Buying a Prius

[SteveL]

There are Prius taxis in Vancouver, CA, that have over 180,000 miles with no battery problem. You can prob buy a used prius from someone now that gas prices have dropped, and lots of folks have money problems.

 

[chinaco]

Andy. You might consider holding off if you can or have not purchased yet. I suspect that next year there will be a larger tax incentive to make that type of purchase.

Plus with gas prices back down... you will not see any benefit till prices rise again (and they probably will rise again).


Of course, if you need a replacement... you might be forced to do something.


We recently bought a vehicle and decided on a compact that gets about 25/33 mpg. DW drives it around town. We have another compact car that gets about the same that is about 6.5 years old. I will probably replace it in 4 or 5 years with a Hybrid. Short of some other technology breakthrough... hybrids are probably the best solution for fuel economy.

 

[Zathras]

You will love the smart key option if you get that.
No need to fish the keys out of your pocket to unlock the car or to start it Gas mileage aside, I would have bought the car just for that.
Mileage all depends upon your driving habits. I have heard of people getting as low as 38mpg and as high as 70mpg.
The immediate feedback of your fuel efficiency is a great help. I wish all cars had something like it.
If you get a plug in conversion you can get as high as 125mpg on trips under 15-20 miles.

 

[Nords]

I think the battery issue is somewhat over stated. These batteries are not used like a laptop where they are exposed to full charge and discharge cycles.

Sshhhh! Once people stop worrying about the batteries they'll drive up the price!!

For those concerned about a Prius' mechanical complexity, I'd take its drivetrain over an automatic transmission any day. And the brake system is an engineer's dream design.

 

[RustyShackleford]

S
For those concerned about a Prius' mechanical complexity, I'd take its drivetrain over an automatic transmission any day. And the brake system is an engineer's dream design.

I've never heard a cogent explanation (but I bet you could give one ...)
of why these cars don't just run the wheels completely with electric
motors which are powered in turn by a fossil-fuel engine driving a
generator, much like a diesel-electric locomotive. And some batteries
to allow plug-in use. Seems a lot simpler.

 

[Yankees Rule]

Honda Civic 4 door LX 17,600 brand new, 40+ mpg highway 37 city all the time. Comfortable and pretty safe for a small car. Get one.

 

[ERD50]

I've never heard a cogent explanation (but I bet you could give one ...)
of why these cars don't just run the wheels completely with electric
motors which are powered in turn by a fossil-fuel engine driving a
generator, much like a diesel-electric locomotive. And some batteries
to allow plug-in use. Seems a lot simpler.

That is what the Chevy Volt will be doing. It's called a "series hybrid" design, the Prius is a "parallel hybrid". For marketing purposes, to distinguish itself from the present hybrids, Chevy is calling it an "Extended Range Electric Vehicle" - which it is.

The reason present cars don't do it that way is that it takes a very large battery pack to fully power the vehicle. That is a big, expensive battery pack. Presently, the battery pack in a Prius only assists the ICE. Of course, the electric motor must be larger also, but that isn't a limiting factor, the batteries are. The Volt may be priced out of reach for most people because of that big battery pack, we will see.

-ERD50

 

[Andy R]

Some of you might find the Series Hybrid type propulsion concept interesting in the way they are using it for marine applications. Here is a link to a manufacturer that is doing this:
The Catamaran Company - Hybrid Catamarans

All Lagoon 420s coming out of the Lagoon Factory will be standardized on the new propulsions system, which typically require only one simple bearing change per 20,000 hours.

Complete installation comprises of two electric motors connected to propellers by straight shaft transmissions, one generator and two set of 6 batteries. When batteries are 100 % charged, the boat will be able to function with both motors for approximately two hours (depending on speed).

 

[FinanceDude]

There's a fuel cell called the FCX Clarity made by Honda that's being tested in the LA area. It looks promising, runs on hydrogen.......

 

[ERD50]

It looks promising, runs on hydrogen.......

That's an oxymoron.

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

That's an oxymoron.

-ERD50

Here's a few more:

jumbo shrimp
customer service
near miss with a nuclear weapon
almost pregnant
Presidential leadership
Congressional oversight

I could go ON and ON.........

 

[W2R]

Andy, fuel economy and price aside, I think the Prius looks really FUN to drive.

I probably wouldn't buy it for practical reasons (since I don't drive much, and since I think a Corolla is a better value), but if I had one I think I would love driving it.

