Some early retirees have second thoughts

[CuppaJoe]

I was so paralyzed by fear back then that i did nothing for a year - left my investments as they were. ....

Sounds like a true success story after a rocky start. Paralysis was just the thing! same result as "staying the course" or "buy and hold." I think what was in the back of my mind then was "if you are young and/or long term, you have time to recover."

 

[CuppaJoe]

Actually, I have tossed around the idea of returning to work. Not only because of the market downturn and reduced home values (we have two propterties) but also because, at times, I feel a need to re-connect and contribute. I retired in January and enjoy the freedom very much. Even so, I think there are things yet for me to do other than volunteer work, home improvements, Costco visits to save a buck and endless vacations.

--
Purron, I've been trying to come up with something to type about this. I would imagine fostering kittens would be wonderful and rewarding but lonely. If by re-connecting you mean you enjoyed the social aspects of the j*b then maybe you would be happier going for that.

For me, one of the big pluses in leaving the j*b is that the social situation there was sucky; I like a lot of time to myself, but had too much of it there. I doubt I will ever miss the conversations with "current client in crisis."

I know the difference between a fostered kitten and a cat that is taken in from the street, you are contributing a lot doing that. What does "contribute" mean to you?

 

[Nords]

Tougher, AND more mature...

And with a longer attention span, too!

I wonder how many of us would be cool calm and collected after a day like that. (I sure as hell wasn't -I was so scared that I froze and did nothing for a whole year fortunately as it turned out)

Spouse and I were pretty excited. We skipped school that day and stayed home vacuuming the furniture for spare change to send to Fidelity. We pretty much flattened our savings account and put it into the market. 1988 turned out to be a very good year...

Yup, I saw than one coming REWahoo. It's the standard response around here for those who do or consider working again. I've read comments like this time and time again. Why is that? I doubt it's a genuine gratitude for keeping social security afloat.

Guess I expected more - like a discussion of the struggles and doubts many of us go through upon retirement. It was a mistake to look for anything other than a put down at the very idea of returning to work. Lesson learned.

OK, you want a critique, you're asking for it.

First, what the heck did you do to prepare for retirement? Did you not see the vast vistas of unoccupied time stretching out in front of you? Did you miss the hundreds of posts with the phrase "responsible for your own entertainment"? Was this all somehow unforeseen and unplanned for?

Second, and I hope this isn't your situation, but returning to work after so short a period is frequently an indicator of (1) an inadequately-capitalized ER portfolio (as CFB already mentioned) and/or (2) a suddenly-discovered intolerance for volatility. Hopefully neither of those were ER surprises to you either. I'm not accusing you of these reasons but I feel they're far more common than most retirees care to admit.

Finally, what kind of short-term thinking are you under? Eight months and you're already throwing in the towel?!? Have you already read everything that Zelinski has written? Have you nothing to learn from Nelson Bolles' "What Color Is Your Parachute For Retirement?" Have you read any of Marc Freedman's books? Have you done any introspection or other planning for your return to the working world? Are you already in peak health, in fighting trim, and ready to take on the corporate struggle again?

Or are you just seeking the comfort, security, and structured environment of the closest cubicle?

The reason I'm asking these questions is because you seem to have done some planning for ER, only to throw it away less than a year into what could be at least three decades. I'm not sure what different sort of planning you've done that would make you feel that a return to work has any better chance of success than your ER attempt. And then there's the whole issue of what you're going to do differently if you decide to ER again.

At least Walt34 is returning to work to pay for his interests. He had a [-]drug[/-] toy problem but now he makes enough money to afford them. He gets free ammunition, too.

I'm over six years into ER. I have way more things I want to attempt than I have time to properly attempt them. Some days/weeks I do such a lousy job of managing my time that I'm exhausted by 4 PM or by Tuesday evening. Heck, I don't even make the time to do as much surfing as I want. And while I don't object to the concept of paid employment, I certainly can't put up with all of the dissatisfiers that I had to endure for all my working years. I just don't get it.

Let the discussion begin.

 

[ladypatriot]

Guess I expected more - like a discussion of the struggles and doubts many of us go through upon retirement. It was a mistake to look for anything other than a put down at the very idea of returning to work. Lesson learned.

