Breakthrough club

[Chuckanut]

Great article, Chuckanut!

Thank Mark1. For some reason the link on his message did not work when clicked on. I copied and pasted it to my browser, read the article and then copied it off the browser to my message.

Mark1 deserves the credit for finding this well written article.

 

[Chuckanut]

Good article. I am surprised how many people dismiss the vaccine when they get a mild breakthrough case. The vaccines are doing their jobs far batter than anyone expected. Here is an Atlantic article that does a good job explaining the factors governing immune response, boosters, et al. Very reassuring.

A lot of people who do things like dismiss the vaccine when they or somebody they know gets a mild breakthrough case are often suffering from something else - The Dunning Kruger Effect, IMHO

They think they know more than they do, and are unaware of how ignorant they are on the the subject. This happens frequently. I've suffered from it myself. Some get stuck on the top of Mt. Stupid. Others realize their error and seek enlightenment.

 

[sengsational]

His friend goes to San Diego state which started a few weeks ago. They have $1 covid rapid tests in vending machines on campus and in the dorms.

That's got to be subsidized by the U, do you think? I'd like to know the brand. Do you know?

 

[tulak]

At the end of the article, it mentions that a large number of the elder/pre-existing conditions population had a 3rd jab as of Aug1. So in the last charge marked Sept1, you can see all the percentages of efficacy all tick up a few points vs the earlier sample.

For the over 50's, it goes from being 88-92ish efficacy, to 90-95ish, with each age bracket nudging up. So I think that's a decent uptick.

I missed that and had to go back and reread. It's the first note:

Caveats about these data include the fact that a high proportion of the >50yr population was given 3rd shot boosters starting August 1st, so some of the improvement in numbers from the older population could be due to any extra effectiveness from the third shot.

That's a nice increase. Thanks for pointing this out.

I have had some snivvles and a dry cough for a week or 2, not bad just on occasion, usually in the evening and a couple of times at night. I have not taken a commercial Covid test as I do not think it is needed. It may be my BP Meds (ACE inhibitors)

I do perform my own soon to be patented Covid test, I stick my head in our spice cabinet, if I can smell the pleasant odors, I do not have Covid, all good so far .

This is part of the problem and I'm not pointing you out specifically. I'm also guilty. I've had a cough/stuffiness for the last few weeks and I'm pretty sure it's allergies. I had a covid test for my return to the US, so I know at least at that point in time, it wasn't covid. But how many of us have mild symptoms that are covid and we don't know it?

This virus is going to be with us for a long time. It's great that we try to minimize spread, but I think the only way out of this is to make tests cheap and ubiquitous and get vaccinated. Unfortunately with the delta variant, getting vaccinated really only protects you and not those that are unvaccinated or have underlying health issues.

We were notified yesterday that we can start getting our 3rd doses on September 14. You can bet that I will be there that day if at all possible. I got my first dose on the very first day they were offered. I plan to get my 3rd dose on the first day they are offered.

Sign me up for a 3rd dose too. I'll wait until it's allowed by the CDC and when it is, I'll get it immediately.

Idk about others, but I feel that we are really lucky to have an effective vaccine this quick. I know last year, I was skeptical that we'd ever get an effective vaccine for this virus. It's amazing what science can deliver when needed.

 

[Chuckanut]

Idk about others, but I feel that we are really lucky to have an effective vaccine this quick. I know last year, I was skeptical that we'd ever get an effective vaccine for this virus. It's amazing what science can deliver when needed.

IIRC, in early 2020 many of the predictions were if things went well we might have a vaccine as early as the Summer of 2021.

Sometimes, the wind is at your back.

 

[disneysteve]

I feel that we are really lucky to have an effective vaccine this quick. I know last year, I was skeptical that we'd ever get an effective vaccine for this virus. It's amazing what science can deliver when needed.

One big advantage of the mRNA vaccines is that they are fast and easy to produce. Traditional vaccines grown in cell cultures are very time consuming.


Another thing that helped is that the companies actually started producing and stockpiling vaccine before they got FDA approval so that as soon as the approval came through, they had millions of doses ready to go.

 

[disneysteve]

I have had some snivvles and a dry cough for a week or 2, not bad just on occasion, usually in the evening and a couple of times at night. I have not taken a commercial Covid test as I do not think it is needed.

There are two main reasons to get tested when you have symptoms.


1. It's the only way you know if you need to quarantine for 10 days. If you just assume it's a cold/allergies/sinus infection/bronchitis but it's actually COVID and you don't quarantine, you are potentially infecting everyone you come in contact with.


2. It's the only way to start the process to get monoclonal antibody therapy.


Even if you don't care about #2, I would hope that every decent human being cares about #1.

