The problem with thinking you know more than the experts

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REWahoo

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None of this going on around here about Covid-19 of course...

More and more, people don't care about expert views. That's according to Tom Nichols, author of "The Death of Expertise," who says Americans have become insufferable know-it-alls, locked in constant conflict and debate with others over topics they actually know almost nothing about.

The problem with thinking you know more than the experts

This short PBS article/video makes some good points on how we got here and why we need to start accepting the limitations of our own knowledge.
 
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I'd guess this is closely related to the widespread dissatisfaction and distrust with the mainstream media. The media likes to portray themselves as experts and quote experts, so I am sure the latter are tarred with the same brush.
 
This whole internet thing has enabled many people to be able to search out or validate information on their own. So not as much need to rely on experts. This is especially true for many scientific subjects where there are opposing views. Unless it falls under the laws of physics, you have experts that disagree.
 
Yes, you have experts who disagree with other experts. Then you have my experts that prefer my view. They’re way better than your experts who prefer your view. Then you have the fringe experts who leave everybody scratching their heads or pissed off.

In all cases, it’s a great opportunity to argue. And the problem is solved. And everyone feels good and comes together. Not.

Beats me how we (America) can take a thing like Covid and turn it into a partisan fight on all fronts. Even regarding starting the reopen versus staying hunkered down is somehow a highly charged partisan thing. You either want to open up and irresponsibly kill all grannies, or you think everyone has to stay under lock and key with gestapo over-watchers ensuring enforcement. There can be no middle ground. Yes, I’m exaggerating for effect. But that’s not unlike how the conversations/arguments go.

It’s not good. (Hope I’ve not pissed anyone off in the writing of this little diatribe). Peace.
 
I have relatives long in the tooth still debating the Great Depression and what FDR really should have done.

Me. I am twist my arm serious that never should they have nixed 'Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?

heh heh heh - hopefully I/We shall survive this and get to read the after action debriefings/books and the movie. :cool:
 
I'd guess this is closely related to the widespread dissatisfaction and distrust with the mainstream media. The media likes to portray themselves as experts and quote experts, so I am sure the latter are tarred with the same brush.

I wouldn't lay the blame itself on media but they are among those presenting themselves as experts or seek to be taken as expert. The problem I see is practitioners in all fields keep pimping themselves, yes often via the media, as the know-it-alls. Credentialism. It's a business model. Not just for money but simply to solidify their credibility whether they are credible or not or create an impression of credibility where there was none. It's an aspiration or pretense to "mystic authority via credentials." Like sex in prison. Has less to do with sex and everything to do with power and status.

Most experts in my experience only know far far less than what it takes to be an expert. But they drill that percentage all the time. And they don't like to swear to anything unless, they know they can get away with it. The authority/expert pimping we see nowadays is to allow them to get away with things easier.

"latest studies show...." If their expertise is subject to constant change what good are they? And not a scintilla of humility to be found. This is, I think a very palpable but almost subliminal message being sent. Like newspapers that ruin somebody's life on page one and the retraction gets buried in section four.


In short many of the people running around who think they know what they're talking about are The Experts.

Every profession is a conspiracy against the laity" G.B Shaw
 
One of the big problems that I see is cable 'news'... they bring out 'experts' that spout their political beliefs and no matter what has happened they gleefully spin it in a light that makes them or their party look good or the other look bad...


I can watch CNN or MSNBC and get everybody on there talking down Trump no matter what he does... I get on Fox and it seems to be the exact opposite and they talk down Pelosi et al...


Then you look at the financial shows and they will gleefully explain why the market just dropped 500 points or rose 500 points but were not able to tell you this info the day before...


When it comes to Drs and other experts I tend to listen to them unless I see something that does not make sense to me....



BTW, I have seen many people who say they are 'expert' in financial planning but they are really only salespeople...
 
I know this will probably lead to the path of political arguing. The problem is NOT the mainstream media...at least they attempt to tell the truth unlike "you know who".

This could become problematic, in view of the spot shortages of Bacon.
 
One of the big problems that I see is cable 'news'... they bring out 'experts' that spout their political beliefs and no matter what has happened they gleefully spin it in a light that makes them or their party look good or the other look bad...


I can watch CNN or MSNBC and get everybody on there talking down Trump no matter what he does... I get on Fox and it seems to be the exact opposite and they talk down Pelosi et al...

Then you look at the financial shows and they will gleefully explain why the market just dropped 500 points or rose 500 points but were not able to tell you this info the day before...

When it comes to Drs and other experts I tend to listen to them unless I see something that does not make sense to me....

BTW, I have seen many people who say they are 'expert' in financial planning but they are really only salespeople...

Even they are getting in on the act of pushing some agenda, on various slanted "news" media.
I think they often getting paid to say stuff. Like those old famous actors pushing reverse mortgages.. Paid to lie.
 
Good read, but just a jumping off point. Some very good posts above.

