Estate Planning cost and landmines?

[OldShooter]

... If, after going thru the documents, you feel like you need to hire an attorney, you will be an informed client. Of you feel comfortable DIY, then they will create the documents and advice necessary. ...

The flaw here is that this online stuff will help you handle the knowns, and the known unknowns, but specialist attorneys know many things that are unknown unknowns to amateur estate planners. Whether skipping that last category is acceptable is up to the individual.

 

[Dash man]

The flaw here is that this online stuff will help you handle the knowns, and the known unknowns, but specialist attorneys know many things that are unknown unknowns to amateur estate planners. Whether skipping that last category is acceptable is up to the individual.

+1

They can also explain differences between the various optional methods of setting up a trust, which may be particularly important with a blended family.

 

[bingybear]

make sure all docs are up to date with laws. you could end with a multble year toropedo

 

[CRLLS]

The flaw here is that this online stuff will help you handle the knowns, and the known unknowns, but specialist attorneys know many things that are unknown unknowns to amateur estate planners. Whether skipping that last category is acceptable is up to the individual.

Perhaps. Getting WillMaker will at least get a person familiar with the process if they are not already familiar with it. Going cold into an Attorney's office will not prepare them for the most basic questions to something so important. Most people do not have difficult estate plans/EOL papers. WillMaker did a good job of asking questions and explaining the options. I found it easy to perform the necessary papers and ours was not a cookie cutter solution, Of course YMMV and people are different. I highly recommend purchasing it, if only for the educational aspect.

 

[OldShooter]

Perhaps. Getting WillMaker will at least get a person familiar with the process if they are not already familiar with it. Going cold into an Attorney's office will not prepare them for the most basic questions to something so important. Most people do not have difficult estate plans/EOL papers. WillMaker did a good job of asking questions and explaining the options. I found it easy to perform the necessary papers and ours was not a cookie cutter solution, Of course YMMV and people are different. I highly recommend purchasing it, if only for the educational aspect.

I don't disagree with much of that. Of course lawyers are used to helping clients who start from zero, but that is not a desirable thing. A smarter and better educated customer is A Good Thing in most relationships..

 

[Dash man]

There are plenty of YouTube videos where you can learn about estate planning, though not everything may apply to your state. A Google search on questions to ask an estate attorney is also helpful.

 

[CincyDave]

Well, Vanguard at least will not allow beneficiary designation on Joint accounts.

Based on this Fidelity article, it sounds like they do allow it. Guess it varies by institution.
https://www.fidelity.com/life-event...th right,both owners pass away simultaneously.

 

[SecondCor521]

Based on this Fidelity article, it sounds like they do allow it. Guess it varies by institution.
https://www.fidelity.com/life-event...th right,both owners pass away simultaneously.

It does vary by institution. It's a well known Vanguard quirk that thankfully doesn't affect me.

 

[Sunset]

It does vary by institution. It's a well known Vanguard quirk that thankfully doesn't affect me.

I didn't know, but now I do !

 

[5Miler]

Check if your employer offers a legal plan as part of the employee benefits. We have the MetLife legal plan (formerly Hyatt plan) and they cover estate planning, as well as other legal coverage for free if you participate. We used them to set up (and later revise) our trust, well as for real estate and my son’s speeding ticket. Open enrollment for benefits should begin soon for 2024.

We did the same thing 9 years ago just before DGF retired. Her Mega Corp offered legal planning which she took advantage of and provided Trust planning for both of us at no additional cost. They took care of title changes as needed and really held our hands through the entire process.

 

[Marc]

Based on this Fidelity article, it sounds like they do allow it. Guess it varies by institution.
https://www.fidelity.com/life-event...th right,both owners pass away simultaneously.

Today I needed to update all my beneficiaries to disown my sister and found out that you in fact can have multiple contingent beneficiaries on a TOD spousal joint account at Fidelity.

Marc

 

[OldShooter]

Today I needed to update all my beneficiaries ...