I also like the design. So sue me, everyone - - but it's so ungodly cute!! I would get a red one.

 

[Andy R]

I agree it would not be 100% for the price or the overall cost of ownership/mile but I also like the looks, the size and happen to trust consumer reports and many of the other publications that continue to rank the car #1 for owner satisfaction, that says a lot to me. I happen to like either silver, gold or white for the color. We'll see if there are any deals when I get back home. I am also considering a new tow vehicle for my Airstream so hopefully the darn incentives on the bigger SUVs won't sidetrack my attention. I have been hot for a Prius for years...

 

[kathyet]

I agree it would not be 100% for the price or the overall cost of ownership/mile but I also like the looks, the size and happen to trust consumer reports and many of the other publications that continue to rank the car #1 for owner satisfaction, that says a lot to me. I happen to like either silver, gold or white for the color. We'll see if there are any deals when I get back home. I am also considering a new tow vehicle for my Airstream so hopefully the darn incentives on the bigger SUVs won't sidetrack my attention. I have been hot for a Prius for years...

We have a 2007 Prius and love it. We get 44 to 45m per gallon and we have the air on most of the time we always use the filtered air for allergys and smog heat or what ever..we live in Nevada and drove it to San Diego we did a total of 1200 miles filled up the gas three times($3.50 per gallon or about that) on our trip were there for 9 days and the total cost was $95.00..we drove over to Conronado Island every day to dog beach. The cars size is about the same as a Camary it isn't a real small car the back seats go down pretty flush lots of room for our two Austrailian Sheperds that came with us plus luggage...

Our dealer calls us at least once a month to try and buy it back because there having trouble getting them in and keeping them in stock..and said it is worth more than we paid for it right now...it is fun to drive and very quiet has good pickup if and when it is needed..we can find no complaints about it ..the cost was $25700 it was one step below the top of the line it has bluetooth but not the GPS...

Kathyet (Happy Prius Owner)

 

[ERD50]

happen to trust consumer reports and many of the other publications that continue to rank the car #1 for owner satisfaction, that says a lot to me.

I'd take that with a grain of salt.

Many Prius buyers bought it as a symbol of "green-ness" or to make a statement, or whatever. That's fine, but I'd bet their assessment of the car is not as objective as many owners of more conventional cars. Are they in love with the car because it is so great, or do they think it is so great because they fell in love with the car?

On the audio forums, the guys who bought the $10,000 speaker cables really do think they are far superior sounding to the $5,000 speaker cables. And they are correct (they really do *think* they are superior sounding).

Hey, it may be a great car regardless, I'd just throw some added skepticism on owner reports because of that.

-ERD50

 

[kyounge1956]

I'd take that with a grain of salt.

Many Prius buyers bought it as a symbol of "green-ness" or to make a statement, or whatever. That's fine, but I'd bet their assessment of the car is not as objective as many owners of more conventional cars. Are they in love with the car because it is so great, or do they think it is so great because they fell in love with the car? (snip)

Hey, it may be a great car regardless, I'd just throw some added skepticism on owner reports because of that.

-ERD50

Doesn't that apply equally to many other cars? The person who buys an expensive luxury car to display their affluence or the person who buys a Hummer or a hot sportscar to display their--whatever--are also probably influenced in their assessment of their car by these non-objective reasons behind their selection. But the repair record doesn't lie and apparently the Prius has a good one. I know mine has only been in the shop twice in the two-plus years I've had it, and that was for scheduled oil changes.

However, to leaven my on the whole glowing evaluation of the car I will add that:
(1) it has lousy rear visibility due to the slanting roofline and divided rear window

(2) bodywork on the car may be very expensive. I sideswiped a parked truck while backing into my driveway and put a rather minor dent in the side of mine (see #1 above) and the repair was estimated at $1500. I don't know how that compares to bodywork on other cars nowadays. I do know that 12 years ago I had my old Tercel completely refurbished and repainted—made just about like new from 17 years of "slings and arrows" plus major damage from being hit while parked by a drunk driver—for less than 3x the cost of repairing this single dent in my Prius.

