Anyone used Vanguard's Personal Advisor Services?

[seraphim]

Rather interesting, in regards I understand that John Bogle and the new administration at Vanguard have been at odds about the way things are being handled since he retired. Wonder if this is one of those items of contention...

 

[trapperjohn]

If you meet the Voyager Select or Flagship criteria and are comfortable with doing everything yourself, a fee based service is unnecessary. This product seems to be targeted to the newer investors in the $100-$500k range that would do better with some hand holding. A lot of folks aren't comfortable rebalancing or aren't focused enough to handle this or other aspects of investing efficiently. For those folks, most of whom would not want to pay a financial planner to draw up a plan, this is relatively inexpensive guidance and education.

I just heard about this service yesterday, even though it's apparently been around for a few years now. I went to this article which introduces the service.

Apparently now, you have to only have at least $50K, and the 0.3% annual fee is charged regardless of the size of your portfolio ... regardless of whether you meet Voyager or Flagship status or not.

Still, I agree with other earlier posts. This seems to be a good service for some situations, but not generally for those people who frequent this forum.

 

[easysurfer]

The person "Assigned" to my portfolio called ( (not initiated by me) me today . I did not answer and just let my voice mail pick up.

 

[Fedup]

I wouldn't pay Vanguard a dime more. They are cheap for a reason. I have account with them but getting advice from them. They can't even process my paperwork correctly.

 

[misshathaway]

I wouldn't pay for an ongoing service, but I think most people can get the one-time free service. I was very happy with that. I was transferring in to Vanguard a bunch of 401K's at different brokerages.

Yes the mutual fund picks and allocations pretty much matched the ones in the target funds, but the advisor created a detailed plan with my amounts coming in and where they should go. Also there were some tax-advantage details that I did not know, and things I did not think about like having an equity and bond bucket set up in IRA and taxable accounts so you have something to put the money in when rebalancing.

Also he ran whatever the Vanguard correlate is to FireCalc and confirmed that my assets have a 99% chance of getting me to I think 95. It was reassuring to have another pair of eyes looking at it.

 

[GolfingDuo]

I recently got a letter from Vanguard offering their Personal Advisor Services. It appears this is a new service (but not sure). And am also not sure if there is a fee for this. I'm tempted to contact them. Does anyone have any experience with this service?

My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.

Oh just for an addendum Ameriprise charges a whopping $800 per year with no on going obligation. If you don't like the advisor you can just say thanks. Taking the plan they gave you and keeping it. So it is entirely up to you if you want to continue.

Last point I want to say is you do not have to have a financial planner as you grow older and save for your retirement. That is fairly easy. It is at the point when you begin to make the transition from accumulation to spending that a plan is advisable. If you are single then it is pretty simple. If you are married it might be a different story. It gets both spouses thinking about what they want out of their retirement.

 

[woodguy00]

Vanguard's service is our option in event of my early death for DW as well. As long as I'm vertical, I plan to manage the investments but DW doesn't have the interest or experience and would prefer some help at a reasonable cost.

As for Ameriprise, I was an advisor/ planner with them many years ago for about a year. At least then, the financial planning was the hook to get the asset management business. Variable annuities baby. Great commissions for the planner. I was young, naive and thought I was doing the right thing for my clients.


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[target2019]

My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.

Oh just for an addendum Ameriprise charges a whopping $800 per year with no on going obligation. If you don't like the advisor you can just say thanks. Taking the plan they gave you and keeping it. So it is entirely up to you if you want to continue.

Last point I want to say is you do not have to have a financial planner as you grow older and save for your retirement. That is fairly easy. It is at the point when you begin to make the transition from accumulation to spending that a plan is advisable. If you are single then it is pretty simple. If you are married it might be a different story. It gets both spouses thinking about what they want out of their retirement.

And be sure to add in the funds' expenses. Were there trading costs?
That all has to be taken into account. That would be a fantastic deal if the advisor fee were held to just $800 per year.

For a Vanguard PAS, you would calculate a weighted expense ratio of all funds and ETFs invested in. Then add the PAS fee of .30.

On a 1M portfolio invested with Vanguard, and average weighted expense ratio across all funds of .15 (for example), you would end up with .45 expense ratio when adding the PAS. This would amount to $4500 in actual fees, both to PAS and to internal funds (and ETFs) for one year.

We are prepared to work things out on our own. We use the lowest cost index funds across all investment accounts. The weighted e/r is just under .16. So the expenses on a 1M portfolio would be about $1600 per year.

Honestly, we don't need to pay anyone additional fees. However, when one of us goes to the great forum in the sky, it is understood that some advice may be required to consolidate.

