Why am I still working?

[medved]

I posted some of this buried in another thread, but I thought by starting my own thread I might get some useful feedback from people who have struggled with the same issues I am.

I am 52 years old. I have worked hard, devoted too much of my life to work, and lived with too way much stress. I rose to a pretty high level in my occupation, though I never really enjoyed it. My job has high, and continuously increasing, expectations and in some ways is 24/7. (Obviously, I am not actually working 24/7, but I am always "on call" and connected, even during vacations). The money is good -- seven figures a year. But of course they don't pay that sort of money and not get their pound of flesh in return. There's a lot of internal politics, which I dislike. I have lived below my means, though not as frugally as many on this board who seem to be skilled at maintaining a high quality of life on relatively little money. Still, I have managed to build an investment portfolio of around $15 million, plus a house that is fully paid for.

I am trying to figure out why I am still working. In psychoanalyzing myself, this is what I have come up with:

• Habit/inertia (easiest to just keep doing what I have done for many years)
• Everyone else I know is working, and nearly nobody in my business retires early?
• An ingrained belief that a guy gets up in the morning and goes to an office?
• A fear that if things go really, really badly, we might not have enough money to live the lifestyle we want (even though Firecalc consistently shows no such scenarios)?
• Not wanting to retire while we still live in the suburbs and have a kid at home (a few more years) because I am not sure what I would spend my time doing?
• Some part of my identity is tied up in professional stature and achievement? (I would really like to think that is not the case, but I am trying to be honest with myself)
• Fear of the unknown?
• Some personal relationships within my organization (and nationally in the industry) that I like, and would probably lose after retirement
• At my current income, each additional year has significant economic value (but of course non-economic costs).

I realize that, in the end, I just need to decide how much longer to work. And I am intensely aware that life is short. But for those of you who have struggled with some of the same issues and considerations, I am interested in your ideas. Thanks.

 

[Lakewood90712]

To the OP. If you had the opportunity to buy one more year of life in good health , what would you pay ? Most only get to live part of our life in retirement in good health.

Unless you love the job so much, could be time to jump and try something part time.

 

[Walt34]

Welcome to the forum!

Clearly, unless you're planning on maintaining a private jet you have enough to retire although you didn't mention a spend rate.

It sounds to me like perhaps you haven't thought through what you're going to retire to. This is a topic often discussed here.

BTW, although I think you have enough to cover these questions it may be worthwhile for you to consider them.

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...re-asking-can-i-retire-69999.html#post1399715

 

[DrRoy]

I am 57, about 1/10 of your income, 1/4 of your portfolio, house paid off, and will RE in 3.5 months. I recognize the issues that you listed, but I have the resources to live without the paycheck as you do, and I no longer want my employment to control my life as much as it does. I also am on call anytime, although not regularly inconvenienced by it. I hate it when it does, and I do have to stay in contact during vacation. It once kept me from hiking into the Grand Canyon as I wanted to. It may be an issue for me to keep occupied over the long haul, but that will just be the next challenge. I will see if I can turn my hobby of photography into a side activity of photo services for pay. There is also volunteering. I hear in your post someone who is ready to go.

 

[travelover]

I've been retired for about 10 years. At the risk of sounding simplistic, I think one needs to do what makes them happiest. Are you happy working?

 

[jabbahop]

despite your wealth, you sound tortured by your success.

Re your worry about "something really, really bad happening" - here is a question. Do you think 1) the odds are greater that something so bad happens that affects your standard of living or 2) something really bad happens to your health that affects your ability to enjoy that standard of living.

A number of us have been through health scares that made me conclude that number 2 was more likely.

Only you can answer the living in retirement questions you brought up. I have been retired less than two years and am still figuring it out.

One suggestion that others have made on this board is see if you can take an extended vacation/leave of absence and try it out. My old company offered 6 week "sabbaticals" every 5 years of service. My last one I just sat around and puttered vs having a full slate agenda of travel and projects (too much like work) and found that I really enjoyed that pace. That was what caused me to start thinking about retirement.

I wish you the well in your decision.

 

[bingybear]

As my Fido rep kept telling me when I complained about the stress at work. He'd say "you work because you want to"

 

[Markola]

Maybe you could teach/write/lecture. You obviously know what you're doing and have achieved success that others would like to emulate. Sharing what you know with the next generation would let you stay plugged in, control your time and retain or even increase your stature in your field. Good luck.

