Accident because the throttle stuck!

[Hermit]

While I was away a couple of weeks ago a neighbor totaled her car right in front of my motor home. I talked to her yesterday and she told me that both the throttle stuck wide open and the breaks failed as she was coming down the hill next to my place. The amazing thing is she did not have as much as a scratch on her. She tried to make it around the corner in the road at my drive and got up on the bank, hit a tree stump dead center, crossed back over the road, took out a 10 foot tall tree stump that was about 18 inches across at the base. Fortunately she hit that tree dead center and continued through a batch of tree stumps on a path that was barely the width of her car, traveled up my drive and back across the road where she got airborne over some more stumps and large downed logs and came to rest when she hit a tree root ball which slowed her down gently enough that there were no injuries to her. She doesn't remember what happened after she got airborne until the car was stopped. She got out and walked the half a mile or so to her place.

This is a scenario that you hear about in the news from time to time. The chances of either the throttle or the brakes failing are extremely small. The chance that they both failed are about as negligible as can be. The one common factor in these reports is that the driver is older. Usually mid seventies or beyond. In this case, I think she is around 80. She is absolutely convinced that it was a mechanical failure of the car. She has now purchased a new car and drove back up here where she lives during the summer months. She will be headed back down to the flat lands in a couple of weeks where she lives near her daughter for the winter.

My question is how do you plant the seed that it may have been an issue with her foot being on the gas pedal, not the brake. I would sure hate to see her have another accident with injuries to her or anyone else. She is not a close friend, just another person that lives up here at the Ranch who I chat with a bit from time to time.

This not just an issue for her, but for all of us as we age. When do you know that it is time to stop driving? That decision means leaving the home that we love up here in the mountains along with the independence that comes with it for us all.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

"Unintended acceleration" stories are widespread, so many people believe they're for real. Of course, brakes are engineered to stop a car even with a wide-open throttle. And, for a throttle to stick wide open, someone would have had to put the pedal to the metal in the first place.

I'm guessing that trying to convince your neighbor of that would be a futile effort. You might contact her daughter, but it's hard to tell how she'd react if you don't know her. I would hope the news that her mom totalled her car in a spectacular fashion would be a cue to daughter to keep an eye on Mom's behavior.

Edit: I had to take the car keys away from my dad after he started getting lost while driving. I tried to be subtle at first and disabled his car, but "helpful" neighbors fixed the problem for him. Once I noticed he was struggling to even put the car in gear, all bets were off. I could easily envision where he would have confused the brake with the accelerator.

The problem is that when the short-term memory goes, it's impossible to self-assess the quality of your driving decisions. Of course, other things can force you to give up the car, such as failing eyesight.

 

[VanWinkle]

"Unintended acceleration" stories are widespread, so many people believe they're for real. Of course, brakes are engineered to stop a car even with a wide-open throttle. And, for a throttle to stick wide open, someone would have had to put the pedal to the metal in the first place.

I'm guessing that trying to convince your neighbor of that would be a futile effort. You might contact her daughter, but it's hard to tell how she'd react if you don't know her. I would hope the news that her mom totalled her car in a spectacular fashion would be a cue to daughter to keep an eye on Mom's behavior.

Because it was accidental instead of a malfunction does not mean it will happen again. I agree it was likely a panic on the part of this driver, but it may have been enough to teach her a lesson. She is likely using the "accelerator stuck" routine to keep from losing her drivers license.

I saw this situation many times as a claims adjuster.

 

[Sunset]

Not much use trying to convince her as it won't work.
Too bad the black boxes on cars were not accessible by ordinary folks, it would tell what happened (like no brake pedal press).

You don't even have to be too old for this to happen.
I think I did it once, for a very short time.
I also put the car in drive instead of reverse to leave the garage.

A young girl behind me once reached for something on the floor at a stoplight, and drove into my car.

Now, when I'm at a stoplight and want to reach for something (from glovebox, or in my pocket, or floor) I put the car in park so nothing bad will happen if my foot slips off the brake.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Sure, there are plenty cases of 40- and 50-year-olds claiming their car accelerated on its own into the garage wall or the car in front of them ... but when the driver is ~80, it may signal more than a one-time accident.

I edited my post to include some personal experience. After my DD got lost on the road, I started riding with him when he drove (he was about 82). What I saw convinced me of what I had to do.

