After college, why sign up for the military?

[Nords]

I'm just surprised at all the college grads who join upon graduating. I had NO idea so many joined the service AFTER graduating. The only ones I met in college were going to school thanks to Uncle Sammie's benefits after doing their 3-4 years in...while I slaved away in law offices as a secretary to get the money up to go. I haven't any reservations about my son going in at all, but I am still in the learning stage.

OK, everyone has already mentioned being part of something bigger, wanting to prove oneself, and wanting to pay off those student loans. Those are all good reasons.

It's also been mentioned that it's the route to a commission, and I think that's the #1 reason for attending college before joining the military-- to join as an officer and not to have to depend on the bureaucracy to get selected for officer training. I've sat boards for over a hundred officer candidates and I'd hate to have to depend on some guy like me to let me go to a service academy, OCS, or some other commissioning program.

Another reason was advanced by a Civil War historian studying Pickett's charge. Men form up and march into gunfire because they're alongside a brother, a cousin, a childhood friend, maybe even an uncle or their father. They'd rather get shot than to dishonor themselves among these people. Maybe it's testosterone poisoning, but it's pretty powerful stuff.

Finally, FWIW, joining the military gives a 20-something unrivalled authority & responsibility (and accountability). Unless you're starting your own business, I don't think that most college graduates get the same degree of experience at resource management, leadership, budget, safety training, risk management, and weapons release authority.

Of course they're also entitled to unbelievable degrees of boredom, bureaucracy, danger, and the chance to get their assets shot off. Hard to find all those things at a civilian "my first career".

From previous post on this board it is obvious that Brewer has nothing but disdain for the military. It appears he is a part of society that believes nothing is worth fighting for, and the military should be disbanded.

Hey, Rustic, I've managed to get along better with conscientious objectors than I have with some shipmates. They hold the same strength of their convictions that we do, although at least one of us is probably misguided. Brewer couldn't hold those opinions unless we were around to defend his right to hold them, and neither could millions of other Americans. I don't have to agree with their sentiments, but I'm proud that I served in the military so that they didn't have to. Hopefuly he'll never have to go through an experience that makes him want to join the military. Even better would be for them to find a solution that makes us irrelevant, but until then I'd rather be the guy in a glass case labeled "Break In Case Of Emergency".

Ever read Joe Haldemann's "The Forever War" and its sequels? He's a Vietnam vet too.

Without talking with him, I am going to venture a guess that the Marine's cultish philosophy of "once a Marine, always a Marine" appeals to him.
Seems as if all the ex-military who answered this appear to be pretty satisfied with their lives. That's positive and takes a load off my mind...not that I was very worried.

Absolutely. USMC was my first choice until I discovered submarines, and the Marine commercials still give me chicken skin.

A homeschooled 18-year-old friend of mine, whose light burns extremely brightly, is joining the Marines as an infantry grunt (a machine-gunner wannabe) because his older brother has nothing but praise for his 2+ years of experiences (including Iraq). Oh, and he also has zero money for college and can't conceive of why someone would waste perfectly good scholarship money on him.

The Marines are taking him even without a GED (which they'll arrange for him to get after recruit training), just an ASVAB score above 50. If he'd been willing to sign up last month they would've paid him an extra $10K.

He has no plans to stay past four-- just to get in, get out, and get his GI Bill to college. He laughs when I tell him to have an answer ready for that day they ask him "Wanna be an officer?"

But when it came time to detect and fire on submarines (sorry Nords)

Eh, no offense, only an observation that the second step can't proceed until successful completion of the first. Ever read the "10 Rules of ASW"?

Let's just say that I took equal amounts of red, yellow, and green pyrotechics to sea and was perpetualy running out of green flares before anything else even got close.

If it was you who had to watch a green flare soar over your bridge, uhm, well, sorry about that... I was really aiming for the carrier on your other side!

If they keep him out (some congenital hearing loss is there), he, at least, tried.

It's not the hearing that's a problem... it's the listening...

