Money does make you happier, new study finds.

[Gumby]

.....
Money isn't the root of all evil. It is close to it though.
Noone commits crimes in the pursuit of a good yogurt! But money??

This is the correct quote:

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” 1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV) (emphasis mine)

Money itself is morally neutral.

 

[rodi]

Years ago (80's ?) Oprah had a show on lottery winners who were unhappy/had lost all the money. Some were saying how much happier they were before they hit it big on the lottery. The audience didn't buy it. Oprah then said something that stuck with me:

Money may not buy happiness but it can eliminate a lot of things that make you unhappy.

I would have a lot more money if I'd stayed working for 10 more years or more. But I'm plenty happy with what I have. (Which is much less than many here). Not going to work makes me happy.

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah! Not going to work (for the Company) makes me real happy. Not setting the alarm M-F, makes me happy.

Doing whatever I want... Yeah Baby! Happy Happy Happy

 

[Andre1969]

Years ago (80's ?) Oprah had a show on lottery winners who were unhappy/had lost all the money. Some were saying how much happier they were before they hit it big on the lottery. The audience didn't buy it. Oprah then said something that stuck with me:

Money may not buy happiness but it can eliminate a lot of things that make you unhappy.

I would have a lot more money if I'd stayed working for 10 more years or more. But I'm plenty happy with what I have. (Which is much less than many here). Not going to work makes me happy.

Every once in awhile, I'll come across those "lottery curse" stories, of people who have won the lottery, but end up being worse off because of it. They're good at scaring people, and generating mouse clicks, I'm sure. Of course, you never see stories about those who have won big on the lottery, and lived happily ever after.

I have a feeling that lottery winners might be a bit skewed, though. People who play the lottery tend to be poorer, not have the best math skills, how much it truly costs to live "rich", etc. As a result, the rags-to-riches-to-rags stories might be fairly common. But, overall, I imagine the majority of winners still learn how to handle it.

Some relatives of mine won $100,000 back in the late 1980s or early 1990s. However, they were serious gamblers, and liked to put on airs. They lost a single family home in the 1990s, and then a townhouse in the early 2000s. Towards the end, the husband had gotten really sick, and they ended up getting divorced, for financial reasons. I think he was able to get Medicaid or some other kind of assistance going that route. But the wife ended up moving into an in-law suite that my Grandmom's cousin had. And now lives in a trailer in Florida, that was recently damaged by a hurricane.

As for the whole "more money vs more work" conundrum, I'm sort of on the threshold of that right now. I tend to think of the old "BS Bucket" analogy, where eventually no amount of money will offset the amount of BS at work, and then I know it's time to go. Only problem for me is, the BS has actually gone down. I'm reasonably happy right now, as things are. I only go into the office one day per week, and they're pretty flexible with my overall hours, as long as the work gets done, and as long as it totals out to 80 hours every two weeks (can be a combination of actual work hours and PTO/holiday hours). So at this point, I don't know that I'd be any happier retired. Of course, that's subject to change!

 

[freedomatlast]

I found the most fulfilling and happy weeks of my life, were while working. The external validation, being a part of team, and something greater than yourself, were all hard for me to replicate post-retirement. On the flip side, my most miserable MONTHs were all while I was working. The stress, dealing with a bad boss, or having to sacrifice family or personal time, for work are all pretty horrible feelings.

I can really relate to what OP stated here and agree 100%.

So perhaps the best of both worlds is if a person can get paid well and gain external validation, being a part of a team and something greater than yourself, without the stress, bad bosses or having to sacrifice family or personal time. Sounds a lot like the wonderful world of consulting!

The other thing that comes to mind when reading this post about money and happiness, is that as some people become financially successful and acquire more "stuff", the "stuff" starts to become a burden leading to unhappiness. Some real life examples that I've seen over the years include the couple with the brand new expensive house with the $250,000 oriental rug and they freak out if someone actually walks in it. Or the guy that buys the exotic sports car and gets anxious if it gets dirty or he starts to resent the time it takes to drive 2 to 3 hours to the nearest dealership each time it needs repair or service.