 

[GolfingDuo]

Vanguard's service is our option in event of my early death for DW as well. As long as I'm vertical, I plan to manage the investments but DW doesn't have the interest or experience and would prefer some help at a reasonable cost.

As for Ameriprise, I was an advisor/ planner with them many years ago for about a year. At least then, the financial planning was the hook to get the asset management business. Variable annuities baby. Great commissions for the planner. I was young, naive and thought I was doing the right thing for my clients.


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You might have been. It is a matter of perception. My friend looked at it this way. He worked for another financial company. I don't remember which he told me but after going through the interview process and he is at his desk at the office the supervisors came to him with a blank piece of paper and asked him to list all family and friends and they were going to visit them. He sat at his desk and thought long and hard about this. At the end of the day he went to the boss and handed them a blank piece of paper said goodbye and never looked back. He found Ameriprise right after that and he had already had license in investing and insurance so his qualifications were good. Ameriprise did not ask him for those in fact they were pretty adamant that he would be wise not to do that especially initially because it might affect the relationship.

Take this ahead 15 years or so and he still works for Ameriprise. He came to my house with one objective in mind. He and I talked about stuff and I wasn't sure if my wife would buy into what he would say either so I told him that. We are pretty savvy at stuff and can smell a rat and a trap. We have fallen into a few of them. When it was said and done my wife hired him. We have had him at our home 3 times as we work through our financial plan.

Our next step is to complete our short and long term plans. We have made adjustments to our investments and no before you ask we didn't transfer any funds to him. What the plan will do is give my wife a road map to follow in my demise. It provides me the same as we will have all the forms lined up and our safe has the stuff that needs to be protected.

I am not saying you didn't feel that way. I am just saying that my experience with Ameriprise has been positive. They are regulated by a number of laws and rules. It is important that you understand those rules and understand any advice you are given. I say ask the questions that will give you the answers. If they can't explain then they need to try again or send someone that can explain. You do have to listen though because the concepts are strange to some. Maybe not so much here with the smart folks on ER but some people even in a very low income and savings situation that could use a road map.

In answer to your question target2019 is that is just the financial planning. No money or investments were made. There are fee and they do that. They explain that and since I am not investing with them I am not paying that. My daughter will get a new Roth paid for by us beginning today and I will learn the fees but as I remember them they seemed reasonable as he explained them. I believe that they amounted to less than 2% annually. I will post them tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. I told him to find us a few funds that would allow us a 70/30 mix of funds with more or less a target date of 2050. We might be investing in one of those but I have not seen the options yet. My daughter works for Dept of Children and Families (a social worker) and will have a nice pension from the state if she stays in for 30 years. We are just supplementing her retirement by gifting 5k per year to be put in her Roth. As long as she leaves it in there we will continue to invest for her. She is our only child so we can do that without much of a problem.

 

[rayinpenn]

I've worked for a large financial institution for many years and I would never trust any of them. I am often gravely disappointed with some of their choices/behaviors...

Let's say you choose a large financial institution to manage your money.. They've got new product and it isn't selling very well.. Ask yourself what kind of pressure will your financial manager get to put some his clients funds into that loser? When was the last time you've heard of an advisor being prosecuted for choosing inappropriate investments for his client.

I'll stick with low cost highly diversified mutual funds thank you...
Study after study says no one beats the market over time so why pay to lose?


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[REWahoo]

I am just saying that my experience with Ameriprise has been positive.

In the 14 years I've been reading this forum this is the only time I can recall seeing a positive statement regarding Ameriprise.

 

[target2019]

In answer to your question target2019 is that is just the financial planning. No money or investments were made. There are fee and they do that. They explain that and since I am not investing with them I am not paying that. My daughter will get a new Roth paid for by us beginning today and I will learn the fees but as I remember them they seemed reasonable as he explained them. I believe that they amounted to less than 2% annually. I will post them tonight or tomorrow when I get a chance. I told him to find us a few funds that would allow us a 70/30 mix of funds with more or less a target date of 2050. We might be investing in one of those but I have not seen the options yet. My daughter works for Dept of Children and Families (a social worker) and will have a nice pension from the state if she stays in for 30 years. We are just supplementing her retirement by gifting 5k per year to be put in her Roth. As long as she leaves it in there we will continue to invest for her. She is our only child so we can do that without much of a problem.

Sounds like a reasonable amount for a plan. If it fits your needs, even better.
BTW, most in this forum believe that 2% in fees for a fund or etf are not reasonable.

 

[REWahoo]

BTW, most in this forum believe that 2% in fees for a fund or etf are not reasonable.