Well, with a disclaimer that I haven't been on this forum all that long so I might be dead wrong, it seems that there are prevalent themes that pervade most threads: retirement is good, a well-planned retirement is better, and an early well-planned retirement is best.

A discussion of the "struggles and doubts many....go through upon retirement" can be interpeted in different ways. Some people struggle to fill their retirement day with meaningful activities, and doubt that retirement will bring them fulfillment; so they want to discuss going back to work in some fashion, whether part-time or full-time, perhaps in a career change. For them, working brings purpose and meaning to their life that they couldn't find in retirement. This is a philosophical discussion, and there are members with strong opinions on this dilemma. Fortunately for you, those members who won't hesitate to share those strong opinions with you.

On the other hand, if the struggles and doubts are about financial security, then the issue becomes a financial discussion. More specifically, it becomes a discussion on careful financial planning for retirement. A potential retiree (early or otherwise) should consider his/her planning in light of financial market history, both the highs and the lows, and the rough waters in between.

Retirees who want to rush back to work because the market is having a hiccup, a cough or even prolonged vomiting, should consider that these financial illnesses come along every several years, and whether you'll want or need to rush back to work each time.

But I'm not an expert; heck, I'm not even really retired yet. I'm just married to a guy who has been retired for two years and whenever my financial stomach starts to lurch along with the market, DH reminds me that we could, if we needed to, live on less than half our SWR.

FWIW, the cast of characters in this forum are generally well-meaning. Some are brusque and even curmudgeonly (and you know who you are ), while others are easy-going and good-natured, some are funny, witty and often sarcastic, others seem serious and more thoughtful. But this is a forum for people who are retired, who want to retire, who want to retire early, and for people who enjoy retirement.

 

[Moemg]

Actually, I have tossed around the idea of returning to work. Not only because of the market downturn and reduced home values (we have two propterties) but also because, at times, I feel a need to re-connect and contribute. I retired in January and enjoy the freedom very much. Even so, I think there are things yet for me to do other than volunteer work, home improvements, Costco visits to save a buck and endless vacations.

I retired in Nov. 2006 and returned to work one day a week in Mar.2007 . I was financially ready but not totally mentally ready to retire . I was more concerned about social interaction since most of my friends were still working . Well in Jan. 2008 I retired for good . I was ready to get a different life . I found the gym to be a good place to meet friends and I started selling on ebay ( as a hobby not to supplement my income but it does produce some fun money ) . A lot of us that have worked most of our lives go through that feeling of lacking to contribute to society and we either get past it or we return to work and there is nothing wrong with that . Reading the board this feeling seems to affect the woman more than the men not sure why . Good Luck in whatever you choose !

 

[Bestwifeever]

If you think you should return to work, you probably should. Best to do it sooner than later (why stew over it?). You will either be relieved to be back in harness and appreciative of the paycheck or selfworth you rediscover, or you will slap yourself after a few days or weeks and say, what was I thinking? No need to defend yourself either way, imho--it's your life.

I love this board but I agree that in the past year there is much more pessimism in general (that "pessimism" looks like a dirty word ) vs. when I first started reading it three years ago--then, if you ran your numbers through firecalc, you were reassured--now, a lot of people don't trust the results to be "good enough" even though the bad times are accounted for in the projections. We were possibly a little too optimistic three years ago and possibly a lot too pessimistic now?

 

[Moemg]

If you think you should return to work, you probably should. Best to do it sooner than later (why stew over it?). You will either be relieved to be back in harness and appreciative of the paycheck or selfworth you rediscover, or you will slap yourself after a few days or weeks and say, what was I thinking? No need to defend yourself either way, imho--it's your life.

/quote]


I got to the slap myself what was I thinking stage in a few months .

 

[Bestwifeever]

I got to the slap myself what was I thinking stage in a few months .

Yeah, I slapped myself this year when I did one little freelance project and realized I only did it for pride, to tell myself I still COULD do it, and realized, hey, how old am I? I needed this stupid project to validate myself ?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Reading the board this feeling seems to affect the woman more than the men not sure why

Probably because most men wont admit when something like this bothers them.

I mean, come on...a lot of us will stand in cold water up to our waist for 4 hours in order to catch a fish we can buy at the store for $5. Whats a little disconnection from the workplace?

Certainly many of us experience a period of 'about schmidt'edness. Some of us find lives of fulfillment away from the workplace. Some identify closely with what they do for a living. Some need the organized social and financial structure a job offers.

