a will or living trust question

[jeffd]

Hi, long time lurker here joined a while back but mostly just lurk. I retired 2 years ago on a very tight non-planned retirement but it's going ok.

So my questions are this, I am 66 divorced long time with 3 grown kids and I W
have no will or trust and I know I need to fix that.
Which one should I be looking at or should I get both? And about how much does it cost?

I really don't have much, it's just 2 retirement accounts one house (paid for)
one car (paid for) and misc. stuff. End of life decisions etc.

I have talked to my kids and all assets will be split 3 ways after everything is sold.

So long way around the park is what would be my best and most cost effective way to go? Thanks for any help

 

[Bamaman]

Your most cost effective way would to buy NOLO's Willmaker Plus. It produces a 50 state legal will customized for your state. And even if you don't use it to prepare your will, the tutorial about wills trusts and all subjects is worth the money alone. You can order it on Amazon.

On your retirement accounts, make sure the 3 kids are setup as the beneficiaries equally--to keep it out of the estate. And as long as you own the real estate, the estate will have to be probated.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Trusts can be useful in some situations but the truth is that they are money makers for attorneys. I am on a attorney-only forum and overwhelmingly, they are not recommended in MOST circumstances. The only two exceptions that I have noted from those members is that they can be useful in California and also if you have dependents that are special needs.

As far as doing it yourself...if your financial/holdings is pretty simple, then probably no issue. However, if you have kids and/or complex situations (kids with an ex-spouse as an example), then it can get complex very quickly even if it seems easy. There can be a lot of landmines for a poorly constructed will. I am a licensed attorney (non practicing) with a fairly simple estate (no kids) but we STILL had our wills drawn up by a competent estate planning attorney.

Your most cost effective way would to buy NOLO's Willmaker Plus. It produces a 50 state legal will customized for your state. And even if you don't use it to prepare your will, the tutorial about wills trusts and all subjects is worth the money alone. You can order it on Amazon.

On your retirement accounts, make sure the 3 kids are setup as the beneficiaries equally--to keep it out of the estate. And as long as you own the real estate, the estate will have to be probated.

I am NOT calling out Bamaman personally here, but I am using this as an example why asking for legal advice from strangers may not be a great idea. The highlighted portion may apply for SOME locations, but is not the case in many states (including mine). There are several types deeds that can be used to circumvent the probate requirement when it comes to real estate.

 

[jeffd]

ok thanks you guys for the help, yea it's a pretty small estate, 2 accounts at VG 1 at Schwab,house and car. Just want it to be a simple affair when I'm gone, so probably just a will? and yes I will find a professional to write it up. under a $1000.00 you think?

 

[Jerry1]

Our will and trust cost just over $2K. We didn’t shop around, but I’d think you could do a little better if you shopped.

 

[rodi]

As mentioned - the retirement accounts should pass to your heirs through the beneficiary settings on the accounts. So no need to worry about them in your will/trust.

Some states (most?) allow a POD (payable on death) setting on bank accounts - if you can do that - then the bank account could be taken care of outside a probate/will/trust. The car and house are the other assets that need attention.

Given your simplicity of assets... and the fact that your kids are grown (vs minors) ... a will seems appropriate. Trust is probably overkill.

But I am not a lawyer (IANAL) , just some gal on the internet (JSGOTI).

 

[CRLLS]

I am a fan and user of the NOLO WillMaker package. There is nothing wrong with it. It can handle simple and complex wills and trusts. Where all estate documents fail is how well the executor or trustee interprets them. The more complex the document, the less chance the executor(s) and/or trustee(s) will be able to execute the deceased's wishes. I personally am watching in action with family members trying to deal with a rather basic Will and Trust.

You can have the best attorney draw up documents that are useless unless they are followed properly. This is especially important when the estate goes through a "small estate" process.

 

[FutureFIRE]

Our local credit union offers a package to help you get setup with estate planning which would include a will with a local attorney. If you are a member it may be worth checking out. For our local bank it is $399.

