Cyprus govt to seize 6.75% of all bank accounts as of Sat morning

meierlde said:
It is that way in most states in the US, the state has an inactive account law, that means you have to notify the bank that you know about the account. It is possible to get the money back less a handling fee also. In the US lots of states have unclaimed property web sites. Besides actual bank accounts, this includes uncashed cashiers checks, life insurance where the policy holder hits 100. Etc, so it is not new.
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I have a 15k in a credit union about 250 miles away that I did not remove when I moved from there. I have had no action on it in over 15 years. I make sure I continue to get my yearly statements and they always send me CD renewal notices that require no action. Hopefully it will never be a problem, as I have no online access to it or even a debit card. Probably should go get it and move the funds to my local bank, but I never have the desire to drive there and do it.
 
Mulligan said:
I have a 15k in a credit union about 250 miles away that I did not remove when I moved from there. I have had no action on it in over 15 years. I make sure I continue to get my yearly statements and they always send me CD renewal notices that require no action. Hopefully it will never be a problem, as I have no online access to it or even a debit card. Probably should go get it and move the funds to my local bank, but I never have the desire to drive there and do it.
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Could you close the account by mail and have them mail you the check?
 
powerplay said:
Could you close the account by mail and have them mail you the check?
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I don't know if I could. Most of it is in Roth CDs, so I was worried about the problems of transferring it.
 
Do you own your money?

Cyprus: Could it Happen Here? | Alternet

exerpt:
Most people would be surprised to learn that they are legally considered “creditors” of their banks rather than customers who have trusted the bank with their money for safekeeping, but that seems to be the case. According to Wikipedia:

In most legal systems, . . . the funds deposited are no longer the property of the customer. The funds become the property of the bank, and the customer in turn receives an asset called a deposit account (a checking or savings account). That deposit account is a liability of the bank on the bank's books and on its balance sheet. Because the bank is authorized by law to make loans up to a multiple of its reserves, the bank's reserves on hand to satisfy payment of deposit liabilities amounts to only a fraction of the total which the bank is obligated to pay in satisfaction of its demand deposits.
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more follows on bank runs, and the position of the FDIC.
 
Koolau said:
I know we've discussed it before, but for those of us who believe inflation will soon(er or later) rage, anyone have suggestions? Bonds don't seem too good an idea. The stock market usually does well in low to moderate inflation, but rarely in the kind of inflation we had in the 70s/80s. What? Gold? Silver? MREs, guns & ammo?? It's a serious question even though I'm not expressing it seriously (in some folks eyes, anyway). I know some folks did well during the period mentioned. Either they were very, very good at picking a few winning stocks, or they were bloody lucky. Maybe we just have to wait until the belt tightening begins to (eventually) curb the coming inflation. I recall bonds and CDs at (what?) 16%? Sounds great right now, but then again, if inflation is 15%, not so much. YMMV
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I put a very small amount in one of those commodity ETFs, but it is more for education and observation than a real hedge.

What is all this uncertainty doing to me? OMY, unfortunately. Starting to use firecalc input numbers discounted by 20% or so ... Just In Case.
 
IOW, here after 5 years an account is deemed 'dormant' and the money is sent to the state. However, they hold it for you should you ever come forward.... so, not really a tax, but they get to use the money...[/QUOTE]
 
A few months ago a major bank here in the good ole USA put a "dormant" status on a savings account DH and I have that had not had any activity in 4 months. I mean, it was a savings account! Now I keep the money moving.
 
Mulligan said:
I don't know if I could. Most of it is in Roth CDs, so I was worried about the problems of transferring it.
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In that case select the broker or institution you want the funds transfered to, and ask them to help, Vanguard for one is glad to help with this, and in the process makes sure that no 1099s are issued at all. (Not that with a Roth there should be but one never knows). Typically they have a form that you can down load and fill out. The recipient institution will know what form of signature guarantee is needed. (Medallion is typical which requires a real bank to do the guarantee)
 
Back to Cyprus:

From what I read, the parliament balked at the % deposits for bank equity deal that would have allowed the ECB to provide financing to bail out the Cyprus banks.

They went to Russia to get bail out financing instead. Russia not willing to bail them out.

So now the Cyprus government has to either let some of their banks fail which would wipe out a big chunk from most depositors except for the ones insured up to 100K Euros, or go back to the X% of deposits deal and get some ECB assistance. They are now considering taking the cut only from deposits above 100K Euros (which aren't insured), and it might be a big levy - like 20%. Maybe that's a better option than letting some of their banks fail - in which case deposits above 100K Euros wouldn't be protected anyway.

It might not be such a great idea to stash large amounts of uninsured deposits in banks of small countries that are playing fast and loose with their banking investments to pay you outsized interest income.
 
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audreyh1 said:
It might not be such a great idea to stash large amounts of uninsured deposits in banks of small countries that are playing fast and loose with their banking investments to pay you outsized interest income.
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+1

Even if it's insured, you still have to think about whether the government offering the insurance is able and willing to stand behind its promises.
 
Othello. What is the matter, think you?

Cassio. Something from Cyprus as I may divine:
It is a business of some heat.
 
traineeinvestor said:
+1

Even if it's insured, you still have to think about whether the government offering the insurance is able and willing to stand behind its promises.
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Absolutely!!

Methinks certain depositors were "banking" on the ECB bailing out little old Cyprus if any trouble brewed, with no pain to them.

