Comfortable or Wealthy?

[ncbill]

More HCOL, "rule of thumb", big city nonsense. Is there a definition of 1.4M? Investable assets vs. net worth, for example?

In many parts of the USA, 2 SS checks, paid off house and car(s), no debt and $600,000 of investable assets will produce a comfortable life style. Total net worth would be well under $1M. 1.4M of investable assets, using the same scenario, would be princely.

These writers need to take a month long trip, by car, across the US-avoiding any city of more than 1M people. It might just add common sense to their articles.

Close relative did the above nearly 25 years ago when they retired from their blue-collar job w/ a paid-off house, & investable assets closer to $60,000.

They've enjoyed life just fine since with their modest (but COLA'd) pension & nearly-free retiree healthcare.

 

[mystang52]

I define myself (and I think I've done so on some other threads) as being financially comfortable. My definition is based on having no realistic money worries, able to live my happy (which is not exotic) without financial concerns, able to give my grandkids money just for fun, etc.
And, although I could technically afford to do so, I (and more importantly DW) can't bring myself to buy that gorgeous $8500 bicycle I see in my local bike shop showroom. I guess I'd be wealthy when I can bring myself to buy it, without guilt or recriminations from DW!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Close relative did the above nearly 25 years ago when they retired from their blue-collar job w/ a paid-off house, & investable assets closer to $60,000.

They've enjoyed life just fine since with their modest (but COLA'd) pension & nearly-free retiree healthcare.

I don't remember his specifics, but I would guess that member "imoldernu" has numbers that are pretty close to this and he has mentioned VERY OFTEN how great his retirement has been.

We don't have a ton of investible assets, but the monthly pension from Uncle Sugar and very VERY cheap health insurance makes retirement pretty damn comfortable for me.

 

[Koogie]

I prefer being comfortably numb...

 

[travelover]

I also look at lack of pain or stress as "enjoyment". So, money available but not actually spent gives me a lot of stress avoidance, knowing I can deal with most any expense that pops up. That makes me happy.

 

[jjquantz]

Fun responses. I don't think about how I compare to others for "comfortable" and "wealthy". For me, comfortable means that I can do anything that I want. Wealthy would mean that I could do EVERYTHING that I want. There weren't going to be enough work years in my life to get to that definition of wealthy. But I think that I am pretty solidly at my definition of comfortable.

Of course, the phrase "anything I want" is going to be shaped by one's means and what is culturally available, but I hope you get my drift. My parents, on the other hand, were lucky to be able to "Do SOMETHING that I want" every now and then.

I think that these phrases have been mentioned here before, but I could be misremembering.

 

[Sojourner]

For me, comfortable means that I can do anything that I want. Wealthy would mean that I could do EVERYTHING that I want.

For me, being able to do everything that you want is the definition of "rich", not wealthy. Wealthy seems more limited and more technical in its common usage. I think I'd be considered wealthy by most people, considering my net worth, but I certainly can't do (or buy) everything that I want. I can afford to do most things that I'd reasonably like to do, though, as long as I do them infrequently and with some restraint. In order to move from "wealthy" to "rich", I feel like I'd need to be pulling in something like $30,000+ per month from my investments. Of course, according to that book referenced in an earlier post, I'd need $1 million/year in passive income to be truly "rich".

 

[jjquantz]

For me, being able to do everything that you want is the definition of "rich", not wealthy. Wealthy seems more limited and more technical in its common usage. I think I'd be considered wealthy by most people, considering my net worth, but I certainly can't do (or buy) everything that I want. I can afford to do most things that I'd reasonably like to do, though, as long as I do them infrequently and with some restraint. In order to move from "wealthy" to "rich", I feel like I'd need to be pulling in something like $30,000+ per month from my investments. Of course, according to that book referenced in an earlier post, I'd need $1 million/year in passive income to be truly "rich".

