The Obesity Era?

[mpeirce]

I don’t get the hate on carbs. I eat a lot of them, especially on run days.

For some of us, carbs drive cravings and make it harder not to over eat.

 

[HFWR]

I don’t get the hate on carbs.

Several things, deserved or not:

- Increased blood glucose levels, possibly leading to insulin resistance, diabetes, etc.

- In combination with salt or sugar, carbs can lead to addictive, binge eating;

- Grains, in particular, are not particularly nutrient-dense (thus “fortified”);

- “Complex carbs” are easily-digestible sugar with a bit of fiber;

- Most folks’ activity levels are too low to need “carbo loading”;

- In my personal experience, a salad or baked potato sans all the “fixins” is not all that appealing, leading to lots of extra calories from the added dressing, butter, sour cream, cheese, etc.

 

[aja8888]

I don’t get the hate on carbs. I eat a lot of them, especially on run days.

Yea, me too back in the day when I was running 100 miles per week and training for the Boston. Not now though, with my left hip implant and soon-to-be right hip implant (and a sore knee) @ 76 years old, I don't "load up" on carbs these days.

 

[Amethyst]

See, we are all different. I hate salad dressing, sour cream and butter, basically any greasy stuff; and have since I was a little kid who didn't know from a calorie. And I love the taste of a "bare" baked potato, and even more of a sweet potato.

Increased insulin resistance can happen to anybody, though, with age and heredity. So it's best to watch the starches and sweets even if you are thin.

 

[pj.mask]

I almost never carb load (large intake) but still don’t see an issue with it. As my senior friend always says: ‘everything is fine in moderation’. I made some awesome cookies yesterday and half the dough went straight to the freezer.

Some of the things people eat - like cereal - are junk. But eating some nice dark whole grain and nut bread? 1-2 slices with butter and jam aren’t going to kill you.

About the only thing we eat from a box is a baking mix every couple months. Apart from a few Trader Joe’s meals here and there, we only get fresh/local premise food.

You can do it yourself with time or pay a decent amount to have it done for you - but eating fresh whole foods would probably eliminate most of the countries problems.

 

[steelyman]

See, we are all different. I hate salad dressing, sour cream and butter, basically any greasy stuff; and have since I was a little kid who didn't know from a calorie. And I love the taste of a "bare" baked potato, and even more of a sweet potato.

Increased insulin resistance can happen to anybody, though, with age and heredity. So it's best to watch the starches and sweets even if you are thin.

That’s sound advice (about resistance so I’m with you on that although I love sour cream). I’m flirting with the resistance problem though and am slim.

 

[aja8888]

Got my lab result for my Pre-Op physical today and my A1C is 5.2, which I believe is good. I guess I shouldn't worry much about type II diabetes at this moment.

Weight is down 20 pounds from a year ago and I have 20 more to go to reach an old "normal" weight (non-runner weight of 180). My running weight was 149 + or - 2 pounds, but that was a long time ago. I was 5'11" at that time.

Losing the 20 pounds since last January has been accomplished through just a reduction in junk food consumption and an average of 10,000 walking steps per day (even with the bum hip (ouch)). My guess is that caloric intake has been the same over the 12 month period, it's just been less carbs and more protein. None of this has been heavily documented by me.

I could do better with carb reduction though.

 

[harley]

Some of the things people eat - like cereal - are junk. But eating some nice dark whole grain and nut bread? 1-2 slices with butter and jam aren’t going to kill you.

You do realize that there are approximately the same amount of calories and carbs in your sandwich as there are in a bowl of Coco Puffs? CICO? And both will help kill you if you're diabetic.

 

[someguy]

Based on that, 1900-2000 cal/day makes sense. But that's not "As a 62 yr old woman, 133 lbs. 5'4", at rest I burn 1923 calories." You're actively burning an average of 700/day above your resting/baseline of ~1200.

I'm intensely/moderate (?) active according to the definition in this article. I walk a lot, pull 190 lb. labrador with me, 7 days/week. Work out in the forest preserves as my hobby, constantly moving out there, 3-4 days/week. Plus treading water at high level for an hour.

TDEE calculator shows "heavy exercise level" at 6-7 days/week. Bottom line, one burns most calories at rest. If you work out strenuously, your hunger level goes up and you eat more.
I see lots of construction workers standing around, operating machines that they sit at. Sure if you're jack hammering 6 hours/day, that's intense. It depends what you do on a regular basis.

 

[slowsaver]

In the old days, I think more things were sweetened with plain sugar. Now more things are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup -- maybe the same thing has happened to dog food.

