Power of attorney not accepted

[Texas Proud]

OK, I have had a power of attorney for many years. I have read over the years about people having issues with banks etc. not honoring them. Today I went to my mom's safe deposit box to take out some of her savings bonds to cash in. I said I had a power of attorney. They said 'let me look it up'... well, we cannot cash them in with a power of attorney


So, now I have to either open a Treasury Direct account or haul my mom into a bank and hope they will cash them with the old ID that we have on her.... and not ask a bunch of questions....


A question for people with the Treasury Direct accounts.... anybody have them with somebody else that can direct what to do with the bonds? I do not want to get them all there and at some point and time have to call and try and get something fixed and they refuse.


Edit to add.... do I need to send in the paper bonds or can I just put the info in their system and they transfer them?

 

[audreyh1]

Not sure about most of your questions. But my understanding is that IDs that may have expired for drivers are still OK for identification purposes.

 

[FIREd]

A question for people with the Treasury Direct accounts.... anybody have them with somebody else that can direct what to do with the bonds? I do not want to get them all there and at some point and time have to call and try and get something fixed and they refuse.

In Treasury Direct, you can change the registration on the bonds to add a second owner or beneficiary.

How do I add a secondary owner or beneficiary to my securities?

Adding a secondary owner or beneficiary to securities registered in single ownership form is simple in TreasuryDirect. You can edit securities being held in Current Holdings; however, you cannot edit savings bonds held in your Gift Box. Securities in a Conversion Linked account (CLA) must first be transferred to a primary or another linked account in order to add a secondary owner.

Your electronic savings bonds and marketable securities may be registered in your name alone, your name with a secondary owner, or your name with a beneficiary. Each registrant's taxpayer identification number must be shown. Note: Registrations in entity accounts may not name a secondary owner or beneficiary. All securities in an entity account carry a registration identical to the entity account name.

To add a secondary owner or beneficiary to your securities registered in single ownership form:

Click the ManageDirect tab at the top of the page.
Under the heading Manage My Securities click "Edit" a registration.
On the Edit Security Registration page, choose the security type you want to edit and click "Select".
On the Summary page, choose the security or securities you wish to edit and click "Select" (you may edit up to 50 securities to the same registration).
On the Detail page, select the registration containing the secondary owner or beneficiary you desire from the drop-down box. (If you've never created the registration, you can do so by clicking "Add New Registration". Once you've created the new registration, the system will bring you back to the Detail page where you'll find the new registration listed in the drop-down box.) Note: Entity accounts may only have one registration. All securities in an entity account carry a registration identical to the entity account name.
Once you've selected the desired registration, click "Submit" to complete the change in registration for the security.

 

[Texas Proud]

Thanks for that info, but I do not want to change ownership of the bonds, all I want is to be able to be a secondary user of the account...


Right now when I try to do business with most firms they say I do not have authority to talk to them blah blah blah... I do not want this to happen with Treasury Direct and get locked out of the account...

 

[marko]

Power of Attorney should mean "Power of Attorney"...i.e. full authority. (with proper ID)

I'd get a real attorney involved and save a lot of hassle. Sometimes just a phone call or letter makes the difference.

 

[gerntz]

DW had same issue for her parents. Had lawyer who wrote up the P of A contact the bank. Suddenly, no issue.

 

[Texas Proud]

DW had same issue for her parents. Had lawyer who wrote up the P of A contact the bank. Suddenly, no issue.

This one was issued in 1999... not sure where the lawyer is... also do not want to get a lawyer involved if I can fix the problem with Treasury Direct...

 

[jimandthom]

With a POA of that age, most institutions are going to want at minimum a proper legal document that indicates that the POA is in full force and effect.


We had to do a similar thing with DH mom even tho her papers were only a couple of years old. The paper essentially stated that she was instructing her POA to act on her behalf.


Even that additional legal document had to be renewed for yearly, for her principle bank account as that was their rule.

 

[Lakewood90712]

Power of Attorney should mean "Power of Attorney"...i.e. full authority. (with proper ID)

I'd get a real attorney involved and save a lot of hassle. Sometimes just a phone call or letter makes the difference.

Ditto

 

[marko]

I think sometimes you walk into a bank/financial institution and end up getting in front of a junior person. They get confused and then you go down a rat-hole of false administration.

Happened to me at the SS office for my disabled brother. The young lady was trying to help but ended up having me needlessly fill out a dozen forms, 'fixing what wasn't broke', and coming back 4 times. Once that train started moving there was no turning back and it became a paperwork mess.

 

[Offgrid Organic Farmer]

Through most of my career, my wife had my P.O.A. I know she tried to use it many times. But I think that everytime she tried they always wanted to give her grief over it.

 

[meierlde]

It is not surprising that having the lawyer contact the bank made a difference. The lawyer used a different contact than you, one that had the power to make things happend. For example if the attorney wrote the general counsel of the bank, that is an office that can make things happen.

 

[street]

Power of Attorney should mean "Power of Attorney"...i.e. full authority. (with proper ID)

I'd get a real attorney involved and save a lot of hassle. Sometimes just a phone call or letter makes the difference.

