Asking about ethnicity?

[candrew]

So it does seem I was right, all recent posts by minorities have said ‘if someone comes up to them with genuine curiosity and asked them, it isn’t a big deal’

The anecdotes shared by several anonymous posters on this forum hardly warrants such certitude.

 

[ERD50]

Somewhat of a tangent, but related to this discussion (and maybe a bit lighter which might be good thing!). This popped up in my email, and I found it interesting. I did not know this:

https://www.quora.com/When-did-Americans-first-start-to-lose-their-British-accents

When did Americans first start to lose their British accents?

TLDR: Colonization of North America began before southern England had begun adoption of a non-rhotic dialect. Non-rhotic = “r” not pronounced, except in pre-vocalic positions. Americans don’t have that “accent” because there was no accent to have, at the time.

Tiny bit more detail: Actually, British folks spoke in a manner that would likely sound rather “American” to your ears during the 17th century colonization of the New World. We don’t have voice recordings prior to around 1860, but it’s likely the standard American accent has changed more subtly, and the standard British, rather more drastically, since since that period. ....

more at then link....


-ERD50

 

[W2R]

Somewhat of a tangent, but related to this discussion (and maybe a bit lighter which might be good thing!). This popped up in my email, and I found it interesting. I did not know this:

https://www.quora.com/When-did-Americans-first-start-to-lose-their-British-accents

When did Americans first start to lose their British accents?

TLDR: Colonization of North America began before southern England had begun adoption of a non-rhotic dialect. Non-rhotic = “r” not pronounced, except in pre-vocalic positions. Americans don’t have that “accent” because there was no accent to have, at the time.

Tiny bit more detail: Actually, British folks spoke in a manner that would likely sound rather “American” to your ears during the 17th century colonization of the New World. We don’t have voice recordings prior to around 1860, but it’s likely the standard American accent has changed more subtly, and the standard British, rather more drastically, since since that period. ....

more at then link....


-ERD50

Well maybe.... But when I think of my grandmother's very strong Ozarks hillbilly type accent, compared with the standard American accent we hear on TV, I do wonder if perhaps the vast size of our country and the relative isolation of certain small populations might have affected our accents as well.

An interesting but probably also unrelated bit of trivia: Despite what Hollywood might lead one to believe, native New Orleanians have an accent that is not stereotypically Southern, but instead almost identical to a Brooklyn accent although slower and slightly more melodic. When Frank was working in Connecticut just outside of NYC, he found that if he just spoke faster everyone assumed he was from Brooklyn.

 

[Nemo2]

...he found that if he just spoke faster everyone assumed he was from Brooklyn.

Born in England, lived in Australia, came to Canada in 1965 - around 1967/68 was in Philadelphia with another English born guy.......female bartender said to him "Where are you from?", then turned to me and said "You, you're from around here, but where's he from?"

 

[pj.mask]

Culture: The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

It would seem the “culture” is the best description for why you, raised where you were, feel it is rude to ask where someone is from and why others, raised where they were, do not feel it is rude. Insinuating that it is universally rude for anyone to ask (stating something *is* rude, not that you personally would find it rude) seems to indicate that your specific culture is the correct one. Unless you believe values are inherent in people and not related to where or who they grew up around?

As for “pregnant” women who could be fat, the best advice I got is to never ask a woman if they are pregnant and act surprised when they are holding a baby saying “I never knew”. I’m not sure what being pregnant has to do with asking where someone is from but the reason you don’t ask people if they are pregnant is because if they are not - they are so fat you thought they were. Now to be fair, Chinese people think it is a good thing to call people chubby (because you can afford food) but pregnancy also gets to fertility and a whole lot of other issues.



Candrew, my hypothesis was about the posters on this thread. What other data should I be looking at (outside of posts on this thread) for “certitude”?


Interesting note about accents - New Orleans and Brooklyn are similar because they were both port cities long ago.

 

[Gumby]

Culture: The ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

It would seem the “culture” is the best description for why you, raised where you were, feel it is rude to ask where someone is from and why others, raised where they were, do not feel it is rude. Insinuating that it is universally rude for anyone to ask (stating something *is* rude, not that you personally would find it rude) seems to indicate that your specific culture is the correct one. Unless you believe values are inherent in people and not related to where or who they grew up around?

As for “pregnant” women who could be fat, the best advice I got is to never ask a woman if they are pregnant and act surprised when they are holding a baby saying “I never knew”. I’m not sure what being pregnant has to do with asking where someone is from but the reason you don’t ask people if they are pregnant is because if they are not - they are so fat you thought they were. Now to be fair, Chinese people think it is a good thing to call people chubby (because you can afford food) but pregnancy also gets to fertility and a whole lot of other issues.



Candrew, my hypothesis was about the posters on this thread. What other data should I be looking at (outside of posts on this thread) for “certitude”?


Interesting note about accents - New Orleans and Brooklyn are similar because they were both port cities long ago.