I'm surprised at how bad one's hearing can be and still qualify for most military jobs. The only hard-line physical disqualification seems to be childhood asthma.

 

[OldAgePensioner]

OK, everyone has already mentioned being part of something bigger, wanting to prove oneself, and wanting to pay off those student loans. Those are all good reasons.

It's also been mentioned that it's the route to a commission, and I think that's the #1 reason for attending college before joining the military-- to join as an officer and not to have to depend on the bureaucracy to get selected for officer training. I've sat boards for over a hundred officer candidates and I'd hate to have to depend on some guy like me to let me go to a service academy, OCS, or some other commissioning program.

Another reason was advanced by a Civil War historian studying Pickett's charge. Men form up and march into gunfire because they're alongside a brother, a cousin, a childhood friend, maybe even an uncle or their father. They'd rather get shot than to dishonor themselves among these people. Maybe it's testosterone poisoning, but it's pretty powerful stuff.

Finally, FWIW, joining the military gives a 20-something unrivalled authority & responsibility (and accountability). Unless you're starting your own business, I don't think that most college graduates get the same degree of experience at resource management, leadership, budget, safety training, risk management, and weapons release authority.

Of course they're also entitled to unbelievable degrees of boredom, bureaucracy, danger, and the chance to get their assets shot off. Hard to find all those things at a civilian "my first career".


Hey, Rustic, I've managed to get along better with conscientious objectors than I have with some shipmates. They hold the same strength of their convictions that we do, although at least one of us is probably misguided. Brewer couldn't hold those opinions unless we were around to defend his right to hold them, and neither could millions of other Americans. I don't have to agree with their sentiments, but I'm proud that I served in the military so that they didn't have to. Hopefuly he'll never have to go through an experience that makes him want to join the military. Even better would be for them to find a solution that makes us irrelevant, but until then I'd rather be the guy in a glass case labeled "Break In Case Of Emergency".

Ever read Joe Haldemann's "The Forever War" and its sequels? He's a Vietnam vet too.


Absolutely. USMC was my first choice until I discovered submarines, and the Marine commercials still give me chicken skin.

A homeschooled 18-year-old friend of mine, whose light burns extremely brightly, is joining the Marines as an infantry grunt (a machine-gunner wannabe) because his older brother has nothing but praise for his 2+ years of experiences (including Iraq). Oh, and he also has zero money for college and can't conceive of why someone would waste perfectly good scholarship money on him.

The Marines are taking him even without a GED (which they'll arrange for him to get after recruit training), just an ASVAB score above 50. If he'd been willing to sign up last month they would've paid him an extra $10K.

He has no plans to stay past four-- just to get in, get out, and get his GI Bill to college. He laughs when I tell him to have an answer ready for that day they ask him "Wanna be an officer?"


Eh, no offense, only an observation that the second step can't proceed until successful completion of the first. Ever read the "10 Rules of ASW"?

Let's just say that I took equal amounts of red, yellow, and green pyrotechics to sea and was perpetualy running out of green flares before anything else even got close.

If it was you who had to watch a green flare soar over your bridge, uhm, well, sorry about that... I was really aiming for the carrier on your other side!


It's not the hearing that's a problem... it's the listening...

I'm surprised at how bad one's hearing can be and still qualify for most military jobs. The only hard-line physical disqualification seems to be childhood asthma.

Wow, Brewer1234, -1200 of IQ or at least call to serve.
Called out by Nords. Wow. Calling him trailer park trash. Unreal. j/k

But all kidding aside, the current military is better for the wisdom and experience passed on by those before them in my estimation. They as volunteers, are meeting standards never seen before and getting the job done. I did not serve, but for those who did and those I worked with, it was clear that you deserve respect and even those who would not serve also must sit in awe of a soldier who has something they will never have.

 

[lets-retire]

The only hard-line physical disqualification seems to be childhood asthma.

When I tried to go back into the Reserves after Iraq started I was advised GERD is also disqualifing, no waivers, no exceptions, period.

 

[samclem]

But I cannot agree that it is a good thing to have these people in the military for years and years: a waste of talent, IMO.

