Any other long-term CA residents reconsidering their “forever home”?

[Accidental Retiree]

I lived in the SF Bay area from 1968-1973, and in the San Diego area from 1977-1984.

I was one of those oddballs that didn't like living there at all. I don't mean to insult the Californians here.... but.... er.... of all the many (8?) states I have lived in for more than a year, for me, well, Cali was by far my least favorite. I didn't even like the weather; I have never felt colder than I did in the SF area, and the SD area was way too dry for me and for my skin. Weather wasn't my only objection to living in Calif, there were many and for me it just wasn't a good match. So, I was pretty happy when my ex was transferred out of there in 1984. I haven't set foot in California since.

See that's something that I feel a lot of people just don't "get"... no matter where you are, there will be some people that love it and some that hate it. It's just the way of the world. I love living in Louisiana but I know that many (most?) Americans would not put Louisiana at the top of their list. Great! More space for those of us here who love this state.

Anyway, my point is that when someone begins to think of moving to a different state, I think it's time to go on vacations to that state driving your car, so that you can explore it in depth and get familiar with it. No other state is going to be just like California, so keep an open mind about the differences and enjoy the adventure of it! You might find another state that you love just as much or possibly even more. It really can happen.

Funny—how you feel about CA is how I felt about Louisiana. We lived there for a short time during my teen years, and it was the worst place I’ve ever lived. I’d never go back there on purpose if I could possibly avoid it.

I also absolutely loathe the desert and cannot for the life of me understand the appeal of Palm Springs, AZ, NM, etc. as that’s all just a bunch of desolate ugliness I have to endure while driving to the Texas Hill Country. It starts to look better to me east of Ozona, Texas.

Fortunately there’s someplace for all of us, and we can make choices that suit our personal preferences.

My dad was in the oil fields and moved us around quite a bit, starting in south Texas. When he finally ended us up in Orange County in the early 70s, I thought I was in heaven.

To this day, when I drive back over to my old neighborhood, I get an uplifted feeling inside, even though the area has changed. If I had the wherewithal now, that’s where I’d be, and when it comes to downsizing, that area is still top of my list.

But lots of the areas down here in SoCal have deteriorated, as Scuba and others have pointed out. I also have seen those conditions elsewhere—but it seems worse in CA.

We were just in OC yesterday and appalled at the tent villages and random “unhoused” we saw wandering up and down one major boulevard.

On our way home, I asked my husband where, of all the places we’ve visited around the country, he’d choose to live if we HAD to leave CA. Between the two of us we’ve visited a pretty big chunk of the country and looked at it just as W2R suggested. We’ve done that with an eye to relocating in retirement for about the past 20 years. In fact, we already moved once in retirement.

Over 8 years ago, we left the San Francisco Bay Area after 32 years and moved back to SoCal, where we grew up and met and lived in our early married years. We’re between coastal OC and the desert.

We have favorite places we’ve visited, but those places are different from where we’d want to live day to day.

Neither of us could come up with the answer about where else we’d move. We haven’t found anyplace that we like better than we are, but we agreed that we’ve seen enough of the country that we could make a better informed decision if/when the need to move arises.

In the meantime, we love where we live in our little corner of the world and are staying put.

 

[Surewhitey]

First a joke, then a comment.

A father and son are looking at a map. The son says “dad why are there two Californias?”
The dad replies “well son, one used to be Colorado”

We live in Western Colorado or the West Slope as locals call it. We have more neighbors moving in from California, Texas is likely second, then any other place. Our home prices, while high, look better than CA. Our newest neighbor paid cash for a 7 figure home. They moved from the east Bay Area.

This reminds me of the story our neighbors were telling about us when moving back to Dallas in 2015...a year later our DD (who lives 1 street over) was at a block party. Our neighbors were telling her (a year later) about the Mexican drug dealers who moved into the neighborhood. "They moved here from Mexico, got a black pit & paid cash for the house".

