocket. I went to first my Primary who referred me to the shoulder doc, who had me do PT first, then returned to him no better and he asked: "How do you feel about surgery ?" I had a partially torn rotator cuff. So I went home and googled "rotator cuff" and the first Ad was a Rubber Band kit for $19.95 which I bought, did my own PT and use lots and lots of ice. I've been symptom free since !

I have a high school friend who I reconnected with who is a Doc who only does shoulder surgeries, and he told me that everyone at an older age has some degree of rotator cuff tears, some are symptomatic and some are not. Only the full rotator cuff tear (full as opposed to partial) requires surgery for sure.

Just my experience being passed on

Rich
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Good job on your shoulders. I injured my shoulders doing reversed standing Pose in yoga. It's been years as in 10-12 years and despite lots of massage, acupuncture and Rolfing, they were only marginally better, until I've read online to keep stretching it. I did constantly. I'm now 100% rotation on the right shoulder. The left shoulder is 95%. But I'm still stiff in the middle in the morning when I get up. But it's definitely better than 5-7 years ago. The shoulder problems kept me up at night, sleep problem.
 
happ said:
a tale about two separate cases.
Case A 61 year old diagnosed with a slow prostrate cancer. He lost his insurance and never did any follow ups. At age 66 on medicare he finds out his prostrate is eat up and had to have it removed. He lost his sex life.
Click to expand...

I have a friend who was diagnosed with prostate cancer in his mid-40s. In his case, surgery probably saved his life. Surgeons found that the cancer had spread beyond the prostate "capsule," and he required follow-up radiation. He's doing well more than 15 years later, although he's still experiencing some side-effects from the surgery, such as sexual dysfunction (I talked with him about his experience after I was diagnosed with prostate cancer).

As part of my "active surveillance" of my condition, I have a regular blood test for prostate-specific antigen (PSA). I'm well under 3, so I feel pretty comfortable putting off surgery.

Of course, I also get the "fickle finger" exam as part of my annual checkup.
 
Crooked: Outwitting the Back Pain Industry and Getting on the Road to Recovery

I listened to the author on a Commonwealth Club podcast. Her research was interesting.
 
I also had a shoulder problem many years ago which I attributed to moving some heavy furniture around the house since it popped up two days after that. For a good month I could not move my arm above my shoulder level. I was patient, did some simple stretching exercises when I remembered to do them, and three months later I as fine. No re-occurrence.

Had back pains for a while. I started doing planks three times a week for a minute to maybe 90 seconds. Pain is gone, back is fine.

Knee bothered me at night due to cartlidge surgery decades ago. I ride my bike 2-3 days a week and it keeps the knee pain away. The knee is still finicky, but given that it is bone-on-bone remarkably OK for 95% of what I like to do in life. The rest of the time I take ibuprofen and keep on.
 
My knee is getting much better now, a combination of acupuncture, hot stone massage, and walking on sandy beach in Hawaii, the sand is very good for you feet.
 
Surgery should be the last resort, even though I had 3 surgeries :(

Over the years, I saw many doctors due to many health issues. The qualities, opinions and believes of doctors differ tremendously. I would never totally believe anyone. Always, always do your homework especially nowadays that information are so easily researched on the web. Also what works for one person may or may not work well for another. A lot of times it is trial and error.

I am a big believer of eating well, exercise and other alternatives. But at times, taking medicine or doing surgery might be the best choice.
 
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