The news media, while trying to tell people what they need to hear, must compete for ears, eyes, and clicks, and so are also forced to ask them what they'd like to hear.
There are more sources of misinformation than ever today between social media, questionable internet sources and partisan entertainment masquerading as news. We have far more information than ever, but facts are harder to find? It’s no surprise more people are uninformed now.

But it’s not solely the fault of media. “We” are a big(ger) part of the problem. We collectively could discourage misinformation, but we won’t.

There are a few networks that shouldn’t even exist IMO but they’re very popular and I’m under no illusion they’ll ever lose viewership, that’s viewers fault, not the networks. And though I’m disappointed in many supposedly real news sources, ultimately the viewers determine what they’re fed. If we didn’t click on bogus sources, and didn’t watch networks who present politicians and celebrities over actual experts, we wouldn’t be flooded with so much misinformation. ‘We (collectively) get what we deserve.”

And consumers of (mis)information disseminate it widely almost instantly. We can mislead hundreds or thousands strangers a half a world away now, we simply couldn’t do that before the internet. “Influencers” can mislead millions. Misinformation didn’t go “viral” in previous generations like it does now. Even professional journalists fall prey to misinformation showing us tweets from unfamiliar sources daily.

I’ve been a fan of PBS Newshour for years, but they’ve been guilty of very poor journalism regarding coronavirus in the past few weeks.
 
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I think the OP was talking less about the media, and more about ourselves.

The former - change your sources if you don't like it, turn the channel, turn it off, etc.

The latter - get real with ourselves. How many posts here on Covid alone do you see members discounting medical professionals and questioning what they have done/said?

Perhaps it's human nature, but so many of us seem to quickly dig in and say "hmmph well I think that's wrong blah blah blah"

We get do well with a few index funds and everyone of us thinks we're John Bogle!
 
I think the OP was talking less about the media, and more about ourselves.

The former - change your sources if you don't like it, turn the channel, turn it off, etc.

The latter - get real with ourselves. How many posts here on Covid alone do you see members discounting medical professionals and questioning what they have done/said?

Perhaps it's human nature, but so many of us seem to quickly dig in and say "hmmph well I think that's wrong blah blah blah"

We get do well with a few index funds and everyone of us thinks we're John Bogle!


As far as experts go it's OK to admit that even "experts" have some built in bias..This bias can shape the way they report information as far as "spin" goes. Every expert at a high level, is beholden to someone, somewhere.

Every human has built in bias..to pretend otherwise is futile. Was it Joe Friday that said "just the facts please"?
 
I once asked my family doctor for a recommendation for a specialist. She told me all of the doctors in her network were very good. I told her we said the same thing about all of the engineers in our department, but I knew better. I later learned she wasn't very good. :(
 
Every human has built in bias..to pretend otherwise is futile.
That doesn’t mean we’re all equally biased, or equally (un)aware of our biases. Some people are at least aware of other POVs, some are very deliberately not. That can make all the difference.
 
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That doesn’t mean we’re all equally biased, or equally (un)aware of our biases. Some people are at least aware of other POVs, some are very deliberately not. That can make all the difference.

The human condition is a puzzle...critical thinking is a lost art and has been for a long time..
 
The human condition is a puzzle...critical thinking is a lost art and has been for a long time..
+1 Ask any teacher/professor especially those with a proper background that teach any of the sciences.


Cheers!
 
I'd guess this is closely related to the widespread dissatisfaction and distrust with the mainstream media. The media likes to portray themselves as experts and quote experts, so I am sure the latter are tarred with the same brush.

Unfortunately, the media sometimes misquotes the experts, which contributes to the problems.
 
If one watches news channels or reads articles online or in print from newspapers and magazines, I think they very carefully distinguish news from opinion. Now, if a channel has 90% or more opinion and 10% or less news, that does not prevent them from being called a news outlet.

So if a news channel reports that 'So-and-So said that "The World is Flat"', then that is actually factual news and not an opinion of the news channel. It does not mean that the world is flat. The news channel itself will not say "The World is Flat" is a truthful statement. They may not refute it especially on one of their opinion shows.
 
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Unfortunately, the media sometimes misquotes the experts, which contributes to the problems.

Consider this,

Media bias

Some Expert bias

Individual bias........

It's just a never ending circle....I guess you can either believe everyone or no one....A poster mentioned WP, they have a running thread of virus news updates is open with no paywall. Yet along with daily death numbers and other factual items they clearly posts comments that are 100% opinion pieces. This morning they linked to an article in the Daily Mail that was an opinion pieces by Piers Morgan.. a guy who never met a crisis he didn't love because he get clicks. There is no world where Piers is an expert..But there he was along side quotes from WHO and CDC..
 
I depend on my intuition. It's better than science or experts because I can only blame or reward myself for a decision or opinon. Intuitively, I follow Dr. Peter Attia, Velshi and Fareed Zakaria. I like how Velshi and Fareed interview, they're respectful of their guests regardless of background. Dr. Attia, expert himself, but invites other experts...also respectfully.
 
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