Annuities? Have you been talking to someone who want to sell you something?

[rayinpenn]

I am amazed to see the number of people suggesting and hawking annuities. Sure annuities pay a guaranteed fixed return but they also expose the owner to inflation. The results of which could be disastrous for a retiree.

The people who love annuities most are those who sell them as they pay handsome commissions. Ask yourself who is really funding those commissions? Answer: the buyer and at what cost? If that much money is going to the salesperson how can they be efficient. answer: They can't and are not! I don't pay up front fees for mutual funds and I don't fund annuity salespeople's retirements.

I buy low admin fees diversified mutual funds and efts ( emphasis on dividend paying ) and have done exceptionally well. I never sweat the dips corrections because the market always comes matching back. Google transparent investing.

Years ago (too many to count) I bought my first dividend paying stock and I received that first dividend. The sky immediately turned blue and I swear I heard harp music - it was an awakening! The dividends continue to come in and even in the last credit disaster the dividends kept getting posted to the brokerage account. It is hands off investing.

http://www.transparentinvesting.com/uploads/wholestory.pdf

If you buy with the intention of holding forever the price really isn't important - the stream of income is.
Never let anyone sell you anything... Do your homework and cut out the middleman.

 

[REWahoo]

Ray, you are new here so you may not know that when it comes to annuities you are preaching to the choir.

 

[rayinpenn]

Ah, that's good to hear.. I have met too many people that have sold.
Then my msg is joining the voices of the choir

 

[Bestwifeever]

...

I buy low admin fees diversified mutual funds and efts ( emphasis on dividend paying ) and have done exceptionally well. I never sweat the dips corrections because the market always comes matching back. Google transparent investing....


http://www.transparentinvesting.com/uploads/wholestory.pdf

....

Note the link is to a 53-page piece by Patrick Geddes, former CFO of Morningstar. From his introduction:

This guide provides both investment insights but also some consumer advocacy. The financial services industry offers a myriad of ways to purchase advice on and management of portfolios for investors. This guide offers some insight into how investors can make smart decisions regarding what services to buy and how much to pay.

 

[rayinpenn]

Note the link is to a 53-page piece by Patrick Geddes, former CFO of Morningstar. From his introduction:

And most of it questions do you need an investment advisor? No can you build an efficient low cost portfolio on your own: Yes

 

[pb4uski]

It's interesting to me that I have not been approached at all about buying annuities. My insurance agent BIL knows better. Just been luck I guess, but I'm quite good at saying no.

 

[braumeister]

The first and only time I've been directly offered an annuity was a couple of months ago while reviewing my portfolio with my FIDO rep. He brought up whatever instrument they were currently promoting and I replied that I was a confirmed DIY-er.
He just said "Oh, right. Sorry, I forgot." Then he dropped it completely.

OTOH, we get an invitation to somebody's lunch/dinner/whatever financial "presentation" about weekly. Never went to one and probably never will.

 

[athena53]

OTOH, we get an invitation to somebody's lunch/dinner/whatever financial "presentation" about weekly. Never went to one and probably never will.

Now that I'm retired I am SO tempted to go to one of these "gourmet dinners" and ask the presenters impertinent questions!

 

[nokkieny]

What about whole life insurance, I have been pitched this at least 3 times, It sounds to goo to be true. Why do I need life insurance when I have no dependents? Its really just an investment vehicle disguised as life insurance, with a big sales commission? Smells fishy.

 

[jerome len]

How about charitable annuities, giving some while still here and getting tax break? like most on this blog I'd never consider an annuity but I am looking at a charitable annuity as a way of getting a tax deduction, some income while helping a deserving charity Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this subject. thanks.

 

[brewer12345]

What about whole life insurance, I have been pitched this at least 3 times, It sounds to goo to be true. Why do I need life insurance when I have no dependents? Its really just an investment vehicle disguised as life insurance, with a big sales commission? Smells fishy.

Your instincts are correct: this is all about commissions.

 

[pb4uski]

How about charitable annuities, giving some while still here and getting tax break? like most on this blog I'd never consider an annuity but I am looking at a charitable annuity as a way of getting a tax deduction, some income while helping a deserving charity Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this subject. thanks.

What if the charity falls on hard times and is unable to make the annuity payments and you are depending on them? It seems that then you're screwed.

 

[gcgang]

How about charitable annuities, giving some while still here and getting tax break? like most on this blog I'd never consider an annuity but I am looking at a charitable annuity as a way of getting a tax deduction, some income while helping a deserving charity Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this subject. thanks.

Charitable Annuities do all that you say. Very tax efficient way of giving while getting an income stream. If you need to rebalance, giving highly appreciated, overly concentrated position that does not produce income to charity works great. We've set up several of these and our state has additional tax benefit for doing in state planned giving.

Know the financial strength of the charity is s good idea. We've often used Community Foundations to carry out the gift annuity.