 

[bradaz2488]

As you probably already know it is not just one thing that is holding you back from pulling the trigger. It's most likely a combination of everything on your comprehensive list. Given your high achievement in your profession maybe the "self identity" is more heavy weighted. We all have work "egos" and it is nice to be able to talk about what you do with others in social circles. No one can (or should) tell you when it is time to jump off the retirement cliff. It is obvious you are financial able to retire, unless your annual expenses are north of $400K , but mentally it sounds like you need to spend some serious time thinking it over.

 

[sengsational]

Like most of us here, you sound like a "rat racer" (in Tal Ben-Shahar PSY 1504 terms), so you have been working for the future at something where are not finding much joy. You probably have a "bigger problem" than someone making 1/10th what you make since, making that kind of money, how could you NOT be wrapped-up in your job being "you"?

If you're very lucky, you'll have something "meaningful" that you can return to (as Travelover said, something to retire TO). If, like some of us here, have "forgotten how to have fun" (i.e. something that you enjoy doing and has some kind of meaning), then the "happiness" you get from quitting will be short-lived. It's like having a headache, you're glad it's gone, but after it's been gone a while, you're back to where you were before. Maybe you could find meaning in buying plane tickets for the first 10 people who answered this post

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I am having this same conversation with myself, though my own numbers don't look as spectacular as yours. My favorite answer (to myself) is- so if I quit, and I don't like being retired, I can always get another job. I don't ever want to work in my industry again, but I am certainly employable, and I could get a job at a salary that would support us at our current spending rate EASILY.

Also I think I'd like to teach a class at the local university- I'm sure it doesn't pay much, but I don't really need the money, and if I hate it, I can quit that too.

The BS at work is becoming unbearable, and as we could retire now at a 3.5% wd rate AND my husband has no intention of retiring, it won't be long for me.

 

[socca]

Another thing to consider: intellectual challenge/stimulation. I was able to leave the corporate world 10 years ago to (in part) work in the family business. If you buy into the idea of 'use it or lose it', this may apply to the mind as well as the body.

 

[Safari Lover]

Maybe you could teach/write/lecture. You obviously know what you're doing and have achieved success that others would like to emulate. Sharing what you know with the next generation would let you stay plugged in, control your time and retain or even increase your stature in your field. Good luck.

^^^^this.

Or start a consulting business. You have a portfolio of talents. Trust me this is more satisfying than the ego boost and BS one puts up with in corp world.

Used to be all college adjuncts were master degree level and above. I supplemented my consulting business income by doing this for 5 years. Also helped get me clients. $2500.00 one night a week, 3 hours, for 8 weeks. Not bad, kept up my skills as I was teaching what I consulted in. Also gave me exposure to other industries as this was night classes with full time working students.

Become a brand. Write a talk about something you know well, go do corp gigs paying $75,000 for 90 minutes, expenses paid. I know someone who does this. Of course she's been doing this for 15 years now.

You, I'd say retire to. 15 million no worries, even if both of you end up in a home in old age. No stupid investing, you got it taken care of.

 

[Cap_Scarlet]

I posted some of this buried in another thread, but I thought by starting my own thread I might get some useful feedback from people who have struggled with the same issues I am.

I am 52 years old. I have worked hard, devoted too much of my life to work, and lived with too way much stress. I rose to a pretty high level in my occupation, though I never really enjoyed it. My job has high, and continuously increasing, expectations and in some ways is 24/7. (Obviously, I am not actually working 24/7, but I am always "on call" and connected, even during vacations). The money is good -- seven figures a year. But of course they don't pay that sort of money and not get their pound of flesh in return. There's a lot of internal politics, which I dislike. I have lived below my means, though not as frugally as many on this board who seem to be skilled at maintaining a high quality of life on relatively little money. Still, I have managed to build an investment portfolio of around $15 million, plus a house that is fully paid for.

I am trying to figure out why I am still working. In psychoanalyzing myself, this is what I have come up with:

• Habit/inertia (easiest to just keep doing what I have done for many years)
• Everyone else I know is working, and nearly nobody in my business retires early?
• An ingrained belief that a guy gets up in the morning and goes to an office?
• A fear that if things go really, really badly, we might not have enough money to live the lifestyle we want (even though Firecalc consistently shows no such scenarios)?
• Not wanting to retire while we still live in the suburbs and have a kid at home (a few more years) because I am not sure what I would spend my time doing?
• Some part of my identity is tied up in professional stature and achievement? (I would really like to think that is not the case, but I am trying to be honest with myself)
• Fear of the unknown?
• Some personal relationships within my organization (and nationally in the industry) that I like, and would probably lose after retirement
• At my current income, each additional year has significant economic value (but of course non-economic costs).

