Fat Fire-ees - are you out there?

[Dtail]

IIRC when there was a spending poll, the % of spending over 100k might have been around 20%.
If so, I am still not sure you will still receive many detailed responses at this level.
We will personally be somewhere around the 100k level and only our first full year, so don't bring much to this table.

 

[corn18]

I wouldn't mind a few discussions on the mechanics and mental fortitude required to manage a fat FIRE. I am targeting $150k but the numbers show that $75k is enough and $100k is plenty. I want the extra $50k / year for peace of mind, travel adventures, gifting, charities and who knows what else. Not much into material stuff at this point, so it comes down to experiences and philanthropy (focused on pet rescue).

Right now the data show that we have enough for $100k. I am working another 3 years to get to $150k. Why not just retire now? I ask myself that every day.

 

[athena53]

I guess I qualify- not based on BMI, which is under 20%, but I spend a little over $100K/year all in (including taxes). I probably over-saved because I've always had a morbid fear of being old and poor. It also means, though, that plenty of my spending (mostly charity and travel) consists of categories I can cut back in a very bad market.

 

[NYEXPAT]

I am there if you count in local currency? Been retired 30+years, single,married,kids,no kids, burn rate is pretty constant!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Fat Fire, like Fat Tuesday. I like it. We’re nowhere near the Fat level but we’ve not had to deny ourselves anything in RE. Laissez les bon temps rouler!

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Laissez les bon temps rouler!

The Cars 1979

 

[exnavynuke]

My thoughts are:

Lean-FIRE = Can afford to RE, but with minimal or no luxuries.
FIRE = Can afford to RE and maintain a middle class lifestyle.
Fat-FIRE = Can afford to RE and spend lavishly relative to median income Americans.

I can afford Lean-FIRE, I'm aiming for the mid-to-upper end of FIRE though, so I'm still working. I'm not willing to work long enough to get to Fat-FIRE, but investment returns compared to spending in ER may make it possible.

 

[IMATERP]

I've considered Bariatric Surgery in the past, but having more spare time to exercise has allowed me to take off the weight that I was going to pay someone to remove.

Not really sure what this thread has to do with weight gain in ER.

I

 

[45th Birthday]

I kind of think of this not lean or fat relative to an arbitrary number, but relative to where you were before you FIREd. I would fit no matter what, though. The last five years before I FIREd, average spend was $295K. The last five years before now was $570K. These numbers do not include taxes, mortgage principal payments, and various house changes, which are very lumpy. Three of the last five years included two kids in college for one year and one kid for two years, so that skews the numbers a bit. FIRE was 12 years ago.

Fidelity RIP says spending could increase a third before we run out of money at the end of our plan under the worst scenario, but we don't plan to increase that much.

 

[Franklin]

I think that qualifies!

 

[calmloki]

45th Birthday: amused by your location. Treasure Coast?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

45th Birthday: amused by your location. Treasure Coast?

Atlantic Coast Florida. Pirates "Ahhhh Jim Lad"

https://www.visitflorida.com/en-us/florida-beaches/exploring-the-treasure-coast-in-florida.html

 

[Dash man]

I guess we qualify. We plan about $180k/year spending all in, but are not likely to reach that level most years. Calculators tell us we can spend a bit over $240/year, but that isn’t likely to happen. That doesn’t include two beach homes we’ve purchased the last few years, a condo in SE Florida and a house in New Jersey. The beach homes have reduced our travel some, but grandkids have resulted in more trips to Seattle. Unsubsidized health care costs will hurt monthly spending, but at least help reduce our taxes.

 

[38Chevy454]

Kind of interesting subject. I can see the concept, but defining a level seems hard since COL varies. What would be fat ER in one area may be at bottom of std ER in another. One key is the high percentage of discretionary, it seems that fat ER has strong correlation with a large amount of discretionary spending.


Another issue for many on here is that even with sufficient savings to be in the fat ER category, the lifetime LBYM and lifestyle are hard to change. So just like many people when asked feel they are in "middle class", the numbers might say they are actually higher. That personal perception is difficult to quantify factor.

 

[marko]

I'm confused by the designation.
I think fat or lean should be about how frugal one is.

The trouble with assigning "Fat" to a spending amount is that we've learned here that a SWR of $200K in Iowa would be very, very fat but in Manhattan would be lean indeed.

As an aside, I read something last week about "barista-fire" where people just quit their jobs and do Uber or work at *bux. People are starting to create divisions of FIRE!

 

[tb001]

I hear the term Fat Fire and frankly wonder what defines this? I know I am not the norm, but also know from reading various posts there are Fat Fire brethren out there on this site. While a "relative frugalist" at heart, I have been fortunate to make a nice living and pack away some dough in the process. Applying the same principles as most on this site, I plan for Fat Fire when I retire at the end of 2019. I will be going cold turkey, no DW income, no pensions, no grandma mailbox $$, just me and my investments. Will be 55 next year and hope to have kid 3 & 4 off the payroll. I am debating on keeping my remaining home debt in the low 3% range, but will probably pay it off just because I like the idea of zero debt. My planned RE burn right now is $300K/yr (inc taxes), but that includes a significant amount of discretionary. I also think my early years of RE will have the highest burn rate so most likely, my planned spend rate will not run into perpetuity, despite planning for a static + inflation spend. I am really curious as to how the Fat Fires have experienced their expenses after say 5 - 10 years, especially based on a higher burn rate? Are they still spending at the same level or do they hit a wall and find it's a good bit less.