I used to mangle up a few old sayings...'one of the worst things in the world is not getting what you really want. the worst thing in the world is getting what you want and discovering its not what you thought it would be like'.

This is an interesting, very realistic read...
Early Retirement

 

[Moemg]

Great article CFB ! Thanks for posting !

 

[mews]

Retirees who want to rush back to work because the market is having a hiccup, a cough or even prolonged vomiting, should consider that these financial illnesses come along every several years, and whether you'll want or need to rush back to work each time.

Oh, extremely well-said! You will fit right in here

ta,
mews

 

[unclemick]

Jan 1993, age 49. Went back to work 1995 for big bucks, no benefits, jobshopper, cured me of the 'going back to work idea.'

As for 'Pursuit of Happiness' - I always try to practice catch and release.

heh heh heh - .

 

[FinanceDude]

If you think you should return to work, you probably should. Best to do it sooner than later (why stew over it?). You will either be relieved to be back in harness and appreciative of the paycheck or selfworth you rediscover, or you will slap yourself after a few days or weeks and say, what was I thinking? No need to defend yourself either way, imho--it's your life.

I love this board but I agree that in the past year there is much more pessimism in general (that "pessimism" looks like a dirty word ) vs. when I first started reading it three years ago--then, if you ran your numbers through firecalc, you were reassured--now, a lot of people don't trust the results to be "good enough" even though the bad times are accounted for in the projections. We were possibly a little too optimistic three years ago and possibly a lot too pessimistic now?

Human beings are predictable, 3 years ago, we were euphoric because the market had come back so strong, money was cheap and easy to get, etc. Now the pendelum has swung the other way, and people also tend to overreact. So now EVERYONE is a bear.

 

[FinanceDude]

I mean, come on...a lot of us will stand in cold water up to our waist for 4 hours in order to catch a fish we can buy at the store for $5. Whats a little disconnection from the workplace?

Only FOUR hours? Man, you are getting soft........

Fishing for 8 hours while sitting on a plastic bucket in pouring rain when you're 9 years old? Now THAT's FUN!!!!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Only FOUR hours? Man, you are getting soft.

I guess I'm a better fisherman than you are!

 

[FinanceDude]

I guess I'm a better fisherman than you are!

I think EVERYONE was a better fisherman than I was at 9. However, I can hold my own. My dad was a musky guide in Northern Wisconsin, and passed along a few tricks..........

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Well, to be fair about the only way I could catch a fish right now is if I fell in the water and one got caught in my clothes.

But I sure did pretty well as a kid. We were always going fishing. I had an unorthodox method when I was 4/5. When I got a bite I'd get nervous and forget about reeling, and just turned and ran away from the water with the pole, dragging the hapless fish up onto land at some point.

Hey, it worked.

 

[FinanceDude]

Well, to be fair about the only way I could catch a fish right now is if I fell in the water and one got caught in my clothes.

But I sure did pretty well as a kid. We were always going fishing. I had an unorthodox method when I was 4/5. When I got a bite I'd get nervous and forget about reeling, and just turned and ran away from the water with the pole, dragging the hapless fish up onto land at some point.

Hey, it worked.

That's what my youngest kid does........

 

[audreyh1]

Actually, I have tossed around the idea of returning to work... because, at times, I feel a need to re-connect and contribute. I retired in January and enjoy the freedom very much. Even so, I think there are things yet for me to do other than volunteer work, home improvements, Costco visits to save a buck and endless vacations.

I have a hard time relating to this point of view. It implies that work is the only thing that can give life true/deep meaning. I guess I fail to see how being paid for what you spend your time doing and/or doing what other people want as opposed to what you want is somehow more meaningful or satisfying.

How is volunteer work less satisfying than paid-for work? Do you feel more valuable if you are paid? Do you feel that your efforts are worthless if you are not paid? Do people treat you with less respect or appreciation if you are not paid?

Is this an introvert/extrovert thing? Some folks have a strong need for social interaction, and being a valued part of a large organization can satisfy this need. Is a commercial concern the only way to meet that need?

Is there really nothing else to do in retirement besides volunteering, home improvement, endless vacations, and Costco visits? The subtext here seem to be - retirement is filled with essentially meaningless activities. Is that really a fundamental characteristic of retired life - doomed to meaningless activities?