I realize that, in the end, I just need to decide how much longer to work. And I am intensely aware that life is short. But for those of you who have struggled with some of the same issues and considerations, I am interested in your ideas. Thanks.

There's nothing in your post which talks about:

1. What you like to do other than work.
2. What your family thinks.

Your post is all about work.

Its ludicrous to be worried about money. You have plenty but you know that.

What you need to work out is what your life would like to do if you were not working and what you would really like to do with your time.

 

[rdy2go]

A friend of mine is a physician, net worth of close to $10 million and still goes to work because he has nothing else to do besides work. No hobbies, wife is a workaholic, can't play golf every day, kids are busy with their own lives, etc. He enjoys his work now that he doesn't have to work, enjoys treating patients, doing surgery and I think it helps his self-worth to be helpful, looked up to in the community and all. I retired from a thankless corporate job with little status and have plenty to keep me busy in retirement.

If you don't have anything that you'd rather be doing then I guess work is still meaningful for you. For some of us, the work was no longer enjoyable and not wrth the trade of money for our time.

 

[steveark]

Retire!

I loved my corporate high pressure job for 36 years then an ownership change made it no fun at all. I stuck it out for two years, longer than I should, and then retired in January this year. I wasn't making 7 figures but well into six figures. I had a big enough nest egg, a great spouse, health and fun hobbies. Oh, at work I was on call 24/7/365 running a large chemical complex. But I also did lobbying for my company which was social, easy, low stress and fun. So I walked away, right into a half time side gig representing large companies run by my friends in the business community on legislative and regulatory issues. It pays enough to make me feel useful, provides me a healthy expense report and keeps my brand alive with political and business leaders. Never on call, four day weekends almost every week. It's been a year and I'm so much happier than I've been in years. My advice, find a way to carve out that best 10% of your job and retire to do just that for others on a contract basis.

 

[LOL!]

• Habit/inertia (easiest to just keep doing what I have done for many years)
• Everyone else I know is working, and nearly nobody in my business retires early?
• An ingrained belief that a guy gets up in the morning and goes to an office?
• A fear that if things go really, really badly, we might not have enough money to live the lifestyle we want (even though Firecalc consistently shows no such scenarios)?
• Not wanting to retire while we still live in the suburbs and have a kid at home (a few more years) because I am not sure what I would spend my time doing?
• Some part of my identity is tied up in professional stature and achievement? (I would really like to think that is not the case, but I am trying to be honest with myself)
• Fear of the unknown?
• Some personal relationships within my organization (and nationally in the industry) that I like, and would probably lose after retirement
• At my current income, each additional year has significant economic value (but of course non-economic costs).

I went half-time about 10 years ago and full-time retired more than 2 years ago. When I look at your list, I see that some things don't apply to me and should not apply to you.

I still maintain personal relationships with several of my former colleagues. We have even gone on wilderness expeditions together, but more often, it is just meeting for lunch once or twice a month. You could do that.

As for professional stature, I am often requested to attend international meetings and give talks … all expenses paid and sometimes with a honorarium. I am also able to write reviews and publish at a pace that exceeds what I want to do, so no problems with "achievement." I turn down requests, too. You should be able to do all that. That is, you can do consulting which could be as simple as going to lunch and dinner and telling your hosts, "Yes, sounds good" or "No, I would not do that."

I had kids at home when I went part-time and two kids in college when I went full-time and I still live in the suburbs. You should be fine doing that while retired.

I still get up in the morning and go out the door, but it is to walk my dog. And lots of folks know my dog because he is a celebrity with his own stature and achievement. You can get a dog and become its talent agent.

Yes, lots of people I know are still working in their 70's, but they don't pester me about quitting work. I am sure some are quite envious. That could happen to you.

As for fear, I can't help you with that.

 

[W2R]

I don't know.... Why?

I hope it has nothing to do with feelings of self worth, as is the case for many. Developing confidence in one's own worth is a difficult process for some. Maybe not for you; I have no idea since I do not know you.

You seem to have led a hard working and productive life thus far. I assume you are not an evil monster with an arrest record a mile long. My conclusion is that you are indeed a worthy person who deserves to enjoy a few years of retirement before reaching the end of your life. You probably don't need to prove anything to anybody any more; it sounds like you have done that long ago. Now, you deserve to retire when you want to retire.

Hope that helps!

 

[Travelwanted]

Medved...i remember your prior posts.

