Another wayward relative -- long story

[braumeister]

I know, the last thing you all need is another weird relative saga, but here goes.

My BIL is a very odd person. He has operated a one-man business for over 40 years, unsuccessfully.

He managed to make a small profit at first, thanks to the oversight of his wife, but after she died (nearly 30 years ago) he lost control. He is a hoarder, and much happier buying inventory than selling it. In fact, today he has probably three times the inventory he had when he was widowed. Most of it is poorly stored and deteriorating. He has two properties: the house he lives in and the nearby store. No savings at all.

We have been bailing him out for decades, by loaning him money to avoid foreclosures on one or the other property (he's very bad about paying his property taxes). He usually paid us back eventually, but there is still a big shortfall that we have written off.

About five years ago we had enough and told him the Bank of Braumeister was closed. We offered to help him by taking some of his inventory and selling it for him (all proceeds going to him) and offered several suggestions for getting his business back on track. His reaction was "I'm an expert in this business, you're not, so I'm not going to even listen to you."

The problem is that he values his inventory at many times what a reasonable person would pay for it.

Eventually, his house went to foreclosure auction and at the last minute he got a high interest loan from a local guy to pay it off, using the store as collateral.

He hasn't been able to keep up payments on that loan, and recently came to us for help again. Since he has no idea how he would be able to repay our help, we offered (once again) to sell some of his inventory for him and we got the same reaction -- absolutely not. As I said, he is a hoarder.

So he contacted us again, through his lawyer, with this message: "When I'm gone, please be sure to keep my inventory safe."

Obviously, emotional blackmail (threatening suicide?) that he has also used in the past. Even his lawyer has had enough of this (I could hear his eyes rolling over the phone as he relayed the message), and none of us believes he is actually capable of it.

Long story, and as this has been going on for decades I see no end to it apart from the obvious resolution that he loses his store and inventory. He leads a very simple life and could certainly survive on just his Social Security, so that's not a problem. But he could so easily do so much better by simply liquidating his inventory for what it will bring. Hard for me to understand his thinking, and I've talked extensively with both his own lawyer and others who know him. None of us is able to empathize.

Sorry for the very long story, but if anyone has a suggestion I'd be glad to hear it.

 

[gwraigty]

You can't help those who refuse to help themselves. Walk away.

 

[youbet]

Why have you made the choice to continue the relationship? Sometimes ya just gotta "let go." Been there, done that.

 

[aja8888]

If it were me, I would stay away from anything going forward. Whatever you could do, won't work for long and then the problem will repeat itself.

 

[ivinsfan]

BIL...I'm thinking DW brother or is that wrong...let him and his sister communicate and don't talk about money.. Maybe easier said then done. Let go of your end of the string

 

[razztazz]

I actually don't mind hearing these stories since I've been dealing with mein own. Misery loves company I guess. Most of my current dealings were posted recently on a similar thread.

Since this involves BIL, I'll throw in here that this is one thing that actually turfed my getting married a couple of times. Moochie parents in law. Moochie/needy/sad sack favorite sister/ brother, or grown kids from another marriage. I could see where this was going. Instead of having just one sad sack needy sibling I'd have an additional BIL/SIL/ etc etc on top of it all.

 

[Teacher Terry]

So sad but he can’t be helped.

 

[RobbieB]

What is the "inventory" anyway?

 

[W2R]

I agree with all of the prior posts on this thread.

Some people are just impossible to help (or perhaps they make themselves impossible to help, for whatever weird reasons).

When I encounter someone like that, I distance myself from them ASAP for self preservation purposes. I'm not rude or mean, just firm. I just don't deal with that type of BS emergency. I have enough to deal with, without playing those games.

 

[Chuckanut]

From what you have written he seems to want help but only on his terms.

Like any deal you can turn it down. Or make a counter offer.

Where is written that he gets to dictate the terms of the deal and you have to accept?

Unless he is the Godfather and makes you a deal you can't refuse.

 

[Mdlerth]

Have Warren Buffett drop in for a chat with the BIL

It sounds like BIL is not going to listen and therefore destined to fail. You can't live his life for him. I have a relative (also a hoarder) who will not get his act together despite repeated bailouts. Oh, well. He's hit bottom before and he will again.

But if you are game for one more option, consider having somebody else deliver the message about the true value of BIL's "inventory". He isn't going to pay attention to you; perhaps he has some intra-family rivalry playing out in his mind and he's reluctant to be shown up by his homebrewing brother-in-law.