There's no doubt that society pays a really big opportunity cost for having a military. We talk about the dollars spent on defense, but the opportunity cost of the talent we spend on defense is also considerable. Everyone who joins the military is somebody who isn't inventing a new flavor of Gatorade, working on the next high-output battery, analyzing securities to figure out another arbitrage angle, or putting the new coversheet on the TPS reports.

The military, like cops, produce nothing--except the environment that makes everything else possible.

"I study war and politics, so my children can study business and commerce, so their children can study literature and the arts."
(John Adams in a letter to Abigail Adams)

It's almost a "Maslow's Heirachy", but at the societal level

And what type of folks do we need to join up? Unfortunately, they need to be very solid ones. While very few of them will have an opportunity to become famous by bringing great credit to the nation, nearly everyone in uniform has multiple opportunities every day to bring discredit on the uniform and the country. The young troop who assaults a local in a foreign nation can very well affect national policy. The fact that many of us here even know the names of William Calley, Charles Graner and Lynndie England is strong testimony that a miscreant in the wrong spot can do incredible damage to the reputation and objectives of the United States. The services have room for the bright, the average, and the not-so-bright, but there's no room at all for those who won't work or who behave dishonorably.

(For whatever all that is worth!)

 

[Bigritchie]

I joined the Marines right outa high school. I knew I did not want to waste the money I had saved paying for college, and that I would probably just goof around with incredible hot Asian chicks at school anyway hehe.

I just kinda woke up one day and wanted to be a Marine, wanted to challenge and define my man hood I guess. One of the best choices of my life too I think.

I do not think I would have retired by 30 without the Marine Corps, that said I would not want to do 20 years either, but I have massive respect for those that do.

Like Brewer I do not trust big government either, and I kinda think that we are screwed until people become loyal to their country and not their party line. That being said, there is a instant kin-ship among veterans, and they are some of the finest people I have ever met. I do not think the military itself is bad, I think for the most part they are great people, many of whom were probably bad people made good people by the military.

But anyway enough of my views, I do understand why young men decide to join, it is almost like falling in love, you just KNOW that you have to do it

 

[lets-retire]

I do not think I would have retired by 30 without the Marine Corps, that said I would not want to do 20 years either, but I have massive respect for those that do.

I used to tell my troops, "If you want to do 20 you aren't training hard enough. You should be worn out by 15."

 

[Gumby]

I have been trying to come to grips with precisely why I joined up. I grew up in a military family. My father retired after 20 years with the Navy at the beginning of my senior year of high school. He served in Vietnam. Both of my grandfathers were in WWII; one was killed. My aunt was in the Navy and so was my brother. I grew up with the belief that my entry into the military was almost inevitable, that I was born to be "a warrior for my people". That said, if it had not been for the fact that they sent me through college (the U.S. Naval Academy), I might well have skipped it.

I am proud that I served. It was difficult and I think I did a good job. And I think that, at the time, it was necessary. (I was an engineering division officer on a ballistic missile submarine during the "evil empire" days of the Cold War) But even when I was on active duty, I was skeptical about the leadership of this country and the demands that leadership made made on the military. I have been opposed to the war in Iraq from the start and I believe that the military has been ill served by the chickenhawk neocons in Washington. When the enemy lands on the shores of the US, you can count on me to be there to help repel them, but I simply cannot support the invasion and destruction of a country that posed no realistic threat to the U.S.

Sorry to wander off topic. To the OP, I would say simply that there are many and varied reasons for joining the military. It is an honorable profession and it can greatly enrich the life of your son. If he chooses the military, I would ask that you support his decision.

Gumby

P.S. - Brewer - I have always believed that investment in tanks and fighter jets does not count as CAPEX, because it produces no measurable return on investment.

 

[packrat44]

When I tried to go back into the Reserves after Iraq started I was advised GERD is also disqualifing, no waivers, no exceptions, period.