 

[Surewhitey]

As for the whole "more money vs more work" conundrum, I'm sort of on the threshold of that right now. I tend to think of the old "BS Bucket" analogy, where eventually no amount of money will offset the amount of BS at work, and then I know it's time to go. Only problem for me is, the BS has actually gone down. I'm reasonably happy right now, as things are. I only go into the office one day per week, and they're pretty flexible with my overall hours, as long as the work gets done, and as long as it totals out to 80 hours every two weeks (can be a combination of actual work hours and PTO/holiday hours). So at this point, I don't know that I'd be any happier retired. Of course, that's subject to change!

Yeah, DW just said that her's is easy money with paid travel and bonuses. I can't disagree with her technically. I left the 7-6 job & started my own biz & enjoy the w*rk I do now, sometimes even doing it on the weekends for no good reason.

Contentment is something I hear a lot @ religious meetings and I personally feel we are "there".

Regarding wasting food, I still use the 5 second rule... Unless Gracie is around the table.

 

[dunkelblau]

Oh yeah! Not going to work (for the Company) makes me real happy. Not setting the alarm M-F, makes me happy.

Doing whatever I want... Yeah Baby! Happy Happy Happy

BTD not on your list? Hmm...

Seems likely to me that fatfire, fire, and leanfire are equally happy on average, but I haven't seen studies comparing them. Anyone recall a poll covering this on this board?

 

[FREE866]

Great thread and I like most of the comments....


I don't have an obscene amount of money and I'm not Mother Theresa , but what gives me immense pleasure is helping out family members.





Also, and in "real life" I don't tell people this , but really like helping out in a small way for people in desperate situations.



Example, I live in NYC and last month on a bitter cold day a woman and her kid were sitting outside with suitcases...she wasnt asking for money ( not that I think theres something wrong with that at all) , but she had tears in her eyes. I said to her "are you ok" and she said no. I invited her into a pizza place and bought her and her child a pizza and drinks. Not that I'm some big hero, but I can't tell you how great that made me feel. Made my day and they were genuinely grateful, and fed . Win-win!

 

[HawkOwl]

I've noticed poor and lower middle class folk, often talk about money in a negative way. There is the mis-quoted saying heard often: "Money is the root of all evil".
There is also the common believe rich folks are miserly, stingy, fretting over their money all the time, like scrooge McDuck.

I think this is self satisfying , sort of a sour grapes attitude. "I can't get the grapes , but they are probably sour anyway".

Of the rich and wealthy folks I personally knew, all I ever saw was the opposite, they seemed so normal I didn't know most of them were rich/wealthy.

+1

 

[HawkOwl]

.

I wonder sometimes about our American preoccupation with happiness. Sometimes, we seem to measure our success in life in terms of how happy we are. We put on a happy face, because there is the cultural expectation that we should be happy, and if we're not, something is wrong. I fall into this trap myself, so I'm not pointing fingers.

I have read a lot of happiness literature, and you can draw some tips from it, but ultimately most of it is pretty shallow. Happiness is not the be-all, end-all of human life. There are more important things than whether you are happy or not. Happiness is not the measure of your success as a person.

This is a very good point. I see “happiness” as a side effect of living according to good values. It may be correlated to material success, to the extent that “good values” may increase the odds of both. But happiness is shallow and ephemeral, and unlikely to be achieved if it is your sole goal.

 

[KarenC]

Years ago (80's ?) Oprah had a show on lottery winners who were unhappy/had lost all the money. Some were saying how much happier they were before they hit it big on the lottery. The audience didn't buy it. Oprah then said something that stuck with me:

Money may not buy happiness but it can eliminate a lot of things that make you unhappy.