(3) If I knew then what I know now I would want to have cruise control. I often look down and find myself going nearly 70 or even faster without really noticing or intending to go that fast. The car really steps along! But that is not optimal for gas mileage or for keeping my car insurance rates low. One of these days the Washington State Patrol is going to catch me at it and then bye-bye good driver discount. When I bought the car I don't think you could get cruise control by itself. The options were not offered separately but in "packages". In 2006 the least expensive package was the side airbags only, which is the one I chose, but I think after that the side airbags became standard and then, to get one option you wanted, you probably had to take, and pay extra for, several additional options that you might not want, in order to get it. But this is only the second car I've bought in my life. They may all have the options in these "packages" and not allow you to chose just the ones you really want or need. So that may not be a specific Prius gripe but just how cars are sold nowadays.

 

[kathyet]

Doesn't that apply equally to many other cars? The person who buys an expensive luxury car to display their affluence or the person who buys a Hummer or a hot sportscar to display their--whatever--are also probably influenced in their assessment of their car by these non-objective reasons behind their selection. But the repair record doesn't lie and apparently the Prius has a good one. I know mine has only been in the shop twice in the two-plus years I've had it, and that was for scheduled oil changes.

However, to leaven my on the whole glowing evaluation of the car I will add that:
(1) it has lousy rear visibility due to the slanting roofline and divided rear window

(2) bodywork on the car may be very expensive. I sideswiped a parked truck while backing into my driveway and put a rather minor dent in the side of mine (see #1 above) and the repair was estimated at $1500. I don't know how that compares to bodywork on other cars nowadays. I do know that 12 years ago I had my old Tercel completely refurbished and repainted—made just about like new from 17 years of "slings and arrows" plus major damage from being hit while parked by a drunk driver—for less than 3x the cost of repairing this single dent in my Prius.

(3) If I knew then what I know now I would want to have cruise control. I often look down and find myself going nearly 70 or even faster without really noticing or intending to go that fast. The car really steps along! But that is not optimal for gas mileage or for keeping my car insurance rates low. One of these days the Washington State Patrol is going to catch me at it and then bye-bye good driver discount. When I bought the car I don't think you could get cruise control by itself. The options were not offered separately but in "packages". In 2006 the least expensive package was the side airbags only, which is the one I chose, but I think after that the side airbags became standard and then, to get one option you wanted, you probably had to take, and pay extra for, several additional options that you might not want, in order to get it. But this is only the second car I've bought in my life. They may all have the options in these "packages" and not allow you to chose just the ones you really want or need. So that may not be a specific Prius gripe but just how cars are sold nowadays.

When we got our car there were option packages basic and then ,3,4,5, I think it would have cost more to buy the basic and add things it was easier to just go with the package we wanted.


ERD50
We love our car we didn't get it to be in with anything or anyone we got tired of paying higher gas price's, apparently we were not the only ones either they fly out of the lots as soon as they get a new shipment in. There is a very long waiting line and they are having a hard time trying to fill the orders. Glad we got ours when we did.

We also have a Honda Accord V6 which we like but we use the Prius a lot more.


Kathyet

 

[kyounge1956]

When we got our car there were option packages basic and then ,3,4,5, I think it would have cost more to buy the basic and add things it was easier to just go with the package we wanted. (snip)

Kathyet

Easier, yeah, but not better IMO. It's like buying "mixed nuts". If you like peanuts, cashews, macadamias, etc then maybe mixed nuts are OK. If you only want the cashews, a good bit of what you're paying for is stuff you don't want anyway, and I don't think that's ever a good deal although sometimes there isn't any other way to get what you're after. I'd have been pretty steamed if I'd had to pay thousands extra for a "package" of (say) bluetooth, GPS, satellite radio, enhanced speakers and airbags, when all I really wanted was the airbags.

But fortuntely, I didn't!

 

[Nords]

I've never heard a cogent explanation (but I bet you could give one ...)
of why these cars don't just run the wheels completely with electric
motors which are powered in turn by a fossil-fuel engine driving a
generator, much like a diesel-electric locomotive. And some batteries
to allow plug-in use. Seems a lot simpler.

I love a challenge, but I've already had that explained to me. John1701 and Hobbit at PriusChat.com have spent way too much of their lives reverse-engineering the car.

You could do a series drive. Mechanically simpler, although current battery technology doesn't support much of a plug-in range or battery lifecycle in a power density that fits the Prius. (50-100 miles, ~18-month replacements.) Despite a plug-in's cheap recharge, batteries just don't seem cost-effective in a consumer-friendly vehicle. But they're close.