We will be going in April/May timeline to get ours done through them.

 

[pjm-7]

You did not mention if you have any grandchildren. Consider adding "per stirpes" to the beneficiary designation so that if one of your children dies then that child's portion will go to his/hers children. Without the "per stirpes" that portion would go to the the two surviving children and those grandchildren get zero.

 

[OldShooter]

The nice thing about DIY estate planning is you will never know about any mistakes.

 

[SecondCor521]

The nice thing about DIY estate planning is you will never know about any mistakes.

This is also true of professional estate planning.

I would agree that the probability of DIY errors is greater than professional errors.

 

[athena53]

Trusts can be useful in some situations but the truth is that they are money makers for attorneys. I am on a attorney-only forum and overwhelmingly, they are not recommended in MOST circumstances. The only two exceptions that I have noted from those members is that they can be useful in California and also if you have dependents that are special needs.

I have a Trust and sometimes I feel like it's more trouble than it's worth but DS, my only child, will need guidance in managing and spending what I leave behind. He's smart and thrifty but has little interest in investing, so my brother the CPA is a Trustee and DS can be if he wants to. Dad died recently and the assets in his trust (he owned no real estate) got distributed quickly (less than 2 months). The checking account is now going through probate and that will take time even though my brothers have kept scrupulous records and made sure all the bills were paid.

Another vote for Nolo- I used their DIY wills years ago when my first husband could not be dragged to an attorney's office. I'd worked for attorneys over summers in college and they did a lot of estate work. While I am NOT an attorney I thought Nolo did a good job of going through questions and explaining the implications, then generating a will from your answers.

One note from back then- Louisiana estate law is based on the Napoleonic Code and Nolo specifically said that their wills were not valid in LA. That may have changed.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

One note from back then- Louisiana estate law is based on the Napoleonic Code and Nolo specifically said that their wills were not valid in LA. That may have changed.

Yep. Louisiana is a whole 'nother crazy when it comes to law. A HS friend of mine went to LSU for law school and then took the Georgia bar...he was not impressed with the differences.

 

[silvor]

With a will, leaving the house to the kids requires a majority to sell.

If there’s just one trustee, it’s up to the trustee. They may get along fine now, but add in spouses, grandkids etc, it can get messy fast. I know.

 

[Which Roger]

What I'm gathering from this thread is that a trust may be appropriate in some non-straightforward situations, but DW and I have a pretty straightforward situation - no kids, stepkids, exes, grandkids, or dependents of any sort. No complex assets (just house, personal property, and various retirement and non-retirement accounts). The financial assets are the majority of our net worth and can be conveyed by beneficiary designations and the like. Most of what we have will go to charities, and some to siblings/nieces/nephews/friends as we see fit. So based on what I'm reading, it sounds like we don't really need a trust. Thoughts?

 

[CincyDave]

Trusts can be useful in some situations but the truth is that they are money makers for attorneys. I am on a attorney-only forum and overwhelmingly, they are not recommended in MOST circumstances. The only two exceptions that I have noted from those members is that they can be useful in California and also if you have dependents that are special needs.

As far as doing it yourself...if your financial/holdings is pretty simple, then probably no issue. However, if you have kids and/or complex situations (kids with an ex-spouse as an example), then it can get complex very quickly even if it seems easy. There can be a lot of landmines for a poorly constructed will. I am a licensed attorney (non practicing) with a fairly simple estate (no kids) but we STILL had our wills drawn up by a competent estate planning attorney.



I am NOT calling out Bamaman personally here, but I am using this as an example why asking for legal advice from strangers may not be a great idea. The highlighted portion may apply for SOME locations, but is not the case in many states (including mine). There are several types deeds that can be used to circumvent the probate requirement when it comes to real estate.