 

[Sunset]

My wife got the J&J in April, I haven’t been vaccinated. She brought home COVID 3.5 weeks ago and passed it to me. My symptoms showed up 3 days after hers. Our symptoms have been almost exactly the same, as has been the severity and duration. From what I can tell, the vaccine did her no good.

If you didn't get tested , it could be lots of other things like flu/cold/allergies/sinus infection/bronchitis, etc..

If you actually have Covid, then her J&J vaccine kept the virus load down low, so you only got a tiny dose, the amount of dose of Covid is a huge factor that determines severity of infection.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

There are two main reasons to get tested when you have symptoms.


1. It's the only way you know if you need to quarantine for 10 days. If you just assume it's a cold/allergies/sinus infection/bronchitis but it's actually COVID and you don't quarantine, you are potentially infecting everyone you come in contact with.


2. It's the only way to start the process to get monoclonal antibody therapy.


Even if you don't care about #2, I would hope that every decent human being cares about #1.

It was supposed to a humorous post to break the monotony. Not to imply I do not care about others. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Why waste a Covid test if one does not need it. I have had ACE inhibitor dry coughs for years on and off, it is a side effect in some folk. I get the snivvles the day after I have Red Wine with supper.

 

[Aerides]

I also agree that testing is important:

If it's not covid, but you just assume it is, it could delay you getting the right treatment for what's really happening.
and
I think stats and data are helpful. I mean we're all more cautious now because of the numbers? If everyone sat home and didn't get tested we would not have those numbers to know where things are getting better or worse. I kind of think of it as standing up and being counted.

 

[disneysteve]

It was supposed to a humorous post

Sorry, I didn't get that you saying you had symptoms and didn't get tested was meant to be funny. I see that happening for real far too often. It's something we struggle with every single day in healthcare.

 

[Ian S]

There are two main reasons to get tested when you have symptoms.


1. It's the only way you know if you need to quarantine for 10 days. If you just assume it's a cold/allergies/sinus infection/bronchitis but it's actually COVID and you don't quarantine, you are potentially infecting everyone you come in contact with.


2. It's the only way to start the process to get monoclonal antibody therapy.


Even if you don't care about #2, I would hope that every decent human being cares about #1.

+1! If I have any symptoms that could be covid, I'm getting a test! I certainly don't want to spread it around and if I do have it, I want the monoclonal antibody therapy. And if I don't have it, then I don't want to isolate unnecessarily.

 

[disneysteve]

+1! If I have any symptoms that could be covid, I'm getting a test! I certainly don't want to spread it around and if I do have it, I want the monoclonal antibody therapy. And if I don't have it, then I don't want to isolate unnecessarily.

My point exactly.


You just don't know if you don't test. COVID mimics so many other conditions that we can no longer just assume we know what it is.


I explain this every day. Yes, you might very well have a sinus infection or bronchitis and it might feel exactly like every other sinus infection or bronchitis you've had in the past, but this time the virus causing it might be coronavirus. The only way to know is to test you.

 

[tulak]

One big advantage of the mRNA vaccines is that they are fast and easy to produce. Traditional vaccines grown in cell cultures are very time consuming.

I expected the virus would adapt quicker than we could adapt. We’ve been lucky that it’s adapted in ways that our vaccines are still effective.

1. It's the only way you know if you need to quarantine for 10 days. If you just assume it's a cold/allergies/sinus infection/bronchitis but it's actually COVID and you don't quarantine, you are potentially infecting everyone you come in contact with.

…

Even if you don't care about #2, I would hope that every decent human being cares about #1.

In theory, this is great. But the reality is it’s inconvenient and expensive to get tested. If testing is going to be a reality, then you need to provide $1 tests that are available everywhere.

I would be hard pressed to say that a majority of people don’t care about #1, but you have to make it easy.

I’ll give you a recent example. A friend’s daughter had symptoms the day before school. She couldn’t get her a test until later the next day and the results weren’t available until 2 days later. She missed the first two days of school. Fortunately she was negative. So yeah, if I have sniffles and usually have those symptoms, then I won’t get tested. But if I had a cheap test, then sure, why not.

 

[Alan]

I test myself even without symptoms. 10 days ago I went to a soccer match, and tested a few days later. We are going to stay with my SIL in Edinburgh in 3 days time so I tested myself today. (If I tested positive with a home kit I have time to take a PCR to decide whether or not to go).

 

[disneysteve]

the reality is it’s inconvenient and expensive to get tested.

I’ll give you a recent example. A friend’s daughter had symptoms the day before school. She couldn’t get her a test until later the next day and the results weren’t available until 2 days later. She missed the first two days of school. Fortunately she was negative. So yeah, if I have sniffles and usually have those symptoms, then I won’t get tested. But if I had a cheap test, then sure, why not.