That's the problem I see with all this TOD/POD stuff. Instead of having our wishes gathered up neatly in an estate plan that can often eliminate the need to update after, for example, death of a beneficiary, we would have to scurry around to a list of accounts, possibly not fast enough and possibly missing some. Simultaneous death in a common disaster of a couple using a TOD/POD scheme might also gum things up.

 

[Gallaher]

We paid about $6k seven years ago. Ours is complicated in that we have a disabled son that needs different provision.
Keep in mind, all things are negotiable, I was surprised at how quickly the law firm knocked the price down to $6k from $8k.
Not a big law firm but a “respected good sized firm in a small town that specializes in estate planning.”

 

[PandaBear]

We live in a HCOL area and there is a local place (been around 35+ years).
In addition to their regular trusts that are individualized, they have an online version that is designed for a simple distribution of assets (spouse first, then even distribution between heirs, typically children).

They go over each page with a video. You provide the info for each page, and they develop the trust. It includes things like what goes in the trust, a pour over will, guardianship of minor children, etc.

It was only $500 (Affordable Living Trusts in Saratoga CA). It was a great way to get a trust done our previous will only had our firstborn child specifically mentioned, and he’s 31 now!).

We will likely decide to change things up down the road (we’re in our early 60’s) which may include bequests to charity, etc, but we weren’t ready to decide all those things. This was a very reasonable price to get something in place.

Obviously not appropriate for the OP, but I am mentioning it as it may be a good option for others reading this thread to explore.

 

[VFK57]

Original estate planning was done in 2001 for $1,700. In 2022 we decided to update it as our only son was married and with grand kids. To update the estate we were quoted from $3,000 to $5,000. We got a $3,500 charge, because the lowest price comes with poor reviews and wise versa.

 

[Route246]

That amount is low here in NorCal to have a highly qualified trust attorney sign off on that package. You get what you pay for.

The first round we paid that kind of retainer and when I first saw what was presented it appeared to be a lot of templates and forms that were filled in with our information. I have cheap friends who look at that and say they will save money and go the turbotax equivalent route. I explain to them that we are not paying for someone to fill in templates and forms. We are paying for expertise on how to fill them out thoroughly, expertly and mistake free which is something no amount of turbotax-think can guarantee. When asked if I'm wasting thousands of dollars I just say it is easier to go to my grave knowing I paid for the best and that is all I could ask for. If I went the turbotax route I would go to my grave with doubts and uncertainty.

After seeing how simple my parents' estate was handled with me as the executor I realized what our family paid for is a bargain, just knowing everything was done right. The asset sales escrow company asked for a copy of their trust which I delivered and everything just flowed through with minimal fuss and no questions asked, just a lot of signatures at the end to all kinds of real estate related documents.

Same story with the CPA and filing my father's final tax returns. Seamless, trouble-free and very smooth. You do get what you pay for.

 

[Sunset]

That's the problem I see with all this TOD/POD stuff. Instead of having our wishes gathered up neatly in an estate plan that can often eliminate the need to update after, for example, death of a beneficiary, we would have to scurry around to a list of accounts, possibly not fast enough and possibly missing some. Simultaneous death in a common disaster of a couple using a TOD/POD scheme might also gum things up.

For simple estates, TOD/POD works well.

Sure, don't want to have too many accounts in any case and many (most) can be done online, so I don't see the problem for updates.

Here in IL it avoids probate that takes over a year to process and a lot of money... It might be the reason so many people leave IL before they die.

Unlike my Uncle, he has updated his Trust 3 times, at a cost of $1,500 each time

Complex estates and special situations, get the Works. !!

 

[rayvt]

Estate planning focused attorney is offering to do a full estate plan for $4000, including setting up a trust, powers of attorneys, health care powers of attorney, funding the trust, etc. Also this fee would include future changes to the trust as things evolve and plans change over time. Curious as to what others have paid or would expect to pay for this? Is a flat fee typical for this kind of work?

I recently talked to an outfit called https://legacyassuranceplan.com/ They would do all that stuff for a one-time fee of $3300.

