Why gas prices are so high

[dmpi]

The consumer has the power to lower gas prices. They just have to quit buying it and let the free market do it's thing. Right now I still see people pumping away regardless of the price. Also I don't think a tax holiday will do all that much. Oil companies will just find a excuse to raise prices so they can maintain current pricing.

 

[Car-Guy]

^^^^^^


+1

 

[ls99]

A tax holiday is a political stunt, just like pulling some crude oil from the SPR was and selling it worldwide.

Yeeeeaaaah, a big whopping 18.4 cent fed gas tax.

 

[isisdave]

The federal gas tax is currently about 3.5% of the total price, so suspending it won't be very noticeable, IMHO. State rates are more like 32-58 cents per gallon, so 5-10%. If they really wanted some fairness, they'd cap state sales taxes so that if the price per gallon went over, say, $3.50, the excess would be exempt. That, and suspending the state fuel tax for a while, might help. Why should the state enjoy doubled sales tax revenue from an inflationary crisis? [Answer: because stuff they buy, and salaries they pay, is inflating too.]

But help what? It'll just delay the inevitable.

In the US, we like to spend as little as possible. It's almost a game. Repair the roads? Our kids can do that. Renewable energy? One for the grandkids. Oops, that bridge fell down? Let's fix THAT ONE but not many others.

 

[marko]

The consumer has the power to lower gas prices. They just have to quit buying it and let the free market do it's thing. Right now I still see people pumping away regardless of the price..

I'd suggest that most people would cut bsck if they could. Our country was built around the car. People live dozens and dozens of miles from work, groceries, doctors, church and the like.

Even if they were able to, we rely on trucks to deliver just about everything we consume. Like it or not, we cannot go back to 1922....we just don't live like that anymore.

 

[NW-Bound]

Eh, talk about fuel tax, here's another thing to show that Europeans may be more enlightened than Americans.

In a past gasoline world-wide shortage, truckers in France went nuts protesting the gas tax. Their gripe was that the government got a windfall profit out of the shortage. How so?

You see, fuel tax in France (back then, I don't know about now) was based on price, like a sales tax. It was not based on units of fuel, such as so many cents per liter. So, when fuel price went up, the French government collected more. The truckers understood that they had to compete with the rest of the world to buy fuel, but it irked them that the government also got more money per liter of fuel.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'd suggest that most people would cut bsck if they could. Our country was built around the car. People live dozens and dozens of miles from work, groceries, doctors, church and the like.

Even if they were able to, we rely on trucks to deliver just about everything we consume. Like it or not, we cannot go back to 1922....we just don't live like that anymore.

Well, we can drive slower. And buy smaller cars.

Even with EVs, none of this silly "stupendous acceleration". How green is that?

 

[neihn]

Well, we can drive slower. And buy smaller cars.

....

+1
What's a novel idea

 

[Aerides]

Well, we can drive slower. And buy smaller cars.

In 2008 I had a 40 mile (each way) commute, and a small SUV. I spent 2 hours on the road each work day. Going slower meant adding more time to that grueling commute. I looked at different routes, but didn't want to add another 30 mins each day in the car. Getting a smaller care meant taking a loss on a 2 year old purchase to downsize (looked a the Prius at the time) and would not have paid itself back in gas for several years.

And with that commute, I felt safer being in a not-small car. 70% of the way was barreling down the highways at 80 mph. Alongside most others far bigger than even what I drove.

So, while size and fuel efficiency can be factors for a future purchase, it's not a behavior most can change...immediately, as any relief for the current situation, or even in the next few months. Gotta get to work, get the kids to school...and like the extra expense, most working families can't afford the extra time to go significantly slower either - which is only a factor if their commute isn't already just stop and go city traffic.

 

[audreyh1]

I have a 13 year old Honda that gets up to 40 miles/gal if we don't drive too fast. Even if I did have an electric vehicle and my gas bill was $0, I would still be pretty upset about high gas prices because it seems to be really screwing with the whole economy.

I know a lot of people don't like Elon Musk, but I was really hoping to see some of these electric semi trucks on the road by now: https://www.tesla.com/semi

Your gas bill may be $0 if you drive an EV but you still have to pay for electricity, and electricity has also gone up!

 

[Car-Guy]

Well, we can drive slower.

Anyone here remember the double nickle (55mph) speed limits that Nixon imposed back in the mid 70's. That saved less than 1% in gas consumption by most estimates IIRC, probably becasue so many ignored the new speed limits.


Of course it was a major source of income for small towns issuing tons of speeding tickets.

 

[NW-Bound]

In 2008 I had a 40 mile (each way) commute, and a small SUV. I spent 2 hours on the road each work day. Going slower meant adding more time to that grueling commute. I looked at different routes, but didn't want to add another 30 mins each day in the car. Getting a smaller care meant taking a loss on a 2 year old purchase to downsize (looked a the Prius at the time) and would not have paid itself back in gas for several years.

And with that commute, I felt safer being in a not-small car. 70% of the way was barreling down the highways at 80 mph. Alongside most others far bigger than even what I drove.

So, while size and fuel efficiency can be factors for a future purchase, it's not a behavior most can change...immediately, as any relief for the current situation, or even in the next few months. Gotta get to work, get the kids to school...and like the extra expense, most working families can't afford the extra time to go significantly slower either - which is only a factor if their commute isn't already just stop and go city traffic.

Yes. It took a while for old cars to die out, and for people to accept the new smaller cars as the standard.

As mentioned in an earlier post, the gas shortage in the late 70s/early 80s caused my parents to park their big Chevy station wagon with a 350 c.i. V8 (5,700 cc, perhaps 8 mpg and on the highway) to drive a VW Rabbit with a 1,500 cc engine. At that time, US car makers were in deep doo-doo, because they had no small cars to sell. People bought Japanese and European cars with 4-cyl engines.