This is good advise and I had NO issues when I had to use the POA for proof. Good Luck

 

[iloveyoga]

I have not found Treasury Direct easy to work with. I used it for my grandkid's bonds, and I wish I had just kept the cash in MM and paid them out when the time came. One granddaughter just turned 18 and we are still messing around with it.

 

[Texas Proud]

I have not found Treasury Direct easy to work with. I used it for my grandkid's bonds, and I wish I had just kept the cash in MM and paid them out when the time came. One granddaughter just turned 18 and we are still messing around with it.

My mom has a good amount of savings bonds and total value...



I took 4 of them from the safe deposit box... I am either going to try Treasury Direct OR just take mom up to the close branch and have her cash them... I do not want to get too many cashed but do want to get rid of the very low interest rate ones....


The ones with 4% minimum I will probably keep... then again, they are close to maturing and I have thought about passing them on to the POD people...

 

[iloveyoga]

If you can take your Mom to the bank it would be much easier. Based on my experiences with TD.

 

[athena53]

With a POA of that age, most institutions are going to want at minimum a proper legal document that indicates that the POA is in full force and effect.


We had to do a similar thing with DH mom even tho her papers were only a couple of years old. The paper essentially stated that she was instructing her POA to act on her behalf.

I'm not a lawyer and wanted to throw out a question: I assume most of these are revocable POAs. How can a bank ever know if the person granting it revoked it, even if the grantee shows up with the original document? I assume that they're filed in the County Recorder's office and that a revocation would be, too? In that case they can probably search the records on-line. I can see that they'd want to know that the POA is still in effect.

 

[kaneohe]

I'm not a lawyer and wanted to throw out a question: I assume most of these are revocable POAs. How can a bank ever know if the person granting it revoked it, even if the grantee shows up with the original document? I assume that they're filed in the County Recorder's office and that a revocation would be, too? In that case they can probably search the records on-line. I can see that they'd want to know that the POA is still in effect.

Good question........perhaps that's why I never have gotten a POA accepted.
The banks either wanted the POA on their own form, or, in the one case where they didn't, required an affidavit from the person creating the POA stating that the POA was valid.

 

[HGTVfan]

No advice about savings bonds.

But, I’d suggest talking with a lawyer about making a new power of attorney while your mom is still able to do so.

My mom passed away in November. I did not have to use her POA because it was a short illness. But when I made new legal documents for myself a few months ago my lawyer said good thing I did not have to use the old POA for mom (from 2009) because most banks would probably not accept it. It was only 1 1/2 pages. My new POA is about 15 pages with a lot of detail. The law changed ( at least here in Florida) around 2011 requiring more detail.

 

[MichaelB]

POA's do not need to be registered anywhere, and there is no way to determine that one has been revoked without contacting the empowering individual or attorney.

Depending on state law, banks are often liable for unauthorized withdrawals, which can happen with POA's. This leads them to insist customers use the bank's POA forms, which allows the bank to make certain the POA is bith legit and in force.

When a POA is prepared it's a good idea to confirm it's validity with financial institutions. This prevents issues down the road, when they can be more difficult to resolve.

 

[Luvdogs]

I haven't contacted TD in years. I still have them for my kids (now adults) bonds there.

But about ten years I ago logged on and it asked my security question which was something like "what country do you most want to visit.?" I didn't remember which one I had put (since I wanted to visit many of them).

So I called them, did not really give much info and she TOLD me my password!!

 

[ncbill]

POA's do not need to be registered anywhere, and there is no way to determine that one has been revoked without contacting the empowering individual or attorney.

Depending on state law, banks are often liable for unauthorized withdrawals, which can happen with POA's. This leads them to insist customers use the bank's POA forms, which allows the bank to make certain the POA is bith legit and in force.

When a POA is prepared it's a good idea to confirm it's validity with financial institutions. This prevents issues down the road, when they can be more difficult to resolve.

In my state they can be registered/certified with the county.

Which, here at least, probably makes them more palatable at whichever local bank, etc. I'm trying to use it.

 

[Texas Proud]

POA is not registered with anybody...


Not sure if a lawyer would allow my mom to sign a new one as she is in memory care... if you talk to her without knowing anything she is just fine, but cannot remember most of her vital info... I will go to the bank and ask if I can bring her in and get one signed in front of them....


Also, I am on her checking account so it is not out of the blue that I am doing something... and I told them I was depositing the funds in her account...

 

[MarshaSGreen]

There are different types of POA - some for financial, some for medical, many expire upon the death of the individual - you are right - getting the correct one signed prior to a person’s mental Capacity going south is critical to be able to act on their behalf. Also, if a relative had the correct POA signed but moved (say from FL back to TX like my mom), a state specific POA should be signed. With your name on the bank account,you will be able to access the funds when your Mom passes because you are basically seen as a co-owner if the funds so we When she is gone, you “own” them. So, even if the POA expires upon her death, you will be able to pay the expenses of the estate by having access to the funds. Unfortunately, many lower level or untrained bank employees do not know the differences between types of POA so you could have the correct one signed and notarized and they still might not accept it. Also, as you stated, no filing a signed POA in TX. Good luck - taking care of an aging parent is not easy on so many levels.

 

[Kwirk]

Is this a "durable" power of attorney? I don't know the specific law for your state but if this is not a durable power of attorney then it may be invalid if your mother no longer has capacity.