 

[braumeister]

How about charitable annuities, giving some while still here and getting tax break? like most on this blog I'd never consider an annuity but I am looking at a charitable annuity as a way of getting a tax deduction, some income while helping a deserving charity Appreciate everyone's thoughts on this subject. thanks.

I've had similar thoughts, but went about it another way. I didn't like the idea of sending such a large amount of money to just one charity.

I set up a donor-advised fund (Fidelity makes it super easy) and make sizable contributions each year. I get a big tax deduction, the money grows in the fund, and I "advise" distributions of any amount to any charity at any time. Best of both worlds, I think.

We have no kids, so in the end, any remaining assets when DW and I eventually go will be bequeathed to the DAF (which will have instructions for making ongoing gifts in perpetuity) and continue doing good things.

 

[athena53]

I set up a donor-advised fund (Fidelity makes it super easy) and make sizable contributions each year. I get a big tax deduction, the money grows in the fund, and I "advise" distributions of any amount to any charity at any time. Best of both worlds, I think.

We have one of those- greatest thing since sliced bread. For me, the big bonus is that you can donate anonymously if you wish. Fidelity will just send them a check and tell them the donor wishes to remain anonymous. That way the charity can't call or mail you and pester your for more.

 

[thefinancebuff]

Annuities? Have you been talking to someone who want to sell you something?

It takes two to have a conversation. If you don't talk, they can't sell.

 

[scrabbler1]

Rayinpenn, about 2 years ago I had a successful "intervention" (with the help of others here in ER forum) to stop a friend of mine from buying an annuity. If you want to read the story about it, it is in this thread:

http://www.early-retirement.org/for...my-friend-out-of-buying-an-annuity-60502.html

Ther first 33 posts were in the 3 days surrounding the rep's sales pitch to my friend before I took the thread in a different direction 6 months later after his mother died and he inherited a lot of money. From what you wrote in your first post, I think you would have been happily helping me in my effort.

 

[samclem]

I set up a donor-advised fund (Fidelity makes it super easy) and make sizable contributions each year. I get a big tax deduction, the money grows in the fund, and I "advise" distributions of any amount to any charity at any time. Best of both worlds, I think.

We set up somethign similar using a local community foundation. We get the tax deduction when we send the money to them, they hold the funds and send them to the charities we direct.
This can be a big help in "bunching" charitable deductions (take the standard deduction one year, bunch all the charitable deductions, and any "movable" itemized deduction in "bunches" every other year). This saved us quite a bit in taxes.

 

[thedaily]

Not only does the salesperson make a fat commission, the CEOs of these companies make a very large salary. Plus, these annuity companies are usually in the penthouse of the tallest building in your city. All this money comes straight out of your pocket in the way of high fees. Vanguard charges around 0.20 for their annuity and they're making money. The others are charging 2-3% so just think how much they make from your hard earned money. The downside is what you get in return is a poor product for retirement.

 

[target2019]

Now that I'm retired I am SO tempted to go to one of these "gourmet dinners" and ask the presenters impertinent questions!

Wife and I have been to more than a dozen. It's quite a learning experience. Some of the meals have been excellent.

There trying to identify fish worth hooking. If you eat some bait and swim away, they don't seem to mind. If they can land one trophy fish, it works for the advisors.

 

[rothlev]

It takes two to have a conversation. If you don't talk, they can't sell.

When I was young I remember my parents and friends going to one of those either timeshares or land sales pitches for the free tickets to Disney or something. My father said I'll tell them I can't hear ( he couldn't) and you can't see. Laughing let em try to sell us something.

 

[rothlev]

They were both refugees and could also pretend that couldn't speak much English either.

It takes two to have a conversation. If you don't talk, they can't sell.

 

[haha]

Not only does the salesperson make a fat commission, the CEOs of these companies make a very large salary. Plus, these annuity companies are usually in the penthouse of the tallest building in your city. All this money comes straight out of your pocket in the way of high fees. Vanguard charges around 0.20 for their annuity and they're making money. The others are charging 2-3% so just think how much they make from your hard earned money. The downside is what you get in return is a poor product for retirement.

I don't quite follow you. Does Vanguard have an insurance subsidiary that underwrites annuities, or are you referring to annuities brokered by Vanguard but underwritten by other insurance companies?

Ha

 

[Kimo]

I never understand why the dislike for GOOD, I said good annuities. I bought 3 from Vanguard (I don't work there) @ 100,000 each and would never get rid of them. I did it for the optional rider and had the money put in the Wellington fund. All my expenses combined (death option, mutual fund management, rider) is 0.95%.

If you did change your mind after purchasing you can sell all your shares just like any mutual fund and there are no fees, just like when you buy in, no fees.

They are one leg of my retirement income "stool".

I just don't understand the "hate" for good (no salesman) annuities.

 

[thedaily]

I don't quite follow you. Does Vanguard have an insurance subsidiary that underwrites annuities, or are you referring to annuities brokered by Vanguard but underwritten by other insurance companies?

Ha

I transferred an annuity to Vanguard. I'm pretty sure it is underwritten by Vanguard and not a third party.