United Airlines Roughed Up Passenger to Give Up His Seat

[Fedup]

This guy is a nuisance to other people in my point of view. He caused a scene and delay to other customers.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I think the doctor just got his early retirement pass.

I understand the doctor is 69 years old, so no early retirement. And he was knocked out in the struggle. It was horrible to watch the video. Resisting security makes no sense. Was he going to be separated from his wife? That's a really stupid thing to do. I think United would have had volunteers had it not been fully boarded already. That was their mistake. And I understand it was airport security, not Chicago PD. Chicago PD later took reports and issued a statement based on their interviews. They weren't there for the incident.

There maybe a lawsuit, but he won't likely win since he was violating federal law.

 

[pb4uski]

Something smells with this story. The bumps were to accommodate repositioning some United employees for the next day. There was another flight 3 1/2 hours later.... or it is a ~5 hour drive.

What I can't figure is if they were offering $80 each for 4 people why wouldn't people take it, rent a car and drive for 5 hours? Or better yet, why wouldn't United tell the employees to rent a car at company expense and drive?... its only 4 hours more than flying.

 

[easysurfer]

Was watching online a segment on a cable station asking will the passenger have a case for a lawsuit? Pretty much was a consensus, "Yep!". The show host pointed up, this really isn't a case of overbooking. Not as if there were too many customers but the airline wanted 4 more seats for the crew.

An analogy I can think if is as if you bought a ticket to go to a concert but folks at the venue needed a seat so security or a bouncer roughs you up and tosses you out after you don't agree to give up your seat for a price.

 

[pb4uski]

That is an interesting angle... IF the flight was really NOT overbooked were it not for the 4 United employees then I'm not sure if United can hide behind the overbooked flight regulations so the justification for removing the passenger from the plane goes away and pls United clearly in the wrong.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Rosa Parks was arrested for not giving up her seat, too. What is legal is not always what is fair. What she did was illegal at the time.

 

[redduck]

...They select the ones who paid the lowest fare and fly the least frequently. So if you fly the airline a lot and/or paid a higher fare you're least likely to get bumped.

Is this in the rule book or is it just a perk of flying first class?

 

[omni550]

Something smells with this story. The bumps were to accommodate repositioning some United employees for the next day. There was another flight 3 1/2 hours later.... or it is a ~5 hour drive.

What I can't figure is if they were offering $80 each for 4 people why wouldn't people take it, rent a car and drive for 5 hours? Or better yet, why wouldn't United tell the employees to rent a car at company expense and drive?... its only 4 hours more than flying.

Some people just don't think out of the box, or may not be up for a long drive.

Also, for the OPs who suggested that the crew drive to L'ville, perhaps the crew knew that United wouldn't reimburse them if they decided to drive.

--

A few years ago, due to weather delays en route, I and a few other passengers flying east from San Diego missed our connecting flight in Chicago (which was the last one that evening). We were flying Southwest and the connecting flight was also Southwest. Southworst would not delay their connecting flight 10 minutes for us, but that's another story.

I had befriended an oncology nurse on board who was a novice flier and freaked out by everything. I assured her that if we missed our connection, we'd get a rental car, drive the 3.5-4 hours to Detroit, pick up my car at the parking lot and then be on our way home. After checking with several rental car counters at O'Hare, the cheapest one-way rental to Detroit was something just shy of $400! By now it was nearing 11 pm and we were both getting tired. I asked the nurse if she might know someone in Chicago. Luckily, she then remembered that her well-to-do 27-year-old nephew lived in a million dollar condo in the heart of Chicago. She called him up, he drove over, took us home and said we'd have to find our own way back to the airport in the morning. So that's how I ended up sleeping in someone's swanky condo in Chicago that I'd never met before or since.

omni

 

[redduck]

First, if you have your lawyer on speed dial, and he will take your call immediately, at around 5:40 pm ON A SUNDAY, well.... even for a Doctor, this sounds unusual.

Lots of things sound unusual (such as myself), but what point are you trying to make other than it sounds "unusual?"