Some time afterward, he was talking with my DW during one of his lucid moments. "Have I been driving like this?" he asked her. The thought clearly horrified him.

That said, my great aunt lived on her own on the farm at the edge of the Hiawatha National Forest. She drove regularly into town until a few weeks before she died at age 96 -- of course, the town had maybe 100 people in it, so traffic was pretty light.

 

[folivier]

"And, for a throttle to stick wide open, someone would have had to put the pedal to the metal in the first place."

On today's cars with electric/tronic systems possibly. But years ago in a 1980's Nissan Stanza the throttle would go from light acceleration to full open due to the engine vacuum. Scary first time it happened. Had to drive it very carefully back to dealer for repairs. Fortunately it was a standard transmission so just put in the clutch and shut engine off.

 

[Hermit]

Because it was accidental instead of a malfunction does not mean it will happen again. I agree it was likely a panic on the part of this driver, but it may have been enough to teach her a lesson. She is likely using the "accelerator stuck" routine to keep from losing her drivers license.

I saw this situation many times as a claims adjuster.

As a claims adjuster, how many times would you say you saw it? Say 1 out of a couple hundred accidents or something like that? Was there a correlation to age?

 

[tmm99]

I don't know, but when I was in my 20's, the accelerator pedal got stuck and I couldn't get it released. I could actually hear it clicking in when it happened. It's a miracle I survived the ordeal. I don't know what i did to finally stop the car, but I was going downhill at such a high speed that I tried the emergency brake and the tires were smoking! It was a used car that we had bought just a couple of months before (this was a Buick Skylark and it gave us so much grief, but we only owned it a few months!). I could hear the accelerator pedal clicking in a couple of times before then, but it released itself right away. We got rid of this stinking car shortly after this incident.

Either way, when we brought the car back to the car dealer we bought the car from, they couldn't reproduce the problem (so they said...)

 

[ransil]

Driving while old, its always old people.

I build an off road vehicle about 10 years ago and the combo of new vehicle and the hiking boots i was wearing, i accelerated unintentionally about 3 different times, its a weird feeling and immediate response is to press harder on the gas cause i wanted to hit the brake and was sure i was on the brake, took a few monents to get my act together, lickly didn't hit anything.

Quit wearing the hiking boots.

 

[Mdlerth]

Cogito ergo zoom!

I once had an accelerator get stuck open. I had just put new floor mats in, and the lever bar on which the pedal mounts snuck under the top right corner of the mat and wedged itself there.

The only interesting part of the story is that it happened in one of my few minor extravagances ever: a Porsche 911. Instant 60 mph in a 25 zone!

The boring part of the story is that while pressing the clutch and the brake, I reached down and turned off the engine. No skidding, no crashing, no fireworks, no lasting consequences. Heart rate returned to normal within minutes.

Sometimes I wonder if the 20 years I owned that car may have conferred long-term cardiovascular benefits.

 

[Texas Proud]

I will give some info from the other side....


My mom had a 1999 Chevy Malibu and when it was about 9 years old she rear ended someone.... not bad, but did... she said that the car was accelerating without her touching the gas... and she had to really stomp on the brakes to stop it... I did not believe her...


About a year later I was driving the car and guess what YES, the car just started to accelerate even if I took my foot off the gas!!! It was not 'stuck' on carpet as I had taken that out when mom complained the first time...


It happened a number of times with me driving less than 30 minutes... we bought my mom a new car within days...


So, it CAN happen.. it has happened to me... but, the brakes were able to stop the car with the engine revving... and the engine would stop revving after a bit... I would also throw the car in neutral at times just so I would not have to stomp the brakes...


Now, the tale the OP said is a bit far fetched... that the gas and brakes both have problems at the same time!!! I do not believe that and would only do so if it were examined and proven that it happened... the foot on the 'brake' actually being the gas is the most likely cause...

 

[Bamaman]

As someone who rents automobiles on our yearly trips to Europe, it's tough finally getting to real retirement age. Many car rental companies there refuse to rent to anyone over 70 years of age. I'll have to pay close attention to terms and conditions on future trips.

Fortunately, I don't look, act or move my age. (I still think I'm 25.)