It is probably wasting the time of others on this thread, but if you would like to unpack my comment (#72), I said that I personally would not ask, because it might make the person uncomfortable and my concept of good manners and gracious behavior is that I should try never to make people uncomfortable. I never stated nor, I think, insinuated that my position is or should be universal. It's just the way I prefer to go through life.

As far as culture goes, I think it was clear from my first post that I am an immigrant to the US. I was raised by parents from two different countries, although primarily by my mother. And she was as blunt as a human being could possibly be. Without blinking an eye, she would ask anyone about anything, personal or not, and she would always expect an answer. So, yes, my values are specific to me.

P.S. - You hit the nail on the head as far as the pregnant woman - "it gets into a whole lot of other issues." How can I know that asking someone their ethnicity or heritage will not "get into a whole lot of other issues"? Issues that I can't predict because I am not them.

 

[gerntz]

It's not fearful, but rather being respectful. That's how I was raised.

Inquiring is disrespectful? Sorry for your lost opportunities to interact more fully..

 

[pj.mask]

Gumby, don’t know who said it - hard to quote multiple posts on mobile so I just leave a new comment. Someone had said it is rude to ask - that post is no longer there (or edited to no longer say that) sorry if I accidentally attributed that to you.

 

[gerntz]

Well maybe.... But when I think of my grandmother's very strong Ozarks hillbilly type accent, compared with the standard American accent we hear on TV, I do wonder if perhaps the vast size of our country and the relative isolation of certain small populations might have affected our accents as well.

In spite of the differences in American English accents, they are more uniform than in England.

Read somewhere in the last few weeks that the American accent became fairly standardized early - meaning before there was a country - due to people at any one location being from so many different places and being highly mobile vs. other countries, that standardization was needed to be able to communicate even with the person next door. People in SC needed to talk to people in MA. It just happened. Sure there are regional differences but outside southern varieties & NYC & Boston they're not very noticeable.

On side note, a great aunt born in England Midlands in 1798 immigrated to Indiana in 1818 and became involved in a semi-notorious murder story there. A book written about the incident describes her as having a "broad English accent". So clearly the difference was readily noticed even by then.

 

[Gumby]

Gumby, don’t know who said it - hard to quote multiple posts on mobile so I just leave a new comment. Someone had said it is rude to ask - that post is no longer there (or edited to no longer say that) sorry if I accidentally attributed that to you.

No problem at all. I often can't remember who said what in a long thread, especially when I'm reading on the phone. And I must admit that my own writing is not always a model of clarity, so sometimes what I meant to say doesn't quite come across as I imagined it would when I wrote it.

 

[kcowan]

My ethnic experiences:
In 1963, I was visiting the Space Needle and chatted with the guard. He asked if I was from Glasgow. He was from Edinborough. I was born and raised in Toronto, but my Dad and his brothers and sisters all had strong accents from Glasgow.

I had a VP of business development who is Canadian but was born as a Chinese Malaysian. His kids are both born in Canada and the Malaysians call them bananas (yellow in the outside, white on the inside). They have found backlash from whites because of the new immigrants from HK and now Mainland China in Vancouver.

I spend 7 months a year in Mexico and natives often ask me where I am from. I say Alta Vista, a neighborhood of Puerto Vallarta. Any other answer is too complicated. My ethnicity is Scottish. Born in Toronto. Living 4 months a year in Vancouver. Owned in Mexico for 12 years.

 

[Letj]

Your observation is interesting.



I definitely don't like strangers asking me personal questions, but it never occurred to me that this is only because I am Caucasian.

Actually that might be true. I have travelled extensively and what I’ve noticed is that people outside the US and Western Europe are much more open, friendly and willing to talk to strangers. They are curious and would have no problem asking you where you are from and other things about you they may be curious about. Americans, in particularly, tend to be a bit more guarded and have more boundaries from my experience.

 

[Nemo2]

~16 years ago, cycling on the trails in Toronto, and had a puncture.

Knew there was a bike store nearby and started pushing the bike.....joined by a young black kid, around 17 years old, on his way to school.

Noticed his accent, asked where he was from. "From Kenya." "Kikuyu?" I asked, (pretty safe bet, he didn't look like a Maasai).....he was, and appeared very pleased at the recognition.

We walked and talked for a while and then went our separate ways.

Just one more of my boring stories.......but have never had anyone say "What's it to you?" either verbally or non-verbally.

Then again it's never my opening gambit, as I always establish even a loose connection beforehand.

 

[Ronstar]

I’m a white male from northern Illinois who hardly ever gets asked where I’m from. Never when I’m in my home stomping grounds. I sometimes do when I’m in Arizona. I did when I was in England and Ireland, and just recently in Canada and the UP of Michigan. A waitress in the UP was surprised that I was from Illinois. She said I looked like a local. Not sure what she meant by that.

 

[joeea]

When I was a kid, people would try to pronounce my last name and ask if I was Italian.
I always replied that No, I was an American.

 

[Major Tom]

My bad. I kind of skimmed through the OP's first post, and I answered based on the accent piece he mentioned.