No dissing here I promise. I'm just struggling to really understand. How is reconnecting and contributing connected to work exactly? Is it truly exclusive to work?

I can understand someone saying - "I really need to be part of something larger than myself." Fair enough. Then the next step, now that you marvelously no longer need to actually earn a living, is to figure out what would be the neatest, coolest big "thing" you could be a part of, since salary is no longer a critical factor.

Nothing wrong with going back to work as part of the process of trying to discover what it is you really want to do with the rest of your life. Even if someone hasn't done all his "homework" as listed in Nords' post, going back to work will certainly help clarify quite few murky issues, I imagine. Nothing wrong with multiple attempts to figure out what to do with the rest of your life. It's a process. Each of us has to find our own path through life - there is no one way.

Audrey

 

[REWahoo]

That's what my youngest kid does........

Although the chances are remote that he's afflicted with whatever caused CFB to turn out the way he did, I'd get the kid checked out. Stat.

 

[Moemg]

I have a hard time relating to this point of view. It implies that work is the only thing that can give life true/deep meaning. I guess I fail to see how being paid for what you spend your time doing and/or doing what other people want as opposed to what you want is somehow more meaningful or satisfying.

How is volunteer work less satisfying than paid-for work? Do you feel more valuable if you are paid? Do you feel that your efforts are worthless if you are not paid? Do people treat you with less respect or appreciation if you are not paid?

.

Audrey

For me the reason I returned to work because it was familiar and easier than figuring out how to remake my life minus the huge aspects work filled . That return to work helped solidlfy my decision that enough was enough.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Although the chances are remote that he's afflicted with whatever caused CFB to turn out the way he did, I'd get the kid checked out. Stat.

Yeah, you dont want him growing up to become a wildly successful multimillionaire before he's 39 or anything like that!

I'm just pleased to see that a method that worked 43 years ago still works today.

 

[audreyh1]

For me the reason I returned to work because it was familiar and easier than figuring out how to remake my life minus the huge aspects work filled . That return to work helped solidlfy my decision that enough was enough.

Yeah, that was what I figured would happen to many folks who decide to try work again. Maybe you start thinking "Surely there is a better way?......"?

It's true. Retirement does kind of force you to "remake your life". You do have to take a lot more responsibility for your living, day to day as well as the big picture.

Audrey

 

[Midpack]

I have a hard time relating to this point of view. It implies that work is the only thing that can give life true/deep meaning. I guess I fail to see how being paid for what you spend your time doing and/or doing what other people want as opposed to what you want is somehow more meaningful or satisfying.

I can understand someone saying - "I really need to be part of something larger than myself." Fair enough. Then the next step, now that you marvelously no longer need to actually earn a living, is to figure out what would be the neatest, coolest big "thing" you could be a part of, since salary is no longer a critical factor.

Audrey

Deja vu. It doesn't imply that, no one said work is the the "only thing"...

While I'll concede it's the exception (and you're evidently from the unhappy majority) --- why do you think it's impossible to be paid for doing the "neatest, coolest big 'thing' you could be a part of?" There are lots of public figures (actors, athletes, authors, CEO's) who are on record saying 'they can't believe they get paid (a lot) to do what they love - and even say they would do it for free.' And there are people in all walks of life who feel the same way, most are just not quoted celebrities. I've known quite a few, you've never met anyone who didn't love their (paid) job?

My second career will be more about what enjoy doing and less about how much it pays, but I'll still get paid...

 

[Purron]

Hey everyone,

I truly appreciate all of your comments. I don't know if I will return to work, but have thought about it particularly since a very interesting opportunity has recently come my way. It's a position which pays very well, involves fastinating work, and provides an chance to do something really important. It was strange it came my way at this particular time.

I know many of you think I'm out of my mind for thinking about work again since there is no real financial need to do so. Sure, DH and I have been concerned, like most folks, to see our net worth go down. Even so, we realize it's really just a dip in our long term financial picture and there's no reason to panic.

At this point, I am leaning towards applying for the position and see what happens. There's a good chance going into an office setting again will send me running for the door. If that happens, I just return to being a early retiree knowing it just wasn't meant to be.

I hope you all have a great Labor Day weekend. I will be thinking of everyone in Gustav's potential path and hoping next week we are all talking about how it was no big deal.

Purron