 

[Bestwifeever]

My MIL crashed headlong at a low speed into a parked semitruck on one of her last driving excursions. She was so mad; she said he was aiming right for her. At least she fidn’t think it was her car’s fault. The semi driver was very nice about it.

 

[swakyaby]

I will give some info from the other side....


My mom had a 1999 Chevy Malibu ...

Most people who have never had unintended acceleration happen to them always surmise it was driver error. Before the whole Toyota (or was it Honda?) fiasco unfolded, I bought a new 1999 Chevy Corvette and this is what happened to me.

About 1 1/2 years of trouble-free ownership, I turned the key in the ignition and started the car in the garage. It immediately revved up, like I was flooring the gas pedal even though I had not pressed on the accelerator. The electronic console was scrolling messages like “ . . . Fuel mixture too rich, depress gas pedal immediately, caution, fuel mixture too rich . . . “. Thinking maybe the gas pedal somehow got stuck, I tapped on it once, then twice, without any change in the RPMs. Fortunately, the transmission was still in Park. I turned off the ignition, waited a minute, then turned on the ignition. It started up normally, without any error messages. I shut the engine off and went inside the house to tell DH. He was skeptical, and said the accelerator probably just needed to be tapped on, that’s all.

A week later, same thing happened while starting the corvette inside the garage. This time, while the engine was roaring in full throttle, I got out of the car and went inside the house and asked DH to come outside and take a look. He entered the garage, said something like “Holy smokes . . .” , tried tapping on the gas pedal without effect and finally shut off the engine. “Something wrong?” I asked. “Yeah, definitely.”

Made a service appointment with the Chevrolet dealership and they ran the car through their diagnostics. Service manager called back and said no error codes came up. But he suggested that since both times I reported it occurred on a Monday after sitting in the garage all weekend, he would try it again after letting it sit for 2-3 days. The next time, he called back and said all kinds of error codes came up, and they needed to keep the car until it was repaired. He acknowledged it was too dangerous for me to drive. I asked what was wrong with it. In layman’s terms, he explained it appeared the computer module that controlled the car’s acceleration was defective, and it needed to be replaced.

So from personal experience, it was not simply a case of the floor mat getting stuck under the accelerator pedal, as so many people have assumed.

 

[Hermit]

I have had accelerator problems over the years. I have had brake problems. I think either failure in a modern car with less that 30k miles would be extremely rare. Having researched failure analysis in the world of rockets and satellites, the probability of having both failures at the same time is much less likely than just adding the two probabilities together. If the breaks had worked, the car would have stopped. Her comment to me was they both failed and her only ailment was sore muscles from pushing so hard on the brake. An experience from a member here where both failed at the same time would be very interesting, especially if the car was only 5 years old or so.

 

[Rustward]

...
About a year later I was driving the car and guess what YES, the car just started to accelerate even if I took my foot off the gas!!! It was not 'stuck' on carpet as I had taken that out when mom complained the first time...

#MeToo One time. I just applied full brake and turned off the ignition and restarted. Front brakes held but at least one drive wheel in the rear was spinning. It never happened again. Had nothing to do with floor mats or carpet. Don't have that vehicle any more.

 

[MRG]

I've had a stuck accelerator years ago caused by crap on the floor jamming the pedal.

In some vehicles there's a gear called neutral that come in handy.

OP I'm not sure how you have that conversation. Very passive and compassionate I guess, make it easier for them to come to the conclusion themselves.

 

[SnowBound]

If your throttle gets suck wide open and you can't react by turning off the key, you should have the keys taken way. I had a '67 LeMans with a GTO engine that this happened twice on. Yeap, need to react fast.

 

[imoldernu]

empathy here...

It was me, driving on the country road to my camp, two years ago. cruising at about 55 mph, suddenly accelerated to 65, foot off the accelerator but no slow down and still speeding up... tapped accelerator ... nothing. Put car in neutral and turned off ignition, coasted to a stop.

Started up again, and no problem for two more days of driving... then, in traffic, and the same thing happened again. Fortunately again cruised to a stop without accident. After this happened for the second time, I went out to the quiet country road, and tried to duplicate the problem... Nothing.

Still worried, took the car to the best shop in the area and explained the problem. They kept the car for two days and tested every part of the system, then took me for a drive... mechanic driving.. to show me that all was OK...
On to the interstate, and at 50mph, suddenly zoomed to 75. Shook up the driver.

