Your Asset protection Plan?

[fivefive]

Hi,
The typical poster here will likely be sitting on a hard earned pile of cash.
Lawyers are everywhere as are their potential clients that want your money.
Say you make a mistake behind the wheel, or you (after a life of responsible behavior) get in a fist fight. Someone gets hurt or fakes being hurt.

Insurance is certainly a form of protection, but is it enough? How about trusts?

 

[aja8888]

Are you selling something?

 

[sengsational]

I've heard a lot of folks here buy umbrella policies.

 

[NW-Bound]

Beyond an umbrella policy, I only have my camouflage; nobody suspects that I have money.

On the other hand, a trust reportedly provides OJ Simpson with financial protection. However, it did not keep him from serving a 33-year sentence with 9 years minimum from his antics in Las Vegas.

 

[Mulligan]

Beyond an umbrella policy, I only have my camouflage; nobody suspects that I have money.

On the other hand, a trust reportedly provides OJ Simpson with financial protection. However, it did not keep him from serving a 33-year sentence with 9 years minimum from his antics in Las Vegas.

I was at that place the week before he pulled his "antics". I am kind of neutral on my preference to either ever spend another weekend there again, or serve a 9 year minimum.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ajs56]

I guess I don't know what else one can do other than be careful and have adequate insurance, whatever that is.

 

[aja8888]

On the other hand, a trust reportedly provides OJ Simpson with financial protection. However, it did not keep him from serving a 33-year sentence with 9 years minimum from his antics in Las Vegas.

I'm sure this put a damper on OJ's quest to find his wife's killer by searching all the golf courses in the free world.

Will he need life insurance while in the slammer?

 

[splitwdw]

Say you make a mistake behind the wheel, or you (after a life of responsible behavior) get in a fist fight. Someone gets hurt or fakes being hurt.

FIST FIGHT How old are you?

 

[inquisitive]

FIST FIGHT How old are you?

Older persons are not allowed to get into fist fights?

My plan is to get an umbrella policy on net worth minus already covered assets, with a buffer. Eg if there is a homestead exemption in your state, it will cover a certain amount, and then there is auto insurance, other policies. Beyond this an umbrella should cover net worth, and then a buffer for legal expenses.

I'm not familiar with trusts, how can they be used for asset protection? And how do others decide on how much umbrella coverage to get?

 

[scrinch]

Why relate the umbrella coverage to net worth? The insurance policy doesn't cover your assets, it just covers liability up to the policy limit. Why not buy a $5 million policy, even if your assets are only $2 million. Or a $1 million policy? Shouldn't your policy be sized for the level of liability you feel you might need and for the level of protection you feel comfortable with?

 

[steelyman]

FIST FIGHT How old are you?

This made me laugh!

I keep thinking about John L. Sullivan and his handlebar mustache and Jack Johnson and his gold teeth.

Get over here, you got a whoopin coming to you

 

[38Chevy454]

Beyond auto insurance or your home liability coverage, an umbrella policy will cover any extra amount, up to the limit of policy.

Or just remember dead men don't talk.....

 

[NW-Bound]

This made me laugh!

I keep thinking about John L. Sullivan and his handlebar mustache and Jack Johnson and his gold teeth.

Get over here, you got a whoopin coming to you

How did you learn of John Sullivan and Jack Johnson? I had to look them up.

Anyhow, talk of "whoopin" and the recent mention of the movie Fargo on this forum reminded me of the following scene at 2:30 in the clip.

 

[pb4uski]

Why relate the umbrella coverage to net worth? The insurance policy doesn't cover your assets, it just covers liability up to the policy limit. Why not buy a $5 million policy, even if your assets are only $2 million. Or a $1 million policy? Shouldn't your policy be sized for the level of liability you feel you might need and for the level of protection you feel comfortable with?

Most references I have seen regarding how much insurance to buy is a function of NW, I suspect because you want to protect your net assets in a suit.

The reality is that you are not only buying protection, but also the best lawyers the umbrella carrier can buy to avoid paying a $2m+ claim.

 

[growing_older]

My plan is to get an umbrella policy on net worth minus already covered assets, with a buffer. Eg if there is a homestead exemption in your state, it will cover a certain amount, and then there is auto insurance, other policies. Beyond this an umbrella should cover net worth, and then a buffer for legal expenses.