I am surprised they wouldn't let you back. I did 2 tours AD starting in 1966, then went into the reserves. Developed GERDs while on the first tour of AD (they didn't call it that back then). Called back to AD after the 9/11 affair. Released when I turned 60.

 

[chinaco]

There is no way to know why he made that decision in particular. It probably is not any one thing. It could be a combination of things... adventure, patriotism, etc.

I am a veteran. I am glad your son is considering Military Service. Our country needs people to be part of the military organization to keep us safe. It is very important! Unfortunately, there are many governments around the world that would do us harm if they felt they had half a chance! We must never forget that.

 

[lets-retire]

I am surprised they wouldn't let you back. I did 2 tours AD starting in 1966, then went into the reserves. Developed GERD while on the first tour of AD (they didn't call it that back then). Called back to AD after the 9/11 affair. Released when I turned 60.

When I got out the second time the DOD regulation allowed my return, so for personal reasons I had to completely exit the military. When I attempted to go back in less than a year later they changed the regulation. Initially if you had a small Hiatal Hernia, as I do, you could enter. Under the current regulation if you have GERD there is no hope of going in, unless the ailment is corrected. So I guess I could go back in, but I'd have to talk a doctor into performing a procedure that really isn't necessary, since my GERD is well controlled with meds, and I would have to give up some of the VA disability I receive.

My biggest issue with that is the problem was diagnosed on active duty. The government did not discharge me, so the BS excuse that they can not guarantee I can receive medicine downrange so I can't come in makes no sense. If that were the major reason for the change they should have discharged me when diagnosed. The other two reasons for disqualifying is the issue prevents a person from performing their job and the government does not want to pay to keep someone healthy when they came in sick. Again if it prevented me from performing my job they should have discharged me when I was diagnosed. The last argument does not apply either, as they have to treat me for life anyway, if I chose, since I was diagnosed on duty and receive the disability for it. All of my arguments were tried at various levels to no avail, so all I can do is sit on the sidelines and watch.

 

[Orchidflower]

I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY ARGUMENTS HERE, but would like to ask this simple question: Why would anyone be so anti-military while living in the United States? Do they not realize that they might be working under another countries power if we did not defend this country? That we have to defend what we have?
Call me stupid, but I just do not get this one at all. I understand what being a pacifist is all about, and, like Sally Field said, and I am paraphrasing, "if the mothers ran the world, there would be no G** D***** wars!" BUT we ARE a big power in the world and need to defend our position (or lose it). What am I not seeing?

 

[2soon2tell]

Well said Gumby.

I graduated from college in 1968 and basically if you could fog a mirror you qualified for the draft. Rather than be drafted in the Army I was accepted to Navy OCS. Would I have gone in without the draft hanging over me? Maybe because I was 22 and wanted to get away from home. My DF was a glider pilot in the Army Air Corps during WWII and my FIL was on a tin can in the Pacific participating in many battles. My FIL told me that you were subject to be drafted up to age 36 during WWII. My father was 30 when he went into the service. Those were different times.

Even though I was injured and discharged with a disability I'm glad I served. To date I had had five shoulder surgeries and diabetes and pancreatic cancer that may be related to my limited Viet Nam service.

Like Gumby I have been against our war in Iraq from the very beginning but have the utmost respect for the men and women who volunteer to serve. As an officer you are given responsibilities at an early age. I was 24 and responsible for safeguarding the most secret documents and material in the military including SIOP and two man control material.

If someone has the desire to join the miliary after college I say go for it. Your time will not be wasted and what you learn will stay with you the rest of your life.

Just my two cents,

2soon2tell

 

[2soon2tell]

Well said Gumby.

I graduated from college in 1968 and basically if you could fog a mirror you qualified for the draft. Rather than be drafted in the Army I was accepted to Navy OCS. Would I have gone in without the draft hanging over me? Maybe because I was 22 and wanted to get away from home. My DF was a glider pilot in the Army Air Corps during WWII and my FIL was on a tin can in the Pacific participating in many battles. My FIL told me that you were subject to be drafted up to age 36 during WWII. My father was 30 when he went into the service. Those were different times.