You win the prize for Understatement of the Day.

 

[target2019]

You win the prize for Understatement of the Day.

Still plenty of time to go in this day! Other winners may be in play as we speak.

Where marriage is a factor, the amount paid to an FA could be less than the price of years of unhappiness when "you didn't listen."

This reminds me of paying a consultant to come in and take the fall.

Some of use learn by different methods. I was very comfortable reading a Bogle book, and declaring that was the way. Some want to pay more for financial education. It all works out, I suppose.

 

[Midpack]

My friend works for Ameriprise and has been doing that for about 15 years. He is a person of high integrity and wouldn't work for them if he didn't believe in what they do. His work is a financial planner as well as investment counselor.

I had not thought I would need one and in fact I pretty much had our retirement thought out but DW wasn't convinced. So I called my friend who came to my home and now DW and I are beginning to talk the same song. We both have different things we would like to do but those things are beginning to be more alike than it was when we got to my retirement date. If someone wants the number to Ameriprise or if they live in the New England area and want my friends number just PM me.

All well and good. OTH, the Amerprise office near me (Chicagoland) are complete crooks. They take advantage of clients, and belittle them behind their backs. Meetings were all about generating fees, advisors who didn't were fired. How do I know? DW was executive assistant to the branch GM for almost 2 years, and saw the abuse daily. Needless to say, we didn't invest there. DW quit in disgust in under 2 years.

Caveat emptor as always...

 

[Matthew J]

I just got done using Vanguard personal advisor services in February. I can't remember if they initiated the conversation or I did however the experience was good and I was very straightforward every single time I met with them that I was not going to pay a 0.3% fee to have my assets managed but that I just was using the service for the recommended asset allocations.

After about three or four meetings with their advisor we finally had some asset allocations set up for college savings, retirement savings, and my legacy savings. The retirement plan took into account my pension and my wife's type of retirement she will get as a teacher.

Overall, the experience let me know that I was investing pretty close to the way the Vanguard plan said I should be.

The biggest issue Vanguard resolved for me was helping me set up my asset allocations, which I have applied to non-Vanguard savings plans. So, for the price I paid (nothing) having another perspective to take into consideration was worth it for me.


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[MRG]

In answer to your question target2019 is that is just the financial planning. No money or investments were made. There are fee and they do that. They explain that and since I am not investing with them I am not paying that. My daughter will get a new Roth paid for by us beginning today and I will learn the fees but as I remember them they seemed reasonable as he explained them. I believe that they amounted to less than 2% annually.

No offense intended but you really should learn more about fees. Two percent is highway robbery!

That's over 2.5 times the average ER of a fund according to the ICI! Many here pay .1% or less. Why would Ameriprise sold funds do any better? Truth is the same funds you can get at Ameriprise(or any other FA) you can buy directly yourself sans the 12B1 or loads.

Your friend may be a good guy. But he's not doing any of his clients any favors. I watched my conservative Christian DF sell annuities his whole life. He thought they were good investments, that's all he knew. After retirement he started DIY with Fidelity, he was very ashamed of what his career had been.


FYI my career was IT in the fund industry. I've been to many different fund companies and watched how they operate their businesses. There's exactly 3 fund companies, out of the 300 fund companies in the states that I would invest with. None of them sell through FA'S.

Google mutual fund fees and learn how to save your investments.

 

[Another Reader]

"FYI my career was IT in the fund industry. I've been to many different fund companies and watched how they operate their businesses. There's exactly 3 fund companies, out of the 300 fund companies in the states that I would invest with. None of them sell through FA'S. "

Can we get that list?

Seriously, doing it yourself is the only way to insure no one is taking advantage of you. All those folks out there with spouses that stick their heads in the sand would do themselves and their spouses a favor by insisting they learn about the family finances and investing. Make the first appointment with the estate planning attorney, not a financial "adviser."

 

[Amethyst]

I got a free VG plan in 2006. It came with a free 45-minute consultation with an adviser. I have kept the plan as an interesting snapshot of where we were in time, but intrinsically, it had little value. They told us to convert everything to Vanguard funds, and we would have been willing; but most of our assets weren't fungible, so converting would have been a big tax hit. They could not offer any advice on that!

 

[MRG]

Can we get that list?

Sure it's normally referred to as the big three here. In no particular order Vanguard, Fidelity, and Schwab.

All have low fee index funds or ETf's. They all offer a hack gaurentee in case they are hit.

 

[GolfingDuo]

No offense intended but you really should learn more about fees. Two percent is highway robbery!