Although people often cite figuring like this as a guideline for sizing umbrella policies, this is not how it works. A $1 million umbrella policy does not protect your $1 million net worth and then pay any claims to protect your $1 million. The policy will pay claims up to the limit, then you are responsible for any overage. So your $1 million policy and $1 million net worth would both be used to pay a $2 million claim, leaving you with zero. Likewise claims over $2 million will wipe out your policy and your net worth and leave you owing any overage.

To size an umbrella policy, the relevant number is largest claim you want to protect against, not networth. Now people with very low net worth may not bother with umbrella protection because they are poor targets for litigation, there just isn't much there to win. But that doesn't mean as net worth grows you need a corresponding size umbrella policy. It means once your networth is substantial enough to be worth bothering to sue you, you need umbrella coverage to protect against the largest claim you could reasonably face.

 

[steelyman]

How did you learn of John Sullivan and Jack Johnson? I had to look them up.

John L. Sullivan was iconic that everybody knew about.

Jack Johnson is the subject of a great Ken Burns documentary called "Unforgiveable Blackness".

 

[aja8888]

John L. Sullivan was iconic that everybody knew about.

(almost everybody)

 

[RetireAge50]

We have the maximum amount of insurance plus an umbrella. Assets are also somewhat protected in 401ks and IRAs. But none of this protects us as much as living a fairly clean life and being fairly unlikely to punch someone in the face.

 

[steelyman]

(almost everybody)

Well, maybe more now! Turn of the century, bare-knuckled fighters. They were nuts. Later, the white guys wouldn't fight Johnson. Ali admired his style.

 

[aja8888]

Well, maybe more now! Turn of the century, bare-knuckled fighters. They were nuts. Later, the white guys wouldn't fight Johnson. Ali admired his style.

Yep, no gloves, no set rounds, fought until ref stopped it or you gave up.

 

[Travelwanted]

This is a great subject. And, no doubt a bigger threat than most want to realize. While the likelihood of a suit is low, the effects are great. A big part of the cost of a suit is paying the lawyers. With an umbrella, the insurance company will fit the bill. And that could save you tens of thousands alone. And, losing a suit could wipe you out.

We use an umbrella and a family LLC. Worked too damn hard for what we have and there are sharks everywhere. Titling assets is yet another way (variant of family LLC). And, BTW, umbrella policies are cheap. Just use a company that writes lots of them, like Chubb or PURE if you are looking at a $5 million + policy. Companies like State Farm don't write many higher end policies so they get more expensive.

 

[athena53]

We've got most of our non-IRA assets in a revocable trust, including the house. We've got a $2 million Umbrella policy on top of that.

 

[panhead]

Umbrella policy here as well. There was a thread on Bogleheads about sizing, and since I have just gone through this process, I'll share my thinking. Take your net worth, subtract any shielded assets (house, 401ks, etc) add a reasonable amount for future wages and size it that way. so if you make about 100k and you expect to have 20 more years of human capital add 20*$100,000 so another $2M.

I got some pushback on this, but the way I look at it is, this is the the maximum amount of money I will ever have, so if you take that away, I'll have nothing anyway. Yes, I'm aware that a larger suit would start to eat into my personal assets, but as I pointed out over there, at that point, an ELE (extinction level event) may become more likely than the lawsuit, lol!

I've also considered paying off my house even though I have a very low interest rate, as once i file the homestead papers, it is protected as well.

I have my two family in a realty trust. I've never looked at other forms of trusts for protection, probably something I should look into.

 

[rockyj]

We've got most of our non-IRA assets in a revocable trust, including the house. We've got a $2 million Umbrella policy on top of that.

How does your revocable trust provide asset protection? Things I am reading in this regard say since you retain control of assets in a revocable trust, they still are effectively your assets and still are exposed to creditors or other judgements. I am asking as we may be updating our estate planning with transition to retirement.

 

[athena53]

How does your revocable trust provide asset protection? Things I am reading in this regard say since you retain control of assets in a revocable trust, they still are effectively your assets and still are exposed to creditors or other judgements. I am asking as we may be updating our estate planning with transition to retirement.

I'm pretty sure that's what the lawyer said but maybe I better check again.