I would have a lot more money if I'd stayed working for 10 more years or more. But I'm plenty happy with what I have. (Which is much less than many here). Not going to work makes me happy.

From what I've read, it is important to distinguish between "happiness" and "life satisfaction." Also, probably to make an interesting show, there was certainly some selection bias. According to research, "lottery winners who won larger sums of up to $2 million actually retained their wealth well over a decade after the jackpot." https://time.com/5427275/lottery-winning-happiness-debunked/

 

[Surewhitey]

Great thread and I like most of the comments....



Example, I live in NYC and last month on a bitter cold day a woman and her kid were sitting outside with suitcases...she wasnt asking for money ( not that I think theres something wrong with that at all) , but she had tears in her eyes. I said to her "are you ok" and she said no. I invited her into a pizza place and bought her and her child a pizza and drinks. Not that I'm some big hero, but I can't tell you how great that made me feel. Made my day and they were genuinely grateful, and fed . Win-win!

Yeah, I would recommend paying for someone's gas. I pulled into Sam's gas & after getting the spot, it appeared that a lady might have been trying to switch lanes to "get it too". She pulled up on the other side and I felt like treating her to a tank. She was in tears by the time she left. She was a hospice nurse and likely stressed out. She took a selfie with me just because... Made an impact on her and me...

 

[finnski1]

I also see the reverse, Sunset, with wealthy people embracing the belief that money is a sign of your worth or merit. It makes them feel better about themselves.

I wonder sometimes about our American preoccupation with happiness. Sometimes, we seem to measure our success in life in terms of how happy we are. We put on a happy face, because there is the cultural expectation that we should be happy, and if we're not, something is wrong. I fall into this trap myself, so I'm not pointing fingers.

I have read a lot of happiness literature, and you can draw some tips from it, but ultimately most of it is pretty shallow. Happiness is not the be-all, end-all of human life. There are more important things than whether you are happy or not. Happiness is not the measure of your success as a person.

Well if we are preoccupied with it , we're not doing a very good job. The last 5 years in a row the Finns have been recognized as the happiest country in the world. The US only came in 16th place last year.
Overall rank Country or region
1

Finland
2

Denmark
3

Iceland
4

Switzerland
5

Netherlands
6

Luxembourg
7

Sweden
8

Norway
9

Israel
10

New Zealand
11

Austria
12

Australia
13

Ireland
14

Germany
15

Canada
16 United States
17 United Kingdom
18 Czech Republic
19 Belgium
20 France

 

[FREE866]

Yeah, I would recommend paying for someone's gas. I pulled into Sam's gas & after getting the spot, it appeared that a lady might have been trying to switch lanes to "get it too". She pulled up on the other side and I felt like treating her to a tank. She was in tears by the time she left. She was a hospice nurse and likely stressed out. She took a selfie with me just because... Made an impact on her and me...

That's a fantastic story--well done!

 

[HawkOwl]

I also see the reverse, Sunset, with wealthy people embracing the belief that money is a sign of your worth or merit. It makes them feel better about themselves.

When you become skilled at anything, from canning peaches to throwing a frisbee, you tend to become more focused on it. You probably take satisfaction in your growing proficiency. It does not mean that you are corrupted into believing you are of more value in a global sense than those less proficient.

If a bird watcher succeeds in seeing 700 species of North American birds, they almost certainly feel good about the accomplishment. Why shouldn’t they? Would they claim it was a sign of “worth or merit” as a human being? Probably not, unless they have deeper problems that have nothing to do with birdwatching.

 

[Koolau]

If you were wealthy, you could/would just hire someone to handle the situation for you, or have them on staff all the time, as groceries need to be purchased and cooked, and the house cleaned, doctor appt's to make, and travel arranged, etc...