That's over 2.5 times the average ER of a fund according to the ICI! Many here pay .1% or less. Why would Ameriprise sold funds do any better? Truth is the same funds you can get at Ameriprise(or any other FA) you can buy directly yourself sans the 12B1 or loads.

Your friend may be a good guy. But he's not doing any of his clients any favors. I watched my conservative Christian DF sell annuities his whole life. He thought they were good investments, that's all he knew. After retirement he started DIY with Fidelity, he was very ashamed of what his career had been.


FYI my career was IT in the fund industry. I've been to many different fund companies and watched how they operate their businesses. There's exactly 3 fund companies, out of the 300 fund companies in the states that I would invest with. None of them sell through FA'S.

Google mutual fund fees and learn how to save your investments.

First off I said I am sure it was less than 2% annually and I believe it is much lower than that. If we invest in the Roth for our daughter we will know up front. The reason I trust him is he did not ask me to transfer any money from my accounts or my wife's accounts for him to manage. I know that he told me that he does get a commission when a fund is sold but it was for him very little money. Again I don't have any of the funds that he is going to recommend because he will be here today.

As for everyone that has mutual funds you cannot get away without paying some fees. I don't remember the code number they are known by but I do know even someone who says to Fidelity I want X or Y fund you pay a commission to buy in and maintenance fees. You also pay transaction fees.

"FYI my career was IT in the fund industry. I've been to many different fund companies and watched how they operate their businesses. There's exactly 3 fund companies, out of the 300 fund companies in the states that I would invest with. None of them sell through FA'S. "

Can we get that list?

Seriously, doing it yourself is the only way to insure no one is taking advantage of you. All those folks out there with spouses that stick their heads in the sand would do themselves and their spouses a favor by insisting they learn about the family finances and investing. Make the first appointment with the estate planning attorney, not a financial "adviser."

Anyone that has mutual funds you cannot get away without paying some fees. I don't remember the code number they are known by but I do know even someone who says to Fidelity I want X or Y fund you pay a commission to buy in and maintenance fees. You also pay transaction fees.

The point is what are you comfortable paying and how good of fund are you getting into. Does that money manager make money for his clients? If he doesn't or the fees are exorbitant then your investment is going to struggle. There are A shares and C shares. A shares are front end loaded where C shares are not. These are all within the same fund name. Again it is a matter of trust. Ask the questions and take it upon yourself to know. In the case of my friend in Ameriprise he may be unique and alone in the system. He may not. I just know that he has taken care of his customers as he was recommended by another friend who has him as his financial advisor as well.

I promise I will before we send any money to the fund we will ask the questions. I will also ask here when he leaves and see what you guys think. It might be a day or so before I can get it up here but I will put it out for you to see. It don't mean I am going to take your advice since advice here is free and free advice from anonymous sources are to be evaluated just as hard as those you pay for.

 

[GTFan]

LOL, yet another person here that is convinced that he can't do it himself even though it's really not that hard, requires little setup or management and lets you keep all those fees for yourself.
(Hint: see https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios and https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_LifeStrategy_Funds).

Good luck with Ameriprise, hope that your friend does well for you. I mean that sincerely, but would not advise anyone here reading this thread to go that route.

 

[RetireAge50]

Hey GolfingDuo-I'm pretty sure you are just joking around here about Ameriprise. But in case you are serious I hope you know what you are doing especially since you are leading your daughter down the same path.

To me 2% is a lot of fees. If you have $1M and plan annual withdrawals of $40,000 or so Ameriprise will be getting half of it. It makes me sick to think about it.

 

[GolfingDuo]

LOL, yet another person here that is convinced that he can't do it himself even though it's really not that hard, requires little setup or management and lets you keep all those fees for yourself.
(Hint: see https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios and https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_LifeStrategy_Funds).

Good luck with Ameriprise, hope that your friend does well for you. I mean that sincerely, but would not advise anyone here reading this thread to go that route.

Thanks for your input. Personally I don't think I will take advice from you.

Hey GolfingDuo-I'm pretty sure you are just joking around here about Ameriprise. But in case you are serious I hope you know what you are doing especially since you are leading your daughter down the same path.

To me 2% is a lot of fees. If you have $1M and plan annual withdrawals of $40,000 or so Ameriprise will be getting half of it. It makes me sick to think about it.

And you I would treat you as a used car salesman. You would not even get into my front door with any advice.




Just so that you know why I said that to the two of you. It is obvious you didn't read my entire post. If you had you would not be treating me as if I was stupid.

 

[GolfingDuo]

now I know why I didn't stay here for help. It would seem as if that if you do not agree with your ideas then you are shunned.