Here is a link which tell which states allow transfer on death for real estate to avoid probate. OP's profile indicate he is in MN which does allow this.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/avoid-probate-book/chapter5-1.html

 

[tulak]

I’m going through this right now, since I need to update my will. I was quoted $1200-$1500 for a new will, which seems expensive for what I need. All my assets will be split evenly between my two adult children and most accounts won’t go through probate. My situation is not complicated, which is why I’m leaning towards using a software package.

 

[pacergal]

A couple years ago, we spent about $1000 to have an attorney update our wills, trust, healthcare directive, etc.
Well worth it, as she made sure we got it done correctly this time. (There were issues found with our original ones done by a lawyer friend/neighbor. Learned my lesson there!)

 

[OldShooter]

... I was quoted $1200-$1500 for a new will, which seems expensive ...

As a % of the assets to be managed and protected what is it?

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I’m going through this right now, since I need to update my will. I was quoted $1200-$1500 for a new will, which seems expensive for what I need. All my assets will be split evenly between my two adult children and most accounts won’t go through probate. My situation is not complicated, which is why I’m leaning towards using a software package.

That does seem a bit high, but legal pricing can be all over the map. Lots of variables that can drive up (or down) the price. I don't know of a single attorney that does a basic will and prices it according to assets. Not saying this doesn't happen, but in my state that would probably be considered unethical or at least get the attorney a phone call from the ethics folks.

 

[H2ODude]

We had the wills, healthcare directives, POA's done about 7 years ago, relatively simple stuff, cost $1,000. Sure it could have been done with a program, but that could be eaten up many times over if something was wrong. Well known lawyer, and when it came time to sign he just called in the notaries in the firm and it was all done.

My only concern now is having read as many horror stories about Covid patients that were highly unlikely to ever return to decent quality of life were put through to delay death for weeks or months, want to review what the healthcare directive says.

 

[jeffd]

I want to say thank you to all who responded. I went to the library and checked out a few of the NOLO books and have just started reading them, at first glance it looks like a will would probably be good enough for me. Like I said it's a pretty small estate but I'll read through the books and look for an attorney to actually wright it up. Many thanks for the help, now just wishing this winter would end!!

 

[OldShooter]

... I'll read through the books and look for an attorney to actually wright it up. ...

That's exactly the right way to do it. Try very hard to find a specialist attorney -- maybe you have attorney or CPA friends who can give you a referral.

 

[tulak]

As a % of the assets to be managed and protected what is it?

Around 10% and by the time I expire, it will be a lot less. Most of my assets will be transferred outside of probate.

That does seem a bit high, but legal pricing can be all over the map. Lots of variables that can drive up (or down) the price. I don't know of a single attorney that does a basic will and prices it according to assets. Not saying this doesn't happen, but in my state that would probably be considered unethical or at least get the attorney a phone call from the ethics folks.

I don't think it's an unreasonable amount, but for what I need done, it seems high. I still might go the attorney route, and will shop around some, but I think looking at the software packages isn't a bad way to go. I'm skeptical software would have more mistakes than an attorney, especially for a simple will, and odds are that it will have less since it's using boilerplate forms. As mentioned above, there's no guarantee that your attorney won't make mistakes. At a minimum, using software and reading over the forms will allow me to see any errors that an attorney might make (similar to CPA vs TurboTax). That alone would be worth the $100 for Willmaker.

 

[CRLLS]

I will restate my earlier position. I think it is more important to name an executor / trustee that understands a legal document and can follow those document's instructions than to have a lawyer write the documents. I realize that some here are pro-attorneys and that's okay. I'm not against them in principle. I just have seen too many legal documents screwed up by attorneys over the years to say that one or the other is always the better choice. For the price of the attorney, one would think that you are getting incrementally better documents. This is not necessarily the case. If one is asking friends for recommendations, do not ask someone who used an attorney to write the document. Nobody knows how good it is until the time comes to use it. Ask someone who had an attorney help the executors and successor trustees in the settlement process for their recommendation. That is when you find out how good the documents are as well as the chosen executors and trustees.