However, if some credible-but-unrelated third party with no connection to you were to tell him his crap is worth half what he thinks it is and he'd be better off just cutting his losses and getting out, there is a very tiny probability that he could be coaxed into a good decision. It's a long-shot, but it's a shot nonetheless.

 

[bbbamI]

I don't know if this will change your BIL, but it might help you and your wife....

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/hoarding-disorder

 

[FreeBear]

Sounds like he's shaking you down for money since you've resisted successfully for 5 years. Perhaps he's hoping you'll continue to "enable" just like in the old days.



More importantly, what does DW think?? It's critical that both you and DW stay on the same page, especially with a tough love approach. Hopefully, DW sees what's going on and won't get suckered in.

 

[braumeister]

I guess it's good that I'm not missing anything -- he really is a hopeless case. All the opinions expressed here are very much in sync with our own (and DW is completely in agreement with me as well). Sad, but there it is.

Thanks for the support.

 

[ponyboy]

Is he still your BIL since your sister has passed 30 years ago?

The better question is...why are you still keeping in contact with him? You enabled his poor behavior for a long time. Stop all communication and never take his phone calls.

 

[EarlyBirdly]

^^^^^^ BINGO! We have a Winner! ^^^^^^


Enabling is so simple yet so widely misunderstood.

 

[braumeister]

To clarify: I'm talking about DW's brother, so he is still my BIL. And the good thing is that after repeatedly turning him down, he now communicates with us only through his lawyer (who is his longtime personal friend). Fortunately, the lawyer is a nice guy and perfectly reasonable. He understands our position and agrees with us, but he has to relay the messages. It's a very weird situation.

 

[ivinsfan]

Is he still your BIL since your sister has passed 30 years ago?

The better question is...why are you still keeping in contact with him? You enabled his poor behavior for a long time. Stop all communication and never take his phone calls.

This is what people struggle with, OK he is a family member. He has a mental health problem. Untreated which is his choice but still a problem. Obviously all talk about money needs to stop, but to never take his calls. He's not doing anything harmful to anybody but himself. I suggest the family member closest takes his calls says how are you? Isn't the weather great/terrible and when the subject turns to money say nice talking to you I have to go now. If he continues not contacting you except through his lawyer (how does he pay the guy BTW) so be it.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

Since your BIL only communicates with you through his lawyer/friend you don’t really have a relationship. He appears to be trying to exploit you & your wife. He seems to be unwilling or unable to change & will accept assistance only on his terms. Hoarding is a form of mental illness. The request for you to keep his “inventory “ safe looks like an attempt to manipulate you. Don’t fall for it. He’s unlikely to change & any assistance just delays an inevitable result that he alone is responsible.

 

[MichaelB]

To clarify: I'm talking about DW's brother, so he is still my BIL. And the good thing is that after repeatedly turning him down, he now communicates with us only through his lawyer (who is his longtime personal friend). Fortunately, the lawyer is a nice guy and perfectly reasonable. He understands our position and agrees with us, but he has to relay the messages. It's a very weird situation.

Yes, he is still your BIl. You are not alone in this, and the efforts you have made to help him are admirable. In situations with many common characteristics, after many years of fruitless effort (and time and money) we have chosen to make sure our relatives do not suffer from lack of food or shelter, but nothing else. Some people are just not wired correctly, and there is very little we can do to help them.

 

[Independent]

I actually don't mind hearing these stories since I've been dealing with mein own. Misery loves company I guess.

+1

I've got two of these, a BIL and a son. It's tragic in both cases. We've pretty much extracted ourselves from the first (his problem was his wife, and she got a divorce when we said we weren't sending any more money). The other continues.

 

[Chuckanut]

Your BIL is a perfect example of a "Crazy Maker". He has a problem. He somehow transfers the problem to you. If things go badly, it is your fault.

 

[brett]

If you have a hard wired phone, change the number, go unlisted.

Block his number(s) on your cell.

Keep your hands in your pocket.

It would be far easier for you to just do down to your local warf or river and throw a bucket full of money into the water. That way you would not have to hear his tales of woe.

 

[aja8888]

Seeing his lawyer is a personal friend, suggest that he step up up and help your BIL.

 

[Sunset]

OP - You BIL has certainly dug himself a deep hole, I know how you feel as I have a relative that is also a hopeless case.

It's so bizarre that he communicates via the lawyer, but at least that means you don't get too many phone calls

You are totally correct to have closed the bank.
When he loses the buildings, watch out for his wanting you to store his inventory, as that would be a terrible thing, since eventually he might accuse you of stealing some of it or damaging it, etc.