Interesting point about a "technical" definition. I'm just thinking for myself that there's a scale something like:

Doing "all right" - I don't feel any threats to my well-being, but I can't do very many things that I would "like" to do

Doing well - I can do some of the things I want

Comfortable - Able to do anything I want - although some of the big choices might foreclose the possibility of doing other things

Wealthy - Able to do everything I want, but maybe not all at once

Rich - Not having to think about the fiscal impact of doing things

Filthy Rich - Able to crush peasants under my financial thumb

Again, what you "want to do" is shaped by your culture and financial ability so this is a very fluid set of definitions

 

[Milton]

What you "want to do" is shaped by your culture and financial ability so this is a very fluid set of definitions

Agreed.

Per your definitions, anyone with few/modest wants is 'rich', or at least 'wealthy': even if they have have a very small income, all that matters is that the latter is sufficient to exceed those wants (and needs, natch). Which sounds plausible.

 

[Cut-Throat]

So true! I am from St Paul, hello neighbor.

Also from the Western Suburbs of Minneapolis !



I think all of us want to Spend a Million Dollars, but you should probably have a Million Dollars before you spend it. And a lot of these folks want to Spend it, BEFORE they have it, and often they do!

 

[HadEnuff]

Comfortably wealthy.

 

[brett]

I suspect one of the variable as to how one feels is their burn rate/spend rate vis a vis their resources.

Someone with $1M can feel very wealthy based on their upbringing and their spend. Someone with $3M may not if they indulge in a very expensive lifestyle.

It is all relative.

 

[Gumby]

Agreed.

Per your definitions, anyone with few/modest wants is 'rich', or at least 'wealthy': even if they have have a very small income, all that matters is that the latter is sufficient to exceed those wants (and needs, natch). Which sounds plausible.

The richest I have ever felt was the first day I walked into the grocery and bought anything that looked tasty, without knowing or caring how much it cost. That happened a long time ago. I have substantially more assets now, but I have never had that feeling since.

 

[Car-Guy]

By their definition I'm wealthy but I've never felt that way. Still don't. Comfortable, yes, wealthy no.

To me, 25m+ starts getting into the wealthy category.

 

[FireBug]

I've invested well. My attic is FULL of collectible "Beanie Babies". Put me down as wealthy.

 

[RobbieB]

Comfortably wealthy.

Yeah, me too!

 

[NW-Bound]

New survey updates the numbers: "To be financially comfortable in America today requires an average of $1.4 million, up from $1.2 million a year ago, according to the survey. The net worth needed to be “wealthy”? That’s an average $2.4 million, the same as last year in the online survey of 1,000 Americans between age 21 and 75."...

My net worth is more than $2.4M, but I only feel comfortable. Not sure what I would need to feel wealthy, but it has to be a lot more. When and if I get there, I will know.

 

[Oakster]

The richest I have ever felt was the first day I walked into the grocery and bought anything that looked tasty, without knowing or caring how much it cost. That happened a long time ago. I have substantially more assets now, but I have never had that feeling since.

I think mine started when I filled the car with gas every time I went to the pump, instead putting in $5, or $10. Really makes me remember when I see a young person paying for their gas with a $5 bill and a handful of change.

 

[FI_RElater]

....comfortable

we’ve got investable well over 2.4 plus paid off house plus pension..(and haven’t started SS, but could)... in a MCOL area... while above most in the area, we’re “comfortable” as it’s VERY unlikely that we’d drop down to the point where we’d have difficulties but also not likely that we’d “forget where we came from” and just start “blowing that dough”
Gumby: even now we still pay attention to costs, even though it’s probably not that important... but we remember the more “difficult**” days and habits are sometimes hard to break.

I really can’t agree, even in this area, that 2.4M NET WORTH gets you into “rich” territory, unless it’s from comments of people that really don’t know finances.
Agree that that’s likely the source of the OP citation; the later citation mentioning 25M+ for the entry into “rich” is probably more on par... certainly 50-100M gets you there.