But a parallel drive is more efficient. As another poster mentioned, the Prius runs the internal-combustion engine (ICE) in parallel with a motor generator (MG) on a common axis. The ICE does most of the work (which is more efficient without a plug-in) but the MG smooths out the power curve (charging or discharging the battery) and helps the engine with acceleration. (The MG also handles regenerative braking-- no brake shoes are applied unless you really stomp on the brake pedal or until you're below 7 mph.) The ICE operates when needed, most of the time at its most fuel-efficient RPM, and shuts off as soon as it's not needed. The MG fills in the acceleration/deceleration until the engine catches up. The result is a higher power density with no idling wasting gas.

I can't call it simpler. Depending on who's counting the car has over a dozen microprocessors running the accelerator, brakes, battery-charging circuits, MG/ICE, and even the air conditioning. But the design has eliminated a ton of mechanical linkages that were always breaking on our other cars, and the digital cruise control has zero analog-system lag. I'd have to check, but I'm not sure that the car even has an accelerator linkage/cable.

It's not perfect. It's overpriced due to demand, and resale values are ridiculously high. Dealers are generally smug and unsympathetic to customer concerns. The rear-window visibility is oxymoronic. The rear-seat headrests can block the driver's rear-fender blind spots, and they scared the heck out of me when I first checked my peripheral vision for a lane change. The front window needs a lot more tint for sunny weather. The windscreen cover has to be custom-ordered or cut from an oversized roll of reflective foil insulation. The oilpan is exposed to everything sticking up from the road. Tires have a reputation for wearing out more quickly. If you damage the touch-screen display then it's $500-$1000 and it's most inconvenient to attempt to operate the car without it. Lost/damaged keyfobs cost $125-$250 to replace. The antenna sits right where I want to put my longboard roof rack. The rear speakers are muffled by their rear-door panel location. The front speakers are practically in your face on the front door posts.

It's not protected against the silliest common mistakes-- if you accidentally switch the jumper-cable polarity then you'll fry the $5K DC/AC inverter. If you tow the car from behind (with the front wheels on the ground) then similar electrical/mechanical damage can occur. The smart-key system makes it too easy to walk away from a running car with the key in your pocket, especially if you've just switched drivers.

Although the car has a very good warranty at face value, Toyota seems to be very stingy about warranty work and quick to blame mechanics for errors.

But other than that, I'm happy!

 

[FinanceDude]

I love a challenge, but I've already had that explained to me. John1701 and Hobbit at PriusChat.com have spent way too much of their lives reverse-engineering the car.

You could do a series drive. Mechanically simpler, although current battery technology doesn't support much of a plug-in range or battery lifecycle in a power density that fits the Prius. (50-100 miles, ~18-month replacements.) Despite a plug-in's cheap recharge, batteries just don't seem cost-effective in a consumer-friendly vehicle. But they're close.

But a parallel drive is more efficient. As another poster mentioned, the Prius runs the internal-combustion engine (ICE) in parallel with a motor generator (MG) on a common axis. The ICE does most of the work (which is more efficient without a plug-in) but the MG smooths out the power curve (charging or discharging the battery) and helps the engine with acceleration. (The MG also handles regenerative braking-- no brake shoes are applied unless you really stomp on the brake pedal or until you're below 7 mph.) The ICE operates when needed, most of the time at its most fuel-efficient RPM, and shuts off as soon as it's not needed. The MG fills in the acceleration/deceleration until the engine catches up. The result is a higher power density with no idling wasting gas.

I can't call it simpler. Depending on who's counting the car has over a dozen microprocessors running the accelerator, brakes, battery-charging circuits, MG/ICE, and even the air conditioning. But the design has eliminated a ton of mechanical linkages that were always breaking on our other cars, and the digital cruise control has zero analog-system lag. I'd have to check, but I'm not sure that the car even has an accelerator linkage/cable.

It's not perfect. It's overpriced due to demand, and resale values are ridiculously high. Dealers are generally smug and unsympathetic to customer concerns. The rear-window visibility is oxymoronic. The rear-seat headrests can block the driver's rear-fender blind spots, and they scared the heck out of me when I first checked my peripheral vision for a lane change. The front window needs a lot more tint for sunny weather. The windscreen cover has to be custom-ordered or cut from an oversized roll of reflective foil insulation. The oilpan is exposed to everything sticking up from the road. Tires have a reputation for wearing out more quickly. If you damage the touch-screen display then it's $500-$1000 and it's most inconvenient to attempt to operate the car without it. Lost/damaged keyfobs cost $125-$250 to replace. The antenna sits right where I want to put my longboard roof rack. The rear speakers are muffled by their rear-door panel location. The front speakers are practically in your face on the front door posts.