 

[tmm99]

Was watching online a segment on a cable station asking will the passenger have a case for a lawsuit? Pretty much was a consensus, "Yep!". The show host pointed up, this really isn't a case of overbooking. Not as if there were too many customers but the airline wanted 4 more seats for the crew.

An analogy I can think if is as if you bought a ticket to go to a concert but folks at the venue needed a seat so security or a bouncer roughs you up and tosses you out after you don't agree to give up your seat for a price.

Yep, after you have already seated with anticipation of enjoying the concert. Evidently the crew came late - after everybody was already boarded and said they needed to get on the flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[pb4uski]

.... Evidently the crew came late - after everybody was already boarded and said they needed to get on the flight. ...

IF that is the case then the crew and United are bad actors and while I
can't condone what the doc did, at the same time we would never know about the crew and United's abuse of the system if he had complied.

If that is what happened and I was United's CEO then that crew would be spending some time looking for work... as would the gate agents that let them get away with it. I hate cheaters.

 

[scrabbler1]

IF that is the case then the crew and United are bad actors and while I
can't condone what the doc did, at the same time we would never know about the crew and United's abuse of the system if he had complied.

If that is what happened and I was United's CEO then that crew would be spending some time looking for work... as would the gate agents that let them get away with it. I hate cheaters.

+100

 

[Hermit]

That's remarkably insulting and uncalled for. You owe me an apology.

I think not.

 

[rodi]

I think United handled this poorly. They should have upped the offer till they had volunteers. Or they should not have boarded the flight with the overage.

I was involuntarily bumped once. They airline had switched planes - and the new plane had a different configuration than the one that had been scheduled... Everyone in my row and the row in front of me was bumped because our rows didn't exist on the new plane. Fortunately, my flight was early enough in the day - they gave me a first class seat on the next nonstop flight PLUS two r/t continental US tickets. Ironically, I was flying on a free ticket I'd received from being voluntarily bumped on a previous vacation - and we'd gotten hotel, meal vouchers, and upgrades on that bump.

Since then it seems like the offers to be voluntarily bumped have been getting crappier and crappier. The last time I saw a request for volunteers they were only offering $200 of airline credit.... That's not enough to make it worthwhile - especially on a $300-400 ticket.

The argument that this was not an overbooking - since the passengers were being bumped for employees, not ticketed passengers, is interesting.

One little nit with some of the discussion on this thread. I don't think it was Chicago PD that removed the passenger... it was Chicago Department of Aviation security officers.

FWIW - the officer who removed the passenger has been suspended.
https://patch.com/illinois/chicago/united-airlines-drags-passenger-plane-ohare-airport

 

[growing_older]

The airlines offer was only 10% below the maximum they would spend for an involuntary bump. That explains why they did not go higher.

Which is to say that United was willing to call the police and escalate to possibly violent confrontation over $80.

Also, some reports were very clear that while the announcement was that passengers would be selected by computer, which was made to sound like they would be randomly selected, what actually happens is that the computer identifies the lowest fares paid, as the compensation owed is based on the fare paid.

Which is also something that I didn't know, when I do a good job of shopping for airfare, I don't just get a bargain set, I also get put at the top of this list for involuntary removal if they run out of seats.

Lastly, this was NOT an overbooking situation despite being reported that way. The flight was fully booked and fully loaded before 4 employees showed up demanding seats so they could work out of the destination city on Monday. They did not have bookings, nor tickets. The airline may have rules for removing passengers when it wants the seats for it's own employees, but they were deadhead employees, not overbooked passengers.

 

[Brat]

What all those 'rules' do not anticipate is that a passenger may not have the real or imagined flexibility with their travel arrangements. Not everyone is traveling with a full deck. [Even I, when returning from a business trip, broke out in tears when my flight had to make a stop in Spokane en route to Portland from the east coast because of weather. Exhaustion played a big role in my emotional response.]

I think United made a series of bad decisions and the airline owes the passenger, and the passengers who observed the incident, apologies. Passengers need to be treated humanely. Pulling out the rule book doesn't excuse the agent's actions.

