response to Doug Thorburn review
A copy of my letter to Doug Thorburn;
Doug Thorburn, EA, CFP
Dear Doug,
Your critique of Douglas Andrew’s book and strategies, would be good, if for one thing; Doug’s clients, for almost 30 years, are very happy and making far more ‘spendable’ retirement income than they could have otherwise accumulated. His clients own history, is proof it works, and very well.
Yes he used generalizations; he was teaching a strategy, a concept, not designing a plan for a specific client, where there are specific numbers to consider.
I am writing because I think your intentions were honest and forthright. But, when you started out, rather honestly saying at page 5 you were against it, it was clear your paradigms got in the way, and after that, you were reading only with the intent of debunking the concept all together.
I will grant, I think the book could use a rewrite in some areas, but the concepts are solid, in application it's not as simple as in the book.
Except for those who cannot let go of paradigms and let their training and education get in the way of their ability to learn a new concept. It is an informative and thought provoking book.
Might I recommend you meet Doug, and spend some time with him designing a specific strategy using real life examples? I think you would increase your options to help your own clients.
The strategy does not work for every client, but it works well for many, and works extremely well for many others. And yes there are those abusing the strategy and harming clients, that is altogether another issue. Unfortunately this happens with mutual funds, stocks, real estate… et. al. the problem is the agent, not the strategy.
I for one, have a life policy started in 1982 with New York Life. It today has more cash than my stock market investments, and will give a greater net (after tax) income in retirement, and yet it has had less cash placed into it than my stocks. It’s the taxes during retirement causing this.
And a ROTH is a great idea, if not for all the limitations on contributions… and I do recommend my clients max their ROTH every year, then fund other investments. But it is not enough to retire on.
I read every comment I can find on the web, often I ask to meet the author of the post or review, and not a single person as taken me up on my offer to meet and discuss it all with Doug. I hope you are the first.
Doug will be here in LA with me, June 19th, might we all meet for dinner?
Kevin Brunner
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To the bloggers here; your examples of actuaries and others who don't use or disagree with the strategy... is likened to doctors living an average 5 years less then their patients... (following their own advice shortens their life) But I'm sure you'll have some terrific replies to that metaphor as well...
No one condones the strategy for everyone, and you should not have all your money in any one thing... And I don't believe most of you would agree with it, if God himself appeared to you and approved of it... (there's another one for your replies) I have however been entertained at your hostility, but I was hoping for more constructive comments. There have been a few.
I'd like to attach a financial plan (names changed) for your comments... but the file size even as a PDF is large and... I'm not convinced I get an honest critique here anyway... So I won't bother... Most people deny the returns in it anyway (although the companies histories are in favor of the projected returns) new ideas and concepts seem to be painful to some folks... so they call you names instead...
Doug Andrew's site has tremendous resources, I would recommend you read...
MF-01 Home
Doug Andrew stopped commenting on most peoples critiques, as all the evidence he provides still does not effect their opinion, so why waste the time. And this will be my last post here as well....
And I say again, you were right, this is not a good place for these discussions.... I have however found other areas of this site interesting... As Missed Fortune is not the only thing I do for my clients....
And I do honestly wish you all the best in your portfolio returns... I hope you retire well...