The only reason I think it might be relevant is due to some articles I've seen about how the body processes sucrose vs fructose, like this one: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sucrose-glucose-fructose#absorption-and-use2 quote:

"Several studies have demonstrated the harmful effects of high fructose consumption. These include insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, obesity, fatty liver disease and metabolic syndrome. In one 10-week study, people who drank fructose-sweetened beverages had an 8.6% increase in belly fat, compared to 4.8% in those who drank glucose-sweetened drinks."

I realize a lot of people debate that a calorie is a calorie (sugar OR hfcs), but not everyone believes that.

 

[audreyh1]

I almost never carb load (large intake) but still don’t see an issue with it. As my senior friend always says: ‘everything is fine in moderation’. I made some awesome cookies yesterday and half the dough went straight to the freezer.

Some of the things people eat - like cereal - are junk. But eating some nice dark whole grain and nut bread? 1-2 slices with butter and jam aren’t going to kill you.

About the only thing we eat from a box is a baking mix every couple months. Apart from a few Trader Joe’s meals here and there, we only get fresh/local premise food.

You can do it yourself with time or pay a decent amount to have it done for you - but eating fresh whole foods would probably eliminate most of the countries problems.

No, “everything in moderation” is not fine if you have metabolic problems. A lot of people don’t get this.

And “everything in moderation” is a panacea which is useless. When you get down to any details what one person thinks is healthy eating will likely be very different from another person and still a far cry from what is truly healthy. Govt and medical dietary guidelines are just as bad pushing approaches that are harmful for many people, especially those already diagnoswith chronic diseases that are the result of diet.

A lot of people throw “whole grains” in with healthy whole foods but they are not a good dietary choice for many people struggling with weight and metabolic problems.

All adults don’t need dairy either. It really depends on their digestive issues.

 

[audreyh1]

In the old days, I think more things were sweetened with plain sugar. Now more things are sweetened with high fructose corn syrup -- maybe the same thing has happened to dog food.

The only reason I think it might be relevant is due to some articles I've seen about how the body processes sucrose vs fructose, like this one: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sucrose-glucose-fructose#absorption-and-use2 quote:

"Several studies have demonstrated the harmful effects of high fructose consumption. These include insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes, obesity, fatty liver disease and metabolic syndrome. In one 10-week study, people who drank fructose-sweetened beverages had an 8.6% increase in belly fat, compared to 4.8% in those who drank glucose-sweetened drinks."

I realize a lot of people debate that a calorie is a calorie (sugar OR hfcs), but not everyone believes that.

I really wonder if in the old days things were as sweet as today.

But I also notice a massive number of calories consumed in liquid form today that wasn’t common decades ago. Big Gulp type calories.

So that’s two things I suspect. Since sugar - sucrose - is half fructose, I suspect it’s just as bad as “high fructose” corn syrup which is only slightly higher in fructose.

 

[inkitnow]

Outdoor vs Indoor

For those who claim their outdoor cats are thinner than their indoor cats...

Think about this: The average lifespan of an indoor cat is 18 years. The average lifespan of an outdoor cat is 8 years.

If you want to keep your pets healthy and give them a long life, keep them inside, feed them a balanced diet and take them to the vet once a year.

 

[audreyh1]

Indoor cats are also a lot easier on the local wild bird population.

 

[6miths]

Indoor cats are also a lot easier on the local wild bird population.

+1
There should be no free roaming 'outdoor' cats. Very, very efficient predators who seemingly, like man, frequently hunt just for the kill.

 

[mvoo]

Sorry, but this article is hogwash

Unfortunately, lab and domestic animals are fed the same crap that most people in the west are eating. Take a look at the label of ingredients in the typical “lab chow” or commercial dog/cat food. High in grains, and/or vegetable (like soy products). Dogs are carnivores...but this isn’t reflected in what’s in the standard product. Mouse chow in labs (as well as monkey chow,who are ay least NOT carnivores) is loaded with various forms of sugar and or other non-natural components.
Not unlike what us humans have also been told is “healthy.” Where the “personal responsibility” comes into play is to (unfortunately) not srely on the government, or other institutions you’d otherwise like to trust, for nutritional advice. Follow the money..

 

[Nemo2]

. Dogs are carnivores..

Omnivores, I believe.

 

[audreyh1]

Omnivores, I believe.

That is debated.

 

[braumeister]

Dogs are certainly carnivores, just not obligate carnivores. IOW, they are optimized for meat, but can also easily digest most carbs.