COVID testing is free (at least in the US), so cost isn't an issue at all, but I agree that it needs to be much more readily available and the results need to come back quickly. It can't take 2 days to get an appointment for a test and then 2 more to get the results. Anyone who wants a test needs to be able to just show up at their local pharmacy, get swabbed, and have results within 24 hours.

 

[harllee]

I am going through my normal fall allergies (mainly ragweed). Sneezing, coughing, itchy eyes, stuffy head (no loss of smell or taste, no temperature). I have used 2 home Covid tests already on days I felt really bad (both negative at $30 each). My antihistamines are helping a little. I have now decided it is just the allergies I get every fall and I am not going to test for Covid any more for these symptoms. Is this the right thing to do?

 

[disneysteve]

I am going through my normal fall allergies (mainly ragweed). Sneezing, coughing, itchy eyes, stuffy head (no loss of smell or taste, no temperature). I have used 2 home Covid tests already on days I felt really bad (both negative at $30 each). My antihistamines are helping a little. I have now decided it is just the allergies I get every fall and I am not going to test for Covid any more for these symptoms. Is this the right thing to do?

I think so. You've ruled out COVID.


$30/test is a lot. We just bought a 2-pack of rapid tests at CVS for $24 so $12/test. And we had a 30% off coupon from our CVS rewards card which made it even cheaper.

 

[harllee]

COVID testing is free (at least in the US), so cost isn't an issue at all, but I agree that it needs to be much more readily available and the results need to come back quickly. It can't take 2 days to get an appointment for a test and then 2 more to get the results. Anyone who wants a test needs to be able to just show up at their local pharmacy, get swabbed, and have results within 24 hours.

Steve I have to disagree about the cost and availability. I cannot find an appointment in my area for a Covid test until several days out at any of the pharmacies or the health department. To get a test today I would have to drive an hour to a CVS and then it would be three days for the result. So what I have done is buy the home test online (none available locally) and I have paid an average of $30 per test.

For me to get a test locally and get the results would be at least 5 day out. What you say may be true for your area but it is not true everywhere.

 

[harllee]

I think so. You've ruled out COVID.


$30/test is a lot. We just bought a 2-pack of rapid tests at CVS for $24 so $12/test. And we had a 30% off coupon from our CVS rewards card which made it even cheaper.

None at any local drug stores so I had to buy on Amazon.

 

[disneysteve]

Steve I have to disagree about the cost and availability. I cannot find an appointment in my area for a Covid test until several days out at any of the pharmacies or the health department. To get a test today I would have to drive an hour to a CVS and then it would be three days for the result. So what I have done is buy the home test online (none available locally) and I have paid an average of $30 per test.

For me to get a test locally and get the results would be at least 5 day out. What you say may be true for your area but it is not true everywhere.

Very fair point.


As I agreed above, testing needs to be much more available and results need to come back quickly.


At our urgent cares, results are back in 24 hours. If you qualify for a rapid test, results are back in 15 minutes (and much quicker if you're positive).

 

[disneysteve]

There is currently a national shortage of rapid tests. Abbott scaled back production when it looked like things were getting better. Then Delta exploded and they're playing catch up. We actually ran out of rapid tests in our centers this week. We're hoping to have them back soon. We go through a ton of them in order to get people onto monoclonal antibody treatment as quickly as possible.

 

[Aerides]

Steve I have to disagree about the cost and availability. I cannot find an appointment in my area for a Covid test until several days out at any of the pharmacies or the health department. To get a test today I would have to drive an hour to a CVS and then it would be three days for the result. So what I have done is buy the home test online (none available locally) and I have paid an average of $30 per test.

For me to get a test locally and get the results would be at least 5 day out. What you say may be true for your area but it is not true everywhere.

Our situation last weekend was similar, but then we found our county sites were up and running again. It took a lot of digging as most websites - from the state - said CVS/Walgreens/Quest all of which were days out to book. Then after more digging around we found our county drive thru site (2 miles away) is open 9-7.

We got an immediate acceptance to go over there, the results of the insta test via email before we got home, and the full PCR test the next day.

 

[rodi]

That's got to be subsidized by the U, do you think? I'd like to know the brand. Do you know?

I've asked him to get some since he's seeing this friend on campus today.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Sorry, I didn't get that you saying you had symptoms and didn't get tested was meant to be funny. I see that happening for real far too often. It's something we struggle with every single day in healthcare.

A DRY non productive cough (that I have had for years because of the BP Meds) and snivvling are hardly symptoms. Perhaps if one is paranoid, but I am not.