When everybody drives smaller cars, you don't feel unsafe. And people will take jobs closer to home, cut back on extra-curricular activities that make them drive all the time.

Europeans don't drive as much as we do. They cannot afford to. People will adapt to whatever they need to do to survive.

What happened in the US was that after each fuel shortage, the oil industry stepped up and drilled, drilled, drilled. Gas got cheap again. No more puny 4-cyl engines. Big V8s got back in vogue.

Rinse and repeat. People never learn. Same with housing bubbles, stock bubbles, what have you. And they complain, and wail, and blame this and that. They blame the oil companies for drilling too much, then not drilling enough. It never changes.

 

[Oilcan]

+1

 

[cyber888]

Both of my cars are 4 cylinder - one gives me 30-32 mpg on the highway, and the other is a allroad wagon that gives me 27-28. Had an Audi V8 before that drank gas quickly, but now my 4 cylinder BMW 228 coupe that I chipped is faster than my previous V8 and more fun to drive.

 

[NW-Bound]

For something as old as the combustion engine, I was surprised that they could still find ways to improve it, namely more power out of a smaller engine, and better efficiency too.

After buying my 2020 car, I was impressed how it drove and burned fuel compared to my older cars.

 

[Zathras]

Eh, talk about fuel tax, here's another thing to show that Europeans may be more enlightened than Americans.

In a past gasoline world-wide shortage, truckers in France went nuts protesting the gas tax. Their gripe was that the government got a windfall profit out of the shortage. How so?

You see, fuel tax in France (back then, I don't know about now) was based on price, like a sales tax. It was not based on units of fuel, such as so many cents per liter. So, when fuel price went up, the French government collected more. The truckers understood that they had to compete with the rest of the world to buy fuel, but it irked them that the government also got more money per liter of fuel.

A flat fee simply doesn’t work. The same amount of money has less and less power to pay for infrastructure.
It either needs to be a percentage, or linked with inflation.

 

[Alan]

Maybe let's back off the political aspects in this discussion, there are plenty of other reasons to dive into of interest to all members.

<mod note> post(s) were deleted.

 

[Badger]

Anyone here remember the double nickle (55mph) speed limits that Nixon imposed back in the mid 70's. That saved less than 1% in gas consumption by most estimates IIRC, probably becasue so many ignored the new speed limits.


Of course it was a major source of income for small towns issuing tons of speeding tickets.

At that time I didn't have much choice driving 55mph on the highway. I was driving a 72 VW bus.

Cheers!

 

[Koolau]

I checked driving slower on my car and there is very little difference in fuel mileage between 55 and 75 (actually between 45 and 75 - I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.) I know the physics says there should be a big difference, but there just isn't.

It apparently has to do with the way my engine performs at speed. For some reason, at the 2500 or so rpm it needs at 75, my V6 is very efficient. I had a 1.8l Subaru many years ago. To do 75, the little 4 banger (opposed - boxer engine) ran at well over 4000 rpm and the fuel mileage fell off a cliff. In town, of course, the little Subaru blew away my big Buick's fuel mileage - but not on the Freeway.

Another example is the Geo Metro. About 1991 I rented a Geo Metro w/auto trans. I drove it in Phoenix freeway traffic. To even come close to keeping up with traffic, I had to keep the gas pedal on the floor. It was really kind of scary. And mileage was only about 30. Of course, the auto trans car was rated at 39 IIRC. So smaller is not always the key. Apparently it's complicated. YMMV

 

[Car-Guy]

At that time I didn't have much choice driving 55mph on the highway. I was driving a 72 VW bus.

Cheers!

That would be about right.

 

[dmpi]

I checked driving slower on my car and there is very little difference in fuel mileage between 55 and 75 (actually between 45 and 75 - I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.) I know the physics says there should be a big difference, but there just isn't.

The beauty of today's modern cars is that most have real-time fuel mileage gauges and you can actually do some experimentation and get accurate results. I think today's modern cars are generally much more aerodynamic and speed becomes less of a factor.

 

[CRLLS]

I can definitely see the difference in MPG from 55MPH to 75 in both my cars, a 2015 Escape and '22 Kona, both with turbos. They both can get 30+ on the highway on a good day. Wind speed also has a noticeable effect. Winter seems to be the worst for MPG. From my studies, it is primarily due to the higher density of cold air. Winter fuel formulation seems to be a lower contribution.

I also remember the 70's when speed limits were 55MPH and speedometers were only allowed to show 85MPH maximum.

I had an '81 Mazda GLC (manual), a '89 Buick Century that both got >30MPG highway back then. Even my '64 Karmann Ghia got ~ 28MPG highway. I would expect that we should get better improvements over 30-40 years of technology. It seems the car mfgrs have focused more on better acceleration than mileage.

 

[Midpack]

I checked driving slower on my car and there is very little difference in fuel mileage between 55 and 75 (actually between 45 and 75 - I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself.) I know the physics says there should be a big difference, but there just isn't.

This appears to confirm your conclusion. MPG falls more above and below 45-75.

 

[Chuckanut]

At that time I didn't have much choice driving 55mph on the highway. I was driving a 72 VW bus.

Cheers!

I remember a compact Chevy I rented on a trip where I had to cross the Continental Divide in Colorado. I was getting passed by VW buses and even some motor homes!!! I hope I didn't slow you down to much.

 

[Chuckanut]

This appears to confirm your conclusion. MPG falls more above and below 45-75.

My hybrid hit 50+ mpg (it's rated at 38 mpg overall) on a two lane reasonably flat country road while driving at a fairly constant 45 mph. I will remember this in case I am ever in a situation where I desperately have to stretch the remaining fuel in the tank.