One time, at work, an Indian contractor came and I was stunned to see his features - He had grey eyes!! With his tanned skin, he looked absolutely stunning, so I can kind of see the OP's fascination with some people's unique physical features. I can imagine myself asking this contractor guy (if I wasn't in a work setting), "you look so exotic, where are you from?"

I understand that you're white, and you emphasize with some of your non-white friends who were mistreated and we all should. At the same time, there are plenty of us folks who enjoy and embrace diversity. I am/look Asian and everyone notices I am, and like I said, strangers have come up to me (without me speaking; hence they don't know I have an accent) and have asked me if I'm Chinese or Korean, or Japanese. (Always a white man asking. Never a woman.) They are just curious. For whatever reason. And I consider that OK. And undoubtedly, some Asian people probably do not enjoy being asked. One Indian friend of mine was born in Canada, but just because of the way she looks, a guy at the party we were at started talking to her about how much he enjoyed his trip to India. Things like that happen all the time IMO. I don't worry about it.

But I understand your point and everyone else's point. It's better to be on the safe side.

Thank you for understanding my point of view, and I do see yours as well. It's a complex subject. I don't think I will be commenting in this thread any longer, as it's becoming a bit scattered, but I wanted to acknowledge, and thank you, for your response.

 

[Amethyst]

This is true of almost everybody, and is the real reason society needs editors. (Not because somebody wrote "your" instead of "you're.")

For a fact, I usually find your posts to be quite clear.

And I must admit that my own writing is not always a model of clarity, so sometimes what I meant to say doesn't quite come across as I imagined it would when I wrote it.

 

[Amethyst]

Not to quibble, but you seem to be describing cultural, not necessarily racial/ethnic, differences. There are, after all, a lot of non-white Americans and western Europeans.

And I think there's a significant difference between asking "Where are you from?" (which Americans ask each other all the time, meaning which state or region)** and "What's your ethnicity? Why do you have blue eyes with brown skin?" and similar inquiries that have been mentioned.

**Even Europeans ask me where I'm from. When I say "The United States," they say, "Oh, I knew that. I meant what state?"

Actually that might be true. I have travelled extensively and what I’ve noticed is that people outside the US and Western Europe are much more open, friendly and willing to talk to strangers. They are curious and would have no problem asking you where you are from and other things about you they may be curious about. Americans, in particularly, tend to be a bit more guarded and have more boundaries from my experience.

 

[Major Tom]

Not to quibble, but you seem to be describing cultural, not necessarily racial/ethnic, differences. There are, after all, a lot of non-white Americans and western Europeans.

And I think there's a significant difference between asking "Where are you from?" (which Americans ask each other all the time, meaning which state or region)** and "What's your ethnicity? Why do you have blue eyes with brown skin?" and similar inquiries that have been mentioned.

Thank you for bringing this up. I think, without going back through the thread, that one or two others may have touched on this, but you have expressed it clearly. Based on some of the posts in this thread, I'm not sure that everyone is making the distinction. I see the OP asking whether it's appropriate to ask someone where she's from based on the color of her skin, and some folk replying that they comment on people's accents all the time

 

[Nemo2]

I see the OP asking whether it's appropriate to ask someone where she's from based on the color of her skin, and some folk replying that they comment on people's accents all the time

There's often a connection between the two.

 

[Chuckanut]

Where are from? Talk to a citizen of New Mexico and you will get some interesting stories.

TOUGH PILL TO SWALLOW
While staying in upstate New York, Rio Rancho resident Dick Blinzler tried to get a prescription refilled at Walmart but was surprised when the pharmacist told him she couldn’t refill orders from out of the country. A gentle correction that both he and the prescription were from the United States wasn’t enough, Blinzler says. “She had to call a co-worker over to verify New Mexico was really a state.”

https://www.newmexico.org/nmmagazine/heart-of-nm/one-of-our-50-is-missing/

 

[jazz4cash]

"I can't help but notice your gorgeous skin. [It's such an amazing color/so even-toned, etc.] I'm curious, what's your background... ethnicity? and/or Where are you from?" has worked for me.

omni

No!!!!

 

[Taxman59]

I often comment on someone's name. I say, I am a family historian and haven't seen that name before. I often get interesting answers, but never a negative response.

 

[target2019]

Many of the thoughts in the thread, if spoken to a stranger...well I can't say for sure.

If a friend says, "Yeah, I don't mind," that may or may not be true. In any event, I would not use friend's "Ok" as a ticket into anothers private life.

 

[Amethyst]

One's name is a bit different from one's other personal attributes. Most people love to discuss their family name, tell you the derivation, correct pronunciation etc. I could give quite a dissertation on my maiden name, which, although it is short, nobody could pronounce or spell correctly.

I have heard of people being subjected to open disdain because their name reminded people of some unpopular famous person. If I met a person with such a name, I would assume their nerves are already raw on the topic, and would talk about pretty much anything except their name!

I often comment on someone's name. I say, I am a family historian and haven't seen that name before. I often get interesting answers, but never a negative response.