 

[6miths]

Since sugar - sucrose - is half fructose, I suspect it’s just as bad as “high fructose” corn syrup which is only slightly higher in fructose.

I think this is akin to the frog in the pot of water that is brought to a slow boil. The human diet was once low in all kinds of carbohydrates, then when we started to farm (10,000 years ago?) it became much more rich in carbohydrates (starch - a form of glucose) but still very low in simple carbohydrates, then simple carbohydrates (sucrose - glucose/fructose dimer) started to become more affordable (around 500 years ago) and really took off in the last 200 years, and now finally HFCS.

Refined sugar consumption in US was about 5 pounds per person annually in 1800, 45 pounds in 1900 and 105 pounds in 2000. It is possible that it has started to decrease recently but the apparent decrease may be due to changes in the way the statistics are reported. Look at labels - just pulled the BBQ sauce out of fridge - 4 of top 8 ingredients are sugar sweeteners - the other 4 are water, tomato paste, vinegar and salt. Glucose-fructose is listed as the most abundant ingredient.

The process to make HFCS from corn is chemically very complicated and requires many enzymatic steps. The starch from corn must be broken down to glucose and that is then converted to fructose. Fascinatingly HFCS 42 is actually only 42% fructose so less fructose than is in sucrose. HFCS 55 and 65 that are used in soft drinks and other applications obviously have increasing amounts of fructose.

From an industrial point of view fructose and HFCS is great. Handles better and fructose is sweeter than sucrose or glucose so can use less. And of course we can grow corn on a massive scale right here at home. Sweet! From a human biochemistry point of view fructose is potentially a disaster.

The story of sugar is fascinating and I suspect one day will turn out to be one of our biggest blunders. I just ordered John Yudkin's book 'Pure, White and Deadly' (1972) because I wanted to have a copy of my own. DS found me an old beaten up copy in the university's science library a few years ago but of course it had to go back. Needless to say that Yudkin and those like him that were ringing the alarm bells on sugar lost the battle against Sugar and the anti-fat advocates.

So my point actually was that to say that HFCS 'is just as bad as' sucrose is somewhat true but the emphasis should probably be on how terrible for the population's health current consumption levels of both are. So yes I agree, BAD! Likely really, really BAD! Of course, I may be totally wrong.

 

[Nemo2]

Dogs are certainly carnivores, just not obligate carnivores. IOW, they are optimized for meat, but can also easily digest most carbs.

Indeed:

https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshel...at,would be considered facultative carnivores.

Facultative carnivores are those that also eat non-animal food in addition to animal food. Note that there is no clear line that differentiates facultative carnivores from omnivores; dogs would be considered facultative carnivores.

"You say tomato I say potato."

 

[audreyh1]

Liquid calories - not just the Big Gulp type sugary excess, but people are encouraged to drink plenty of fruit juice because it’s “healthy”. Well it’s not. Those nice vitamins come with a huge dose of sugar. Eat the whole fruit, don’t drink the juice.

 

[braumeister]

Indeed:

https://bio.libretexts.org/Bookshel...at,would be considered facultative carnivores.



"You say tomato I say potato."

I certainly don't want to split hairs, so I'll let you have the last word, but dogs are in the order Carnivora, which is why I called them carnivores.

Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat meat, while dogs can eat other things so they can also be called omnivores. But there is no taxonomic order called Omnivora. Cats and dogs are both in Carnivora, although in different suborders.

 

[Chuckanut]

Liquid calories - not just the Big Gulp type sugary excess, but people are encouraged to drink plenty of fruit juice because it’s “healthy”. Well it’s not. Those nice vitamins come with a huge dose of sugar. Eat the whole fruit, don’t drink the juice.

Don't drink your calories is excellent advice, IMHO.

Other than wine, beer and sometimes milk, I follow it very well.

 

[pj.mask]

I agree with CICO and don’t have a problem with that but that isn’t the whole story. I recall a study on lab rats where the anti fungicide used on premade/frozen food/pizza cause weight gain/lethargy over same diet without it. That chemical is still widely used.

I do go for whole/minimally processed foods where possible. Maybe same calories in cereal (important) but who knows what else they put in there.

And yes, everything in moderation is a great idea. You should know what is healthy for you and use that as your metric. A body builder will have different protein needs than an sedentary computer person but both can overeat on proteins, but each would be overeating at a different amount.

Just like moderation of carbs for me would be different than for a diabetic. You have to go by the actual definition of the word - not just what is convenient.