Of course the locals didn't have much choice.
 
brewer12345 said:
What significant effects? The equity market rising? Some Russian gangsters squealing because they might lose some of their dirty money? The You're-a-peeins squabbling over who pays the tab for an evening out? Please.
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I think the article imoldernu linked gave several examples of significant effects. But, like I said, I REALLY hope YOU are correct. We just never know which brick being chipped at could eventually bring the house down. YMMV
 
audreyh1 said:
Back to Cyprus:

From what I read, the parliament balked at the % deposits for bank equity deal that would have allowed the ECB to provide financing to bail out the Cyprus banks.

They went to Russia to get bail out financing instead. Russia not willing to bail them out.

So now the Cyprus government has to either let some of their banks fail which would wipe out a big chunk from most depositors except for the ones insured up to 100K Euros, or go back to the X% of deposits deal and get some ECB assistance. They are now considering taking the cut only from deposits above 100K Euros (which aren't insured), and it might be a big levy - like 20%. Maybe that's a better option than letting some of their banks fail - in which case deposits above 100K Euros wouldn't be protected anyway.

It might not be such a great idea to stash large amounts of uninsured deposits in banks of small countries that are playing fast and loose with their banking investments to pay you outsized interest income.
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Agree that protecting the guaranteed deposits of less than 100k euros is the better approach. I assume the stock and bond holders are wiped out as well.

This so reminds me of Latin America in the 80s. People were thrilled that they could get very high interest rates on their deposits in some banks, 2x - 3x the prevailing rates and with short time commitments. The ran over each other to get their money in before the rate offers were withdrawn. The underlying lesson, that high bank rates are the greatest sign of high bank risk, seems to forever elude people blinded by greed.
 
MichaelB said:
. . . . people blinded by greed.
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My mother wouldn't know an investment from an insect. Yet she always told me that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. That advice has kept me from foolishly chasing yield on many occasions.
 
imoldernu said:
Do you own your money?

Cyprus: Could it Happen Here? | Alternet

exerpt:


more follows on bank runs, and the position of the FDIC.
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That should not be any news to people... the difference is that until a bank fails, they are obligated to pay you your money on demand... that is where a bank run comes... when people feel that the bank is weak and will not be able to pay them their funds...

If the Cypress banks fail and they are recapitalized and the large deposits are cut do to lack of funds.... that is what happens here all the time... we have many bank failures here... and large depositor can lose money..

FDIC: Failed Bank List


One of the differences was that for awhile the US guaranteed ALL demand deposits of a bank... so, no matter how much money you had, as long as you were not being paid interest you were safe...

I hope that they are failing these banks.... IOW, the stockholders are wiped out if they get more capital...
 
Since the article posted by imoldernu mentioned JPMorgan.... I decided to look it up... here is their call report...

https://cdr.ffiec.gov/Public/ViewFacsimileDirect.aspx?ds=call&idType=fdiccert&id=628&date=12312012


What I see is total assets of about $1.9 trillion...

But, I only see insured deposits of $311 billion of non-retirement money and $9 billion of retirement money (I could be looking in the wrong place... but this is what I see)...

Now, total equity is $146 billion.... I think there would have to be a LOT of losses before the FDIC would have to cough up any money to pay insured depositors...

You would first burn through equity, other borrowed money, etc. etc....

So, a $6 billion loss sounds big, but in reality the bank could handle a few of these financially... it might cause some people to think it is not a great place to keep money and that could hurt the bank....


Bottom line is that to big to fail seems to be trying to protect people without any expectation of being insured... because from what I can see there are plenty of assets to handle all insured deposits...


I would bet that at the end of the day this would also be the case with the banks in Cypress.... IOW, the insured deposits should be safe.... it might wipe out all equity, all bondholders and a big part of uninsured deposits... but still have enough for insured deposit... to me, this is why the way they are going about the 'fix' is wrong... the people who are supposed to lose by the rules prior to this money grab are not losing...
 
They still drive on the left in Cyprus - no wonder the rest of Europe won't bail them out.
 
Didn't Cyprus use to be a British colony ? Maybe the UK should bail them first instead of counting on Germany and France :)
Alan said:
They still drive on the left in Cyprus - no wonder the rest of Europe won't bail them out.
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obgyn65 said:
Didn't Cyprus use to be a British colony ? Maybe the UK should bail them first instead of counting on Germany and France :)
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Britain still has 3,500 troops stationed there, plus 60,000 ex-pats.

Since Britain decided not to join the euro, I expect that their response to a suggested bailout would be, "We told you it would end in tears."
 
This episode will give many who have banked euros in economically troubled countries pause. I predict that many will start putting their savings under their mattresses.

That is not to say that this is not the best solution for the problem Cyprus is facing.
 
Looks like a new deal is nearly done. Of course there have been several "deals" almost done, so hard to be sure about what will happen until it's finalized. Banks appear to be honoring the EU bank guarantee of accounts under 100,000 Euro and taking most or at least a large amount out of any deposits above that amount.

In many ways this is like FDIC insurance in that in case of an insolvent bank, deposits up to the insured limit are guaranteed and above that are not. In practice FDIC has worked to make those depositors with large accounts lose little, but the confidence in the system through the stated guarantee remains.

This solution, if it sticks, should avoid the worst of the loss of confidence that would come from governments changing the terms of the bank guarantee to confiscate a percentage of all accounts. Meanwhile Russia was reportedly advising all their citizens to withdraw everything from all Western banks. Not sure what they were supposed to do with it then.
 
growing_older said:
/snip/ Meanwhile Russia was reportedly advising all their citizens to withdraw everything from all Western banks. Not sure what they were supposed to do with it then.
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Why, put it in the Russian bank that is run by the Russian gvmt of course....


But, kind of defeats the purpose of hiding your money from the tax man....
 
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