Come on Fat Fires, I know you are out there!

I too would love to see responses from people who fit this profile. I'm curious how things actually play out in terms of spend over time for people in this group. I've seen a lot of comments about healthcare/dental costs and help around the house replacing some of the discretionary 'live it up' spend, but I'm not sure how that plays out at different spend levels.

We're still a few years out, but planning for significant spend, in part due to young kids. A lot of discretionary spend--easily about 30% by my estimates. In SHTF times, we could cut 50%.

 

[marko]

I too would love to see responses from people who fit this profile. I'm curious how things actually play out in terms of spend over time for people in this group. I've seen a lot of comments about healthcare/dental costs and help around the house replacing some of the discretionary 'live it up' spend, but I'm not sure how that plays out at different spend levels.

We're still a few years out, but planning for significant spend, in part due to young kids. A lot of discretionary spend--easily about 30% by my estimates. In SHTF times, we could cut 50%.

We went the other way. When I first REd 13 years ago we went very frugal and cut all kinds of things; even magazine subscriptions.
We slowly realized that the world wasn't coming to an end and that we had lots of unspent potential.
We also realized that our investment income was inching up close to the mid six figures that my original working income had been and our NW is at an all time high.

Since then, we've been able to carefully ramp up the spending to almost what my work spending was. DW and I both now drive luxury cars (again), kept our Fort Lauderdale house, boats, have reno'd our kitchen and returned to first class travel.
DW still has 5 years before Medicare ($18K right there) but I still wouldn't consider it 'fat spending' as the COL in Boston is quite high.
Having said that, if we were hit with a $100K 'surprise' expense, it wouldn't be pleasant but wouldn't slow down the flywheel much.

Of course, 13 years later we have 13 fewer years ahead of us but some recent and serious "life is short" lessons have also forced us to look life in the eye and open the spigot a bit more.

 

[dcoy]

I like the thread DawgMan. I fully intend to (partially) FatFire in 2 years (Full Fat in 10), spending over $200K/year. I live in a HCOL area, have 2 kids and a DW (does not work). Between hobbies, kids activities, going out and travel our expenses are high. When the kids finally move in 10 years, we fully intend to ramp up the travel big time so I do not plan on our expenses dipping below the $200K/year ever.

 

[Major Tom]

+1

I thought the thread was going to be about being overweight in ER.

My first reaction was that it had something to do with a conflagration involving grease in a restaurant, having spent a fair amount of time recently thinking about a dodgy-looking grease scrubber on the roof of a restaurant that my landlord owns.

 

[tb001]

We went the other way. When I first REd 13 years ago we went very frugal and cut all kinds of things; even magazine subscriptions.
We slowly realized that the world wasn't coming to an end and that we had lots of unspent potential.

Of course, 13 years later we have 13 fewer years ahead of us but some recent and serious "life is short" lessons have also forced us to look life in the eye and open the spigot a bit more.

This is exactly why I ask. I can easily see us doing the same thing initially, just out of an overabundance of caution. I don't want to be 10 years in and wish we'd done it differently. As long as we're not in a place we're concerned about running out, I'd much rather be more frugal on the back end, but it's psychologically scary to start with a high level of spend!

 

[DawgMan]

I like the thread DawgMan. I fully intend to (partially) FatFire in 2 years (Full Fat in 10), spending over $200K/year. I live in a HCOL area, have 2 kids and a DW (does not work). Between hobbies, kids activities, going out and travel our expenses are high. When the kids finally move in 10 years, we fully intend to ramp up the travel big time so I do not plan on our expenses dipping below the $200K/year ever.

Aside from the confusion from the title that I might be offering diet tips, I thought there was something to learn here from some of the retired fat cats... there's that fat word again!

I hear ya on COL comment. Let me try and add proper context. Regardless of COL, if you are planning on FatFire, chances are you are living somewhat like a fat cat prior to RE. In other words, the "creep" has settled in and you like the good stuff, and as a fat cat, you are now accustomed to a spend that includes some goodies in life that you would like to continue to enjoy in FatFire. After all, you worked hard, made some good dough, still lived below your means, saved/invested, but happen to want a perhaps more lavish lifestyle than some. You are now ready to launch...you have done the work, done the plan, think you will drive the new beamer every year, eat caviar, and travel the world. So my question is really after you live it up for a number of years, do many of the FatFires hit a wall in all that discretionary spending and see their spend go down significantly?

Hope that clears it up. Now go out there and lose some weight Fatty!!!

 

[corn18]

So my question is really after you live it up for a number of years, do many of the FatFires hit a wall in all that discretionary spending and see their spend go down significantly?

Hope that clears it up. Now go out there and lose some weight Fatty!!!

I like this question.

 

[RockDoctor]

FIREd at 43 back in 1999. Started low (but not lean); we're now baby Fat (>$100K but less than $200K). There's been some definite lifestyle creep in this household.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Our goal is to have a Fat Fire lifestyle on a less than fat budget. I get a kick out of bargain hunting and still saving money in retirement. We live well now so I don't see us really spending more anytime soon. We used to spend much more when we were working and were not any happier. We were actually less happy because we had to work.

 

[HI Bill]

I read an article yesterday, written by a young millenial 'finance writer' on Yahoo! Finance. It defined FAT FIRE as someone who's planning to bring in >$75K annually from their investments. LEAN FIRE was <$40K, and Barista Fires is <$30K, still working gig jobs. The writer clearly doesn't understand what the FI in FIRE means!