It's not protected against the silliest common mistakes-- if you accidentally switch the jumper-cable polarity then you'll fry the $5K DC/AC inverter. If you tow the car from behind (with the front wheels on the ground) then similar electrical/mechanical damage can occur. The smart-key system makes it too easy to walk away from a running car with the key in your pocket, especially if you've just switched drivers.

Although the car has a very good warranty at face value, Toyota seems to be very stingy about warranty work and quick to blame mechanics for errors.

But other than that, I'm happy!

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50
I'd take that with a grain of salt.

....but I'd bet their assessment of the car is not as objective as many owners of more conventional cars. Are they in love with the car because it is so great, or do they think it is so great because they fell in love with the car? (snip)

-ERD50

Doesn't that apply equally to many other cars? The person who buys an expensive luxury car to display their affluence or the person who buys a Hummer or a hot sportscar to display their--whatever-- ....

Oh yes - it's true of almost all purchases, but especially of ones that "make a statement". But I think it could be even more so with a Prius, as there are not so many other options in that category. So people looking to make that statement buy that car. The Hummer is probably a similar example of that, just a different statement.

And I only meant that as relative to other cars and as a tendency, not that every Prius buyer's opinion is overly-biased.

BTW, I know someone who has a family member who works for a company that supplies parts for Hummers. Several years ago, they had a Hummer on loan for a week. She proudly told me "You should have seen the looks we got driving that around the neighborhood!". In a rare moment of self control, I refrained from explaining to her what they were probably thinking!

-ERD50

 

[kyounge1956]

....but I'd bet their assessment of the car is not as objective as many owners of more conventional cars. Are they in love with the car because it is so great, or do they think it is so great because they fell in love with the car? (snip) -ERD50

Doesn't that apply equally to many other cars? The person who buys an expensive luxury car to display their affluence or the person who buys a Hummer or a hot sportscar to display their--whatever--

Oh yes - it's true of almost all purchases, but especially of ones that "make a statement". But I think it could be even more so with a Prius, as there are not so many other options in that category. So people looking to make that statement buy that car. The Hummer is probably a similar example of that, just a different statement.

And I only meant that as relative to other cars and as a tendency, not that every Prius buyer's opinion is overly-biased.

My thought was that all those subjective reasons would cancel one another out, making the "customer satisfaction" numbers more or less accurate.

BTW, I know someone who has a family member who works for a company that supplies parts for Hummers. Several years ago, they had a Hummer on loan for a week. She proudly told me "You should have seen the looks we got driving that around the neighborhood!". In a rare moment of self control, I refrained from explaining to her what they were probably thinking! -ERD50

Confession time! (unfortunately you don't seem to have a :blushing: smiley available here) I know when I drive past a Hummer, I think to myself, even if you had three people in there I'd still be getting better mpg/person than you are! My younger brother (who has one exactly like mine, even the same color) said that on one of the TV cartoon shows (maybe "The Simpsons"?) a character sighted several Priuses driving past, and exclaimed "Smug Alert!" I'm afraid I'm guilty as charged on that one.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Mechanically simpler, although current battery technology doesn't support much of a plug-in range or battery lifecycle in a power density that fits the Prius.

ERD50 said this too, but I don't quite understand. My understanding
is people regularly convert Prius to plug-in mode. That means its
batteries can support power output sufficient to drive the car (unless
the conversion actually adds batteries ?) So I don't see why it would
need more batteries for "series hybrid" operation, although obviously
the ICE would have to run for drives longer than a short commute.

But the design has eliminated a ton of mechanical linkages that were always breaking on our other cars

Really, like what ?

 

[Zathras]

The PHEVs still don't run the car on 100% battery for very long.
The stock Prius has an all electric range of 7-9 miles.
The conversions do add batteries (about 5Kw worth).
The PHEV conversion basically gives the gas engine more of an assist, the batteries don't take all the load.

 

[FinanceDude]

We need a seperate thread on Hummers...........