Only you know what is best for you. But, perhaps I can share my situation and somehow it will make you think.

I'm 44 and now working PT by choice. I worked in a high stress environment and made a lot (7 figure like u). The internal politics and stress of the job I did started to burn-me-out.

Last year I sold out of my portion of the business and took some time off. I did some traveling, spent time with family etc. I even helped a friend do some handyman work.

I found I missed certain aspects of the work. The specific work itself mostly, the prestige (surprisingly - I never thought that mattered to me until I was no longer it) and of course the security of more income. Let's face it, having a job just feels secure and gives driven folks like us purpose that is easily measured.

We have significant assets - about $10m invested - plus a paid of house, cars etc. and our spending is about <150k/year. Point is, I don't really need to do this clearly. But, I have decided that, for now, I want to stay in the game, but just a little.

What works for me may not for you. But that is my approach and thus far has been good. Admittedly I don't know how much longer I will do it. Once I leave the game for about a year I won't be able to go back.

Perhaps you can slow down first...going from 100 to 0 is difficult for most.

 

[street]

It sounds like you explored if you can retire and sounds like you are able to. You are a young person yet but if you want to retire I would pick a day and a year and do it. If you like your job and work stay working.

I retired last April and it wasn't an easy decision but I kept telling myself you can't buy back time. I will never have more energy, be more healthy, be any younger and I have to money to FIRE.

For me I could stock pile another two years of money but really why? If you have what it takes to retire FIRE do it. I wish I would of let go a few years earlier now.

I also challenged myself some after retiring and took on a few jobs to be around people. I painted a barn which was a great experience and the hard work was very rewarding. It took my mind off of what I did for 35 years and made for an easier transition for me.

Good luck and you are the one to decide what is best for you.

 

[RobbieB]

The answer is obvious.

You are still working because you want to work.

When you don't want to work anymore you will know it.

 

[LRDave]

I don't know.... Why?

^^^^This^^^^

 

[Jerry1]

One thing I've seen pretty consistently. It kind of goes along with the what are you retiring TO comments. That is that I've known a number of people that said they didn't know what they'd do in retirement so they kept on working. Then, once they retired, they started doing other things and ended up being very busy (maybe not as busy as working full time, but busy). The point is that once you remove yourself from your current situation/environment, you'd be surprised what you'll do. Some people need to get away and get their head clear before other things start happening. Personally, I started working part time in 2016 and it's helped me start the process of figuring out what to do with my free time. I can tell you one thing, even though I have a good job, being away from it is better than being in it.

 

[pb4uski]

Change is hard.

I had a similar 24/7 on-call job but didn't make seven figures (actually I made eight..... if you omit the decimal point ). What it came down to for me is once we had "enough" (and realistically more than enough), continuing to work was just enriching Uncle Sam and our kids inheritance.

I decided that the time was better spent enjoying the rest of my life. It seemed that every time I read the obituaries there were people dying at or near my age... and you never know how many years you have left, so why not make sure to enjoy them if you can. I also had a couple friends about my age die of cancer and those were wake up calls.

Similar to you, it was very rare for someone in my position to retire early (56 in my case).. in fact, technically I just resigned since I didn't have the age and years of service necessary to qualify as a retiree... though I told them I was retiring and my boss/firm threw an nice retirement party for me.

I had not spent much time thinking about what I would do but have played a lot more golf and spent some time volunteering. I recall that when I was working asking my recently retired Dad how things were going and as part of his response he said "I'm so busy I'm not sure how I ever found time to work". At the time, I thought it was the lamest thing I had ever heard, but now I fully understand. You'll find things to do and enjoy... the world is your oyster.

I was pleasantly surprised that not near as much of my "identity" was tied to my title/stature/job as I thought there might be. While I enjoyed my colleagues and most of my clients and miss them, I don't miss working at all.

Anyhow, good luck!

 

[jollystomper]

Have to agree with those who say you (the OP) are working because you want to work.

I am in a similar situation, though not on call 24/7 anymore (but can be asked to travel long distances at the drop of a hat). I like to work because, bottom line, I enjoy it, and the salary in my view is great in relation for what I have to do.

However, I'm realizing more and more that the job and salary are growing less important, and the ability to spend whatever time I have left in a more flexible fashion is becoming important. And I have a growing list of interests outside of work that I want to spend more time on.

So I have really drawn a line in the sand to retire next year... which of course if left to my own devices can easily be erased. But DW, and sites like this, are playing important roles in helping me seeing the light.