Even though I was injured and discharged with a disability I'm glad I served. To date I had had five shoulder surgeries and diabetes and pancreatic cancer that may be related to my limited Viet Nam service.

Like Gumby I have been against our war in Iraq from the very beginning but have the utmost respect for the men and women who volunteer to serve. As an officer you are given responsibilities at an early age. I was 24 and responsible for safeguarding the most secret documents and material in the military including SIOP and two man control material.

If someone has the desire to join the miliary after college I say go for it. Your time will not be wasted and what you learn will stay with you the rest of your life.

Just my two cents,

2soon2tell

 

[OldAgePensioner]

As a pro-midthink type, I suspect Nords comment of chastisement has highlighted the issue very well.

Brewer and ladelfina can feel safe and pacified only as long as folks like Nords, Wags and many others who've served in the military with life at risk to secure our pacifist's comfy existence. And right to speak freely.

I'm surprised that so many posters have been positive in their response, it seems some of the more anti-military posters have eschewed comment. As they should, since you question was directed to reasons to join, not reasons to hate our military.

 

[samclem]

I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY ARGUMENTS HERE, but would like to ask this simple question: Why would anyone be so anti-military while living in the United States?

I believe you are not trying to start an argument, but there's no better way to start one than to pose a question like this. I hope that the thread can stay positive despite the red flag waiving (which will result in stars-n-stripes waiving, which never ends well).

 

[Orchidflower]

I agree...so, I will just walk away shaking my head over this. Sorry to have brought it up at all!

 

[Nords]

I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY ARGUMENTS HERE, but would like to ask this simple question: Why would anyone be so anti-military while living in the United States? Do they not realize that they might be working under another countries power if we did not defend this country? That we have to defend what we have?

When I was at Monterey at the height of the Evil Empire portion of the Cold War, the Defense Language Institute students used to wear t-shirts proclaiming in big letters on the front "We're learning Russian..." and on the back in even bigger letters "... so you don't have to!"

Having said that, the U.S. military is one of the world's larger [-]thoughtless heartless soul-sucking money-wasting[/-] bureaucracies. Look at the paperwork required to obtain a military contract, and see how long your small business would survive with the military's "pay within 30 days unless we need 90 days but maybe longer sometimes".

Wal-Mart and Microsoft may be evil personified, but they don't get to use near as much fuel & ordnance. The Hawaiian island of Kaho'olawe was bombed literally to death for five decades and $500M later there's still no guarantee that all the ordnance has been found/removed. Plenty of Hawaiian religious & archeological sites have been trampled & burned in the name of combat training and many communities have had their water supplies poisoned and their land contaminated. (Pearl Harbor land is so saturated with 90 years of diesel fuel spills that after every heavy rain the harbor shines with the oily runoff.) Farmers & ranchers have lost livestock to military [-]"oopsies"[/-] accidental weapons releases. Military exercises & maneuvers cause noise pollution, damage the roads & land, and inconvenience the communities that have grown up in the area.

Look at all the veterans & families who've suffered from military medical malpractice, pay problems, arbitrary enforcement of administrative requirements, and fickle civil-service changes. Then there's the whole fumbling dysfunctional military-media relationship.

I'm sure there are dozens of other issues I've overlooked that, collected into a crowd and handled with bad publicity, could cause a lot of people to become vociferously anti-military.

 

[Orchidflower]

Thank you, Nords. I get it totally.

 

[Wags]

When I advocate PEACE it is not because I am against OUR TROOPS. We can SUPPORT OUR TROOPS but disagree with the POLICY.