I suppose you are right, except I consider myself at that in-between level of wealth. IOW I am more than comfortable but less than "rich" - whatever that means. I could hire everything done - but that goes back to hassle factor. We've been trying for a few months to get a decent handyman to do some stuff for us. It's harder than it sounds - especially post Covid. YMMV

 

[scrabbler1]

From what I've read, it is important to distinguish between "happiness" and "life satisfaction." Also, probably to make an interesting show, there was certainly some selection bias. According to research, "lottery winners who won larger sums of up to $2 million actually retained their wealth well over a decade after the jackpot." https://time.com/5427275/lottery-winning-happiness-debunked/

The $300k I got when I cashed out my company stock I compare to winning a small lottery. The shares of company stock, which didn't cost me anything, were given to me in the first 4 of the 10 years leading up to my ER in late 2008. Their value exploded by 3000% from the initial (par) value at Day One.

Treating this as a huge lottery-like windfall, it became a key part of my ER plan, allowing me to keep the rest of my 401k intact. Cashing that out would have cost me nearly 50 cents on the dollar in taxes. Cashing out the company stock cost me only 25 cents on the dollar in taxes thanks to using NUA (Net Unrealized Appreciation) and the max cap gains rate (15% federal at the time).

I agree that the media has distorted the outcomes of those who won big lottery payouts, emphasizing the failures over the far less sexy successes.

 

[Koolau]

I will never have enough money to knowingly waste food.

Yeah, it's in my DNA, I guess. When I was a kid, my mom and dad w*rked 12 to 15 hours/day starting a business. Everything was scarce - including food. We had "enough" but no more. Their experience profoundly affected me going forward. I hate the concept of waste - especially food. Heh, heh, it shows too. Well, at least my waist shows it.

 

[SunGuy]

Only up to about $75K, AFTER THAT IT DROPS OFF.

 

[Surewhitey]

Only up to about $75K, AFTER THAT IT DROPS OFF.

Dw's bonus & profit sharing announcement is going to make her meh for the next 10 months then...

 

[Andre1969]

It may drop off after $75K, as a (very) rough average. But I can guarantee you if my salary got reduced to that, I'd be pretty miffed about it!

 

[street]

+1 I am not a fan of waste, whether it's time, food, space, money or things (barring something that is actually damaging).

From what I've read, it is important to distinguish between "happiness" and "life satisfaction." Also, probably to make an interesting show, there was certainly some selection bias. According to research, "lottery winners who won larger sums of up to $2 million actually retained their wealth well over a decade after the jackpot." https://time.com/5427275/lottery-winning-happiness-debunked/

I would believe frugal and good savers in life have that common trait of not be wasteful. It is something I work very hard on each day to not be wasteful.

I also believe having enough makes us happy for may reason. Distinguishing them can be so rewarding to having more than we need.

For some years now, I been wanting to help people that come to a local cancer treatment center. My thought is to be able to give a voucher of $5 off a meal at the hospital cafeteria. My thought be to prepay $100 worth of $5 voucher tickets to cafeteria group. These vouchers would be a there for a family or person who would like to take one for a discount on a meal. Most of these people come from out of town and costs can be overwhelming for people. I would be able to help in a small way but might mean a world of difference to that person.

A $100 would help 20 people with a discount meal.

 

[Markola]

^^^ Street, Have you looked into Ronald McDonald House Charities? I don’t know a lot about them except that their mission is generally what you describe, though maybe more focused on children and their families. https://rmhc.org

 

[scrabbler1]

Only up to about $75K, AFTER THAT IT DROPS OFF.

My final full-time salary, before I reduced it when I switched to part-time (then reduced it again 6 years later to work even fewer hours) was just under $78k, so I do find some merit in your comment, one I have heard a few times over the years. Has it ever been adjusted for inflation?

 

[street]

^^^ Street, Have you looked into Ronald McDonald House Charities? I don’t know a lot about them except that their mission is generally what you describe, though maybe more focused on children and their families. https://rmhc.org

No, I haven't. I go like to keep my charity giving in my community if at all possible.

Looks like a great way to help and thank you for that link.