I think that trusts were a good idea at one time, but changes in most state laws have better alternatives for most people. Beneficiary deed for the house ($25 to record it). Created at rocketlawyer.com for free or $25. Beneficiary title on the cars.

For brokerage and bank accounts, set beneficiary or TOD designation on the accounts (zero cost).

These keep those assets out of probate, just like a trust does.

You can get a free will as long as it is fairly simple at www.freewill.com. They can do a trust, too. Although I didn't feel a trust was necessary.

Health care POA and living will, just google it, there are plenty of template forms you can download and fill out.

Depends on how much you want to spend and how confident you are that you can do these things yourself. I did, and it isn't hard.

A local lawyer would do a will for $500 ($800 for a couple). But freewill was good enough for my needs.

 

[OldShooter]

... Depends on how much you want to spend and how confident you are that you can do these things yourself. I did, and it isn't hard. ...

And the nice thing is that any DIY errors or omissions will not be discovered until after you're dead, so you won't care. Someone else can clean things up to the extent it is possible.

 

[Dash man]

I recently talked to an outfit called https://legacyassuranceplan.com/ They would do all that stuff for a one-time fee of $3300.

I think that trusts were a good idea at one time, but changes in most state laws have better alternatives for most people. Beneficiary deed for the house ($25 to record it). Created at rocketlawyer.com for free or $25. Beneficiary title on the cars.

For brokerage and bank accounts, set beneficiary or TOD designation on the accounts (zero cost).

These keep those assets out of probate, just like a trust does.

You can get a free will as long as it is fairly simple at www.freewill.com. They can do a trust, too. Although I didn't feel a trust was necessary.

Health care POA and living will, just google it, there are plenty of template forms you can download and fill out.

Depends on how much you want to spend and how confident you are that you can do these things yourself. I did, and it isn't hard.

A local lawyer would do a will for $500 ($800 for a couple). But freewill was good enough for my needs.

Those kind of trusts or wills, or adding beneficiaries to accounts don’t take into consideration the “What ifs” that a good estate attorney can help you with.
For example, in Pennsylvania with a blended family, if a couple were both in a car accident and one spouse died on scene and the second died an hour later at the hospital, the children of the parent that was second to die would inherit everything not specifically set up with a beneficiary. Now if the first to die was a beneficiary for some property, their kids would get the inheritance. Bottom line is it all needs to be spelled out in a trust and a pour over will puts all loose ends into the trust. If a child isn’t of age or responsible enough to handle large sums, trusts can be set up with protections for that child.
A good estate attorney is worth the money.

 

[yclipse]

I do this kind of work. My impression is that the price for the current work is about $3,000, which is pretty reasonable, and about $1,000 for the updates. The lawyer appears to be charging in advance for future needs, expecting that for most clients there will not be a need to actually do much.

 

[FireDreamer]

We just finished this process and paid $5500 for a revocable trust, POA, Health Care POA, and transfer of real estate to the trust, and a will. This was a flat fee. We live in a HCOL area. We chose a law firm with multiple lawyers and local offices, they also offered lifetime changes for an additional $1500 which we did not purchase.

I felt like we overpaid, but I'm not disappointed because we have been procrastinating for 3 years!

 

[rayvt]

I know the procrastinating thing. Earlier this year I thought that we should probably get our wills updated. Searched all over the house, could not find them. Eventually did find them hidden in a box of photos that we had not opened in 3 moves.

They were dated 1985. Amusing to read. A hefty section on guardianship for our kids. The youngest of which is now 47 with a 14 year old kid. All the people we had named as guardian, primary & secondary, all all dead themselves.

Strip out that section and other obsolete parts and it was pretty close to what freewill.com gave.

 

[samcat]

We live in the Bay Area and paid over $4k maybe six years ago. We then paid $1k this year to update things now that are kids are older and settled.

With a blended family, I would definitely have a trust!

 

[FLJim]

Estate planning/wills/trusts are done in the state of residence, pursuant to the laws of that state. If we move to another state before we die, do we need to re-do everything in the new state?