If I am passionate in my posts it is because of my concern for OUR TROOPS, OUR FALLEN TROOPS, OUR VETERANS, AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE who are being killed, wounded and maimed because of a failed Iraq War policy. I am also deeply concerned about THEIR/OUR FAMILES who are suffering because their loved ones are paying the ultimate sacrfice. 3800 plus of OUR TROOPS killed, an estimated 25000 to 30000 of OUR TROOPS wounded and maimed and an estimated 500000 to 1000000 Iraqi Civilians killed, wounded and maimed deserve our prayers and to have someone speak out for them

I come from a family who have served OUR country - one uncle served in WWII, one uncle served in WWII and died a lonely and broken man from his injuries as a result of the Korean War, one cousin was killed in Vietnam, one cousin is disabled from Vietnam and then I had several cousins who served in Vietnam. In my family my brother and sister served (she will be retiring in May 08)8). Currently I have about 4 to 6 counsins who have either served in or are serving in Iraq and Afganistan.

As for me I proudly served OUR COUNTRY because I LOVED HER and because I am thankful for everything that GOD has blessed me with.

While I am an advocate for PEACE I do beleive that the U.S. should have a strong military which can act as a deterent to those who may wish to attack us. But I also believe that the military should only be used ONLY if we have been attacked and as a last resort. Our military should not be used for nation building and to force democracy upon other countries.

To be President one does not have to serve in the military or in a time of WAR but I do think that one has to use COMMON SENSE when making decisions that will affect live and death. In the case of the Iraq War I do not believe that Old George W or his policies have served OUR COUNTRY well.

Many thanks to all of those who have served in the time of PEACE and in the time of WAR. I for one will not forget the sacrfice that people like you have made so that we can all have the freedom(s) to speak our minds and to live as a free people. We have many freedoms that are not enjoyed by other people of other countries.

GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS, OUR FALLEN TROOPS, OUR VETERANS, THEIR FAMILIES, THE IRAQI PEOPLE AND THE GREAT WILLIE NELSON.

 

[Rustic23]

Wags,
You have yourself a conundrum. How do you speak out against a war you feel is unjust, and at the same time not give aid and comfort to the same people that are killing our solders daily?

The time to speak out is before the first soldier is deployed. If you, and others in the population can not stop the deployment of troops, then it is time, IMHO, to cease and desist. When the battles are over, and the soldiers and sailors are no longer in harms way, bring the leadership up on charges, castigate them in the press, destroy their Party. In the simplest terms Dad says NO, Mom says YES, the kids are going to do everything they can to support Mom until Dad gives in.

Please take time to read the following:

OPEN LETTER TO ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS

As one that has a son in the Marine Corp, I fear our enemies are bolstered by anti-war protesters. I'll talk with my friends, work with the party of my choice, but I will never publicly insult the current leadership, or call for an immediate withdrawal of troops. To do so, I believe, gives our enemies hope.

 

[Gumby]

Wags,
but I will never publicly insult the current leadership, . . . To do so, I believe, gives our enemies hope.

Oh, please. You, like me, took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. You did not take an oath to support the greater glory of the House of Bush. The current war is illegitimate, ill-conceived, poorly conducted and doomed to failure. The way to support our troops, including your son, is to get their asses out of Iraq. People who say opposition to the war is a failure to support our troops are simply full of crap.

 

[Wags]

After college, why sign up for the military.

Wags,
You have yourself a conundrum. How do you speak out against a war you feel is unjust, and at the same time not give aid and comfort to the same people that are killing our solders daily?

The time to speak out is before the first soldier is deployed. If you, and others in the population can not stop the deployment of troops, then it is time, IMHO, to cease and desist. When the battles are over, and the soldiers and sailors are no longer in harms way, bring the leadership up on charges, castigate them in the press, destroy their Party. In the simplest terms Dad says NO, Mom says YES, the kids are going to do everything they can to support Mom until Dad gives in.

Please take time to read the following:

OPEN LETTER TO ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS

As one that has a son in the Marine Corp, I fear our enemies are bolstered by anti-war protesters. I'll talk with my friends, work with the party of my choice, but I will never publicly insult the current leadership, or call for an immediate withdrawal of troops. To do so, I believe, gives our enemies hope.

Before the Iraq War there were plenty of people who spoke out against attacking Iraq and just like now Old George W is not listening to the MAJORITY of the American people who disagree with his Iraq War policy. HE DID NOT LISTEN THEN AND HE IS NOT LISTENING NOW.

