Any Dave Ramsey acolyte willing to help me?

Been a fan for 5 years.
1. Not a debt it's $10 do whatever feels good
2. Dave would say payoff and close acct. I still have mine but pay online whenever the urge strikes (weekly?) feel I'm using almost like a debit card.
3. Not a debt.
4. "Kick Sallie Mae out of the house" pay this thing off in the next 12 months extra jobs, garage sales, don't cash out any ira's/401's but do stop contributing until this is paid off.
Not always sound math but there really is a power to focus......
 
This thread has given me a lot to chew on over the past several days.

Fundamentally, my dad advocates a sort of interest rate arbitrage, where if you have a debt at a low fixed interest rate with manageable payments (for example, my student loan), you should pay the minimums, stretch it out as long as possible, and invest the difference in the stock market. Over time, one would expect to come out ahead in this strategy assuming the market averages better than your cost of debt over the long haul.

I can see a lot of truth in my dad's position, and I believe I am able to put that strategy into place over a long period of years. I think my dad's approach would result in greater wealth over the long haul if followed consistently.

As a result of applying that strategy to the greatest degree to which I am able, I have recently been somewhat liquidity constrained -- I've got plenty in savings, plenty in income, but as soon as money rolls into my accounts, I ship it back out to my 401(k), my kids' college, or my taxable savings account. And that has been stressing me out a little.

While I don't think Dave's approach is the greatest wealth-building approach, what I do see is that it can bring a lot more, for lack of a better term, peace. The arbitrage approach is more complicated because you have more accounts, more payments, and there's always that potential lurking in the background of not being able to make the payment (although my payments are very reasonable and I've never missed a payment on anything in over 20 years).

Dave's thing is "Financial Peace University", my dad's would be "Financial Wealth University", and to a certain degree I think the two are incompatible in the journey suggested (I think one would end up largely in a similar spot at the end).

It is a big step for me to stop following my father's advice on something like this.

...

As far as baby step 2 goes, here's an update:

1. I didn't make it very clear that she and I don't borrow or lend to each other. What happens is that, for example, she'll take our son to the doctor's office, and there's a $5 copay. Because it's a medical expense, we have to split it. Instead of having her pay $2 to the doctor and me pay $3 to the doctor, she'll pay the $5 to the doctor to save them the complication. Similarly, I'll pay for something else that she'll owe me for. We keep track of this and every six months or so we'll clear it to $0 by having one of us write a check to the other.

So I updated the tab, and as of this coming Friday she'll owe me $25.33, so I'm going to let it slide.

2. I decided to pay down the credit card by $300. Between that and my monthly rebate from PenFed, I now owe only $141.43. I discovered one can pay online at PenFed now, which is really nice; I didn't know you could do that. I've also decided that I'll only use the PenFed card at the pump and use my debit cards for everything else. I know, not quite the Ramsey plan, but closer.

3. Taking the advice of everyone here and ignoring this one.

4. Student loan. I forgot to include some information on this one originally. I took it out for my Master's degree a few years ago because the rate on my mortgage was 7% and the student loan was at 3.5%. I then paid down my mortgage by a roughly equal amount. So I think I decided a while ago that because of that history, I could consider my student loan to be a part of my mortgage. What do you think?

Finally, I have decided that I am going to go out of order and build up my emergency fund further because that is what is bothering me the most. After that I have my goals lined up in an order I like and will focus on them in turn.

Comments welcome.

2Cor521
 
2Cor, you clearly understand the difference between your plan and Dave's plan. You are a very detailed and disciplined person and will do just fine on your plan.
If you knock out the loan your cash flow will be better and your walk more peaceful. Not easy to prove on a spreadsheet but I believe my productivity and income increased after the payments went away. YMMV
 
4. Student loan. I forgot to include some information on this one originally. I took it out for my Master's degree a few years ago because the rate on my mortgage was 7% and the student loan was at 3.5%. I then paid down my mortgage by a roughly equal amount. So I think I decided a while ago that because of that history, I could consider my student loan to be a part of my mortgage. What do you think?2Cor521

So, what did you use to pay for your master's with? (I read the above as: you took out $X at a student loan rate, then paid off $X of your mortgage, leaving $0 for school). I'm having a hard time getting my brain around this one. Or are you saying that instead of paying off your student loan with extra money you had each month, you made the payments to your mortgage instead, because it had a higher interest rate (and your dad thinks it makes more sense to pay off debt this way?)