Another day in the garage, and a complete take down of the steering wheel, and more testing..... an intermittent short in the cruise control.

If I had, had an accident, am sure it would have been attributed it to old age.

 

[tmm99]

empathy here...

It was me, driving on the country road to my camp, two years ago. cruising at about 55 mph, suddenly accelerated to 65, foot off the accelerator but no slow down and still speeding up... tapped accelerator ... nothing. Put car in neutral and turned off ignition, coasted to a stop.

Started up again, and no problem for two more days of driving... then, in traffic, and the same thing happened again. Fortunately again cruised to a stop without accident. After this happened for the second time, I went out to the quiet country road, and tried to duplicate the problem... Nothing.

Still worried, took the car to the best shop in the area and explained the problem. They kept the car for two days and tested every part of the system, then took me for a drive... mechanic driving.. to show me that all was OK...
On to the interstate, and at 50mph, suddenly zoomed to 75. Shook up the driver.

Another day in the garage, and a complete take down of the steering wheel, and more testing..... an intermittent short in the cruise control.

If I had, had an accident, am sure it would have been attributed it to old age.

Wow! And if it hadn't happened when the mechanic was driving, he probably would have brushed off your claim due to old age! Good thing it happened when he was driving, for your sake!!!

 

[imoldernu]

BTW... pressing the brake pedal doesn't necessarily stop the acceleration. At speed, it hardly slows the 4.6L engine.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Hm, searching google does turn up a number of reports of cruise-control runaways on various makes, plus a big recall (4.8 million vehicles) by Fiat Chrysler earlier this year. That's an enormous recall.

 

[Music Lover]

If your throttle gets suck wide open and you can't react by turning off the key, you should have the keys taken way. I had a '67 LeMans with a GTO engine that this happened twice on. Yeap, need to react fast.

Something to be aware of...turning off the key too far to the "lock" position may lock the steering wheel preventing you from controlling the car's direction.

 

[jazz4cash]

empathy here...

It was me, driving on the country road to my camp, two years ago. cruising at about 55 mph, suddenly accelerated to 65, foot off the accelerator but no slow down and still speeding up... tapped accelerator ... nothing. Put car in neutral and turned off ignition, coasted to a stop.

Started up again, and no problem for two more days of driving... then, in traffic, and the same thing happened again. Fortunately again cruised to a stop without accident. After this happened for the second time, I went out to the quiet country road, and tried to duplicate the problem... Nothing.

Still worried, took the car to the best shop in the area and explained the problem. They kept the car for two days and tested every part of the system, then took me for a drive... mechanic driving.. to show me that all was OK...
On to the interstate, and at 50mph, suddenly zoomed to 75. Shook up the driver.

Another day in the garage, and a complete take down of the steering wheel, and more testing..... an intermittent short in the cruise control.

If I had, had an accident, am sure it would have been attributed it to old age.

I had a pretty good idea your issue was related to cruise control system in the first sentence of your description. It also happens when drivers inadvertently hit the RESUME soft switch with the cruise enabled. If an older relative of mine has similar issue I might disable the cruise control system but also remind them to use neutral and turn the engine off if it should happen again. It seems people panic and don’t react well when this happens. Should be part of drivers ed.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I've had a couple instances of a sticking throttle over the years. The first was in a mid-70s VW Dasher, one of Volkswagen's early watercooled cars. The throttle cable housing failed, which allowed moisture in that froze up on a cold day. I could't get the car to decelerate, so I braked to slow the car and then shifted into neutral as I came to a stop in the breakdown lane. The fix was to replace the throttle cable.

The other incident, in the last couple years, involved my MiL's 2000 Honda Accord V6. It had seen a lot of in-town driving, and as a result the idle control valve had become gummed up with varnish. It stuck in the open position, which was only noticeable when trying to slow down below 35-40 mph. At that point I had to brake to get the car to slow for the 25-mph speed limit.

Once I got back home, I flushed the valve out with aerosol throttle body cleaner, and it was a good as new.

As for the debate whether brakes can bring a runaway car to a stop, Car and Driver did a test in 2009, with one of the subjects a 500-hp Roush Mustang. In all three of the test vehicles the brakes overcame engine power. Not saying there aren't some exceptions or exceptional conditions, but ...
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/how-to-deal-with-unintended-acceleration