The only ones who are giving the enemy HOPE are Old George W and Cheney with their failed Iraq War policies. After 9/11 Old George W had various photo ops and news conferences stating that we were going to get Osama Bin Laden (remember the WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE posters). Osama Bin Laden is still running around free, holding news conferences and making videos. Bin Laden has made Old George W look like an incompetent JACKA$$ and he continues to mock the U>S and the world. This along with Old George W's failed Iraq War policies have given more comfort and aid to the enemy then anything that the advocators for PEACE can do or say. The bottomline is that Bin Laden has made the "GREAT SATAN" look like a toothless tiger.

As for those who say that we give aid and comfort to the enemy who are killing OUR TROOPS - would you instead suggest that we remain quiet so that Old George W can continue with HIS same old failed Iraq War policies which are costing the U.S billions of $$$$ if not trillions of $$$$ (mortgaged our children's future to China) and/or would you prefer that we continue to have OUR TROOPS and the Iraqi people killed, wounded and maimed?

Would you prefer that Old George W continue with his saber rattling against Syria and Iran? If he does start a WAR with Iran and Syria the DRAFT will be implemented and then OUR CHILDREN will be forced to go fight in HIS WARS, while Old George W leaves office and hands off HIS WARS to the next President to take care of.

As for bringing up the leaders on charges we all know that it is not going to happen. Neither party will let the other do what is needed. I believe that the last election sent a clear message to the Republicans that they are failing the American people with their continued support of Old George W's failed Iraq War policies. The REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS JUST LIKE OLD GEORGE W ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE WANTS AND NEEDS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. It is time to END the Iraq War and bring OUR TROOPS home.

 

[deserat]

Back to Orchidflower's original question:

I've read most of the responses, however, being an officer in the military can be a better experience at times than being enlisted -at least that's what my husband says who started out enlisted and is now an officer. The comment was: "I doubled my salary in one day from SSgt to 2Lt." I myself have been alternatively an active and reserve officer now for 20+ years in the Air Force.

I also have a very strong civilian career that I nurse on my way to ER - I'll tell you the significant differences I see between those with and without the military experience:
1) Most if not all can get up in front of a group of people and succinctly speak about something
2) Most understand the difference between leadership and management
3) Most understand what the word commitment means
4) Most understand the difference between strategy and tactics and how they are related

My background is that I had a ROTC scholarship in engineering, got trained in Space Ops and then did military acquisition among many disciplines (telecommunications, satellite groudn systems, healthcare informatics, airplanes). I also had the outstanding opportunity to live in Europe and do political-military analysis for four years - I know of no other way to get that opportunity as easily as one could get in the military. I've had the opportunity to take professional military education (SOS, ACSC, AWC, NDU RCNSC, leadership seminars) that spans not just the military but history, leadership, international relations, and technology to name a few. In short, they've done their best to make sure I am a well-rounded, well-educated member of my society--and they've paid for most of it.

What's interesting is I didn't have these aspirations when I first started on this journey and put up my hand with the oath to receive my scholarship.

And like, Nords, I don't begrudge anyone their beliefs - I just want to make sure that somehow we maintain the freedom in this country to allow those beliefs to be aired. I've visited many places where that is not true.

Your son could make a lesser choice in my opinion - or even your daughter.

 

[Fireup2020]

How many of us "lifers" came in once upon a time ago supposedly for one hitch and have since retired, or are closing in on 20 plus years of service?

19 year, 4 mos and counting here Retirement [-]party[/-] ceremony next fall!!

 

[Nords]

How many of us "lifers" came in once upon a time ago supposedly for one hitch and have since retired, or are closing in on 20 plus years of service?

In 1984 when I was a young LTJG standing engineering watches, a machinist's mate used to poke his head into the compartment and say "You're a lifer!"

Let's just say that although he was good at his job, "Booger" wasn't one of the more highly-ranked E-5s. He was expected to leave the microsecond his enlistment was up, so everyone tolerated his attitude attacks.

Today he's a CWO3 and he's still on active duty...