Maybe another way to think about this is: what if, instead of "school," you wrote in "boat?" As in, "I took out a 3.5% loan to buy a boat, then paid down my mortgage by the same amount." Would you still consider that loan on the boat as part of your mortgage?

I wouldn't. Your student loan is not your mortgage. It is a separate debt. This is what Dave would say, I think.

Side note: Why not refinance that mortgage? It's at 7%, but the going rate now is around 5%. Refi, and your payments will drop because of lower principal and lower interest rates. Then you can use the additional cash flow to pay off your student loan, or to build up your emergency fund quicker.

Finally, I have decided that I am going to go out of order and build up my emergency fund further because that is what is bothering me the most. After that I have my goals lined up in an order I like and will focus on them in turn.

Comments welcome.

2Cor521

I think this is a fine plan as long as you put a cap on it. You need to be definite as to what's "enough" when it comes to an emergency fund. It's too easy to feel that $1000 isn't enough, $2000 isn't enough, $10,000 isn't enough. I'd say that you need to choose something that can be easily attained, and then really put your oomph behind the debt snowball. Remember that once you've gotten rid of that debt, there are two benefits: First, you'll have more cash flow to build up an emergency fund or invest, and two, your fixed expenses will be lower, so you'll need less cash to meet your budget, giving you an even bigger cushion.

Good luck!
 
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1. Dave does not believe in owing or lending money to family/friends because it introduces a creditor relationship and "the borrower is slave to the lender".
My father in law remarried (unknown to him) a lifelong con artist who got him to accept power of attorney on an account where she embezzled tens of thousands of dollars without his knowledge. If we followed this advice religiously he wouldn't have had the means to pay the restitution which he needed for deal to keep him out of jail as an (unwitting) accessory after she was busted.

Unfortunately we obtained her background check *after* all the damage was done. She's had several aliases and been in and out of jail for the last 40 years. She also racked up nearly $40,000 in credit card debt that he has to pay back. We've told him not to even think about paying us back one dime until those jackals are paid off.
 
I think you are doing pretty well and for the Penfed, if you continue to use it like a debit card at the gas pump by going online and paying it every week then that is a good use of it.

For the student loan, remember that it is with you forever and cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. That would bother me even though it is only 3.5% and I would want to get rid of it.
 
@Urchina,

I took out a student loan and paid for my school with that. I separately received a gift from my parents to pay for school, and used that to pay down my mortgage. Net/net I shifted about $15K from being at 7% to being at 3.5%.

I've subsequently gotten rid of that mortgage and now have about 13 years left on a 15 year fixed at 4.625%.

I have a target of 5 months of emergency fund. At the moment I am at 4.26 months (the Alliant CU account mentioned earlier is not my only source of emergency funds). When I am done with that I will move on to my next goal.

2Cor521
 
I took out a student loan and paid for my school with that. I separately received a gift from my parents to pay for school, and used that to pay down my mortgage. Net/net I shifted about $15K from being at 7% to being at 3.5%.

I've subsequently gotten rid of that mortgage and now have about 13 years left on a 15 year fixed at 4.625%.

I have a target of 5 months of emergency fund. At the moment I am at 4.26 months (the Alliant CU account mentioned earlier is not my only source of emergency funds). When I am done with that I will move on to my next goal.

2Cor521

Dave Ramsey has let you to a good place, and you don't seem to need his advice anymore. Keep doing what you're doing...

As you segue into investment strategies, visit the Boglehead forums.
 
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