United should make no excuses, just say this is not who we are and we will try to do better the next time and will work with the passenger to address his situation..

 

[Hermit]

To me the idea of the Captain ordering someone off the airline should be reserved for someone who is a danger to other passengers. This idea that the airline can just randomly pick people to kick off is what is wrong and it seems to me to be a misuse of a law originally intended for other purposes. This airline is using it as a convenience for their over booking shenanigans.

But what do I know. I gave up anything to do with airports and flying a while back. I don't like being treated like a cow and I don't properly moo.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lets be clear, it was NOT united employees who dragged this guy off the plane. It was airport POLICE. Put the blame for the rough handling where it belongs.

Yup. Reasonable cops would have gone back to the airline and said "this guy REALLY does not want to get off the plane, are you sure you want us to remove him at all costs ?" If they did and United say "go ahead", I suppose I can believe it, given the contempt that most airlines (and some big corporations, in general) have for their customers. But even so, it's hard to believe the UA employees involved could be bone stupid enough to have created this PR nightmare. I think it's more likely the cops were happy to rough someone up, because that's what the job is, for too many of them.

 

[RustyShackleford]

UA called them in and told them to remove the passenger. The cops did not have discretion on whether to follow the order or not.

Wow, the wording of this is very telling. A corporation ORDERED the cops to physically coerce one of their customers. Yep.

 

[tinlizzy]

They can "involuntarily" deny you boarding anytime they want to, it's in the C of C, in fact they pay less for that then they do a voluntary bump.The guy can say "No" all he wants to and it means nothing.I've known people that boarded and got put off the plane for weight and balance issues.

The random thing,perhaps they bumped the last ones to check-in, I've heard of that happening too.

They had already boarded everyone. C of C doesn't have language that covers this incident.

 

[razztazz]

That's remarkably insulting and uncalled for. You owe me an apology.

To sensitive. "owe". That's funny.

 

[bUU]

I don't really even know what your post means. But to clarify, I'm saying a lot of our laws originate in one way or another by industry lobbyists. So what is legal is not always what most people think would be fair from a consumer point of view.

Life isn't fair. That's no excuse for behaving in an antisocial manner and thinking yourself above the law. If you don't like the law then get it changed. If you cannot then accept it as your own failure. If you want to protest the unfairness then do so and peacefully comply with the authorities when they take you into custody. Protest is Noble because it involves a personal sacrifice. It isn't abject Self Indulgence.

To sensitive. "owe". That's funny.

Reliance on rudeness says as much about a point as anything, and calling out the rudeness underscores that. Or would you prefer to all discussions just be a back-and-forth trading of vapid mudslinging?

 

[bUU]

Yup. Reasonable cops would have gone back to the airline and said "this guy REALLY does not want to get off the plane, are you sure you want us to remove him at all costs ?"

Your argument fails in two ways. First, if all you had to do to avoid an involuntary bump was say no then who would ever accept an involuntary bump? The rules exist for reasons. They're baked into the pricing model and operational plans for not just the airline but for the industry as a whole. Second, what you're saying would be as if someone runs out of the Best Buy with a $200 television under his arm that he hadn't paid for and when the police try to take it from him he says no. He resists, he refuses. Effectively, you're saying that the police should let him steal it with impunity.

 

[Ronstar]

..... Second, what you're saying would be as if someone runs out of the Best Buy with a $200 television under his arm that he hadn't paid for and when the police try to take it from him he says no. He resists, he refuses. Effectively, you're saying that the police should let him steal it with impunity.

No stealing here. The guy paid for his airline ticket.

I understand that airlines need to overbook to maximize revenue, maybe break even in some cases. But it stuns me that a company can deny a customer a service that the customer has already paid for.

 

[marko]

I haven't read every post here but I did see three different videos on this.

Seems to me though when the cops come on the plane and say "Get up!" you get up and sort it out later. From what I saw, the guy refused to get up and get out of his seat.