** nibbling on __ a__cracker to keep your mind off your “less than optimal food intake” during “lunch”, meal being 1/2 packet of Ramen, part of a can of pilchards (half the cost of tuna) and a part of a head of lettuce...{that’s on a good day}
I suspect some of us remember that period well.

 

[Milton]

My net worth is more than $2.4M, but I only feel comfortable. Not sure what I would need to feel wealthy, but it has to be a lot more. When and if I get there, I will [-]know[/-] re-adjust the target and keep striving for more.

Fixed! Not aimed at you specifically; greed & ambition are a disease almost everyone suffers from.

Unrelated (?): an interesting chart.

 

[Gumby]

Gumby: even now we still pay attention to costs, even though it’s probably not that important... but we remember the more “difficult**” days and habits are sometimes hard to break.

We still shop at Aldi's for groceries, because we hate to waste money. We only go to Whole Foods once or twice a year because it is so outrageously expensive. But I must say that being able to pay for literally "anything" at the grocery (even at Whole Foods) is quite liberating. That was far from the case when I was young, so it has meant a lot to me as an adult.

 

[FI_RElater]

Gumby
agreed, it’s nice to not “need to” anymore either, we also could go and purchase anything, just don’t

{just cooked up some ribs - - and - - a smaller london broil ___ talk about profligate ___ but we’ll use the rest of each the next few days.... That didn’t happen “back in the day”, it was at best just finding the cheapest cut and cooking a portion while freezing the rest for later}

 

[NW-Bound]

Fixed! Not aimed at you specifically; greed & ambition are a disease almost everyone suffers from.

Unrelated (?): an interesting chart.

I wrote that I needed a lot more to feel wealthy. But that sense of wealth would not mean that I would be happier. I am happy right now, with what I have.

In fact, I often say I don't feel the need to blow any dough, because I do not desire much. But to have enough to really splurge, even if you do not care to, such as buying a jet or a yacht, now that's real wealth. I am just comfortable. I can buy a fancy car if I want to, but I don't care to have it. Lots of people have fancy cars. That's not wealthy.

 

[cyber888]

My brother spent $50,000 more on his old 1,100 sq.ft townhouse in California than my brand new 3,400 sq.ft all brick french home in North Carolina when we bought our homes a couple of years back. He’s ‘comfortable’ and other people say I’m wealthy for having a big 5 bedroom 4 bathroom house. But he paid more than me for a place to live.

 

[Perryinva]

And his townhouse probably has appreciated more too. It’s all about location and where you came from to put it in perspective. I don’t know the backgrounds of people here, but doesn’t sound like many were raised by rich wealthy families. Nor are many workaholic captains of industry where enough is never enough.

I know I’ve accumulated more wealth than I ever though I would, growing up, and even through my 30’s, yet it is far less than many of my truly wealthy frat brothers, that came from wel off college educated white collar families because their point of reference was much higher than my immigrant tee shirt collar hard labor up bringing. By the time I realized my path to success was still a lower path, it was too late. Plus I’m not sure I had that kind of mindset and aptitude.

But I can agree that a 1.4M net worth sure aint wealthy, but is at least financially stress free for the most part. If we don’t need it and it’s not on sale or a deal we don’t buy it, not including quality food. We hate waste. Still working at 60, my fixed income set point which has changed over years, is about $11k/mo, & is almost met.

We felt “rich” just 2 years ago when we bought our very first new car ordered the way we wanted it. It was only $29k, but somehow that felt richer than when I bought my 6 year old Carrera 11 years ago for $34k cash. (A relative bargain since the sticker just 29k mikes earlier was $100k). Still have and enjoy the 911, and it is worth may be $23k today, so a realtive bargain in ownership costs. The “new” car of course lost $7k value in 2 years. That still bothers us as a “waste”. Truly wealthy cares less about such waste.