DD asked what house number they were at... "that's my parents!". No telling how many people know our profession

 

[SheitlQueen]

Oregon, especially Multnomah county (Portland) is getting to be quite expensive too. And the city is going downhill fast in terms of livability.

Unfortunately Oregon is becoming less and less attractive to live in....the whole state is going downhill, although Portland is the worst. I've had quite a few friends move away and several more that are working on it. For the first time in my life I am seriously considering moving too. I hate to do it, I feel like I'm being chased from my long time home, but eventually a time comes when enough is enough. I am considering several areas and the only reason I haven't moved yet is I can't decide where to go.

 

[Franklin]

First a joke, then a comment.

A father and son are looking at a map. The son says “dad why are there two Californias?”
The dad replies “well son, one used to be Colorado”

We live in Western Colorado or the West Slope as locals call it. We have more neighbors moving in from California, Texas is likely second, then any other place. Our home prices, while high, look better than CA. Our newest neighbor paid cash for a 7 figure home. They moved from the east Bay Area.

No Joke here!!. We sold our past and final house in Cali (Pasadena). We sold for $1000 sq ft. We purchased in Georgia on the water for $210 sq ft. I do miss the weather in Cali but the cost of living and politics are insane. Now, something to know that is important to those leaving the state. Even though I legally live in another state now.... the California State Franchise Tax Board insists any income I receive (that was made while I lived in Cali) must be subject to Cali State Tax when received. This means any deferred income that I socked away until retirement will be taxed by Cali for the next 10 years. They make it very hard to escape to a lower and more friendly tax environment. Just be aware Cali has a long arm to claw back after your departure. So, while not a resident I am still paying Cali for pretax dollars earned in the State. Only good news is you can claim it as a tax credit in the state you now live. But it is still worth the tax hit IMHO.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

No Joke here!!. We sold our past and final house in Cali (Pasadena). We sold for $1000 sq ft. We purchased in Georgia on the water for $210 sq ft. I do miss the weather in Cali but the cost of living and politics are insane. Now, something to know that is important to those leaving the state. Even though I legally live in another state now.... the California State Franchise Tax Board insists any income I receive (that was made while I lived in Cali) must be subject to Cali State Tax when received. This means any deferred income that I socked away until retirement will be taxed by Cali for the next 10 years. They make it very hard to escape to a lower and more friendly tax environment. Just be aware Cali has a long arm to claw back after your departure. So, while not a resident I am still paying Cali for pretax dollars earned in the State. Only good news is you can claim it as a tax credit in the state you now live. But it is still worth the tax hit IMHO.

Interesting.

Are you talking about IRA withdrawals? Or some other income like deferred compensation?

I know CalPERS pensions are not taxed once you leave the state, although they certainly tried—unless something has changed.

If you keep a business here or keep real estate that generates income, then yes, there is an ongoing tax burden for that. And if you have a large enough presence in the state after moving out, it’s my understanding that will keep PERS pensions in their clutches.

How long have you lived in GA and for how many tax years have you lived in GA and paid taxes on CA-earned income?

I’m definitely not a tax expert and would not keep any ties here were we to move, but nothing I’ve read so far addresses CA taxing IRA or PERS if we’d otherwise severed all other ties to the state, so I’d like to know more.

 

[Teacher Terry]

26 years ago when I finished graduate school for the second time there were no jobs in my small field so I was looking nationally. I have lived in 5 states. All of the states did phone interviews because they didn’t want to pay to fly people out. I had an offer with 10 states and didn’t know what to do. My mom had been to Reno many times and convinced me that I would love it which I do. I never applied with the state of California mainly because when you work in human services it’s too expensive. I also need 4 seasons and can’t live where it’s warm all the time.

We have very few bugs and low humidity. Californians have been moving here at a steady pace all these years. Thankfully I bought property as soon as I moved here or I would be priced out now with housing prices and rents being ridiculous. The downside is that Californians have raised our entire COL. The news reported that our houses cost more than Sacramento. My oldest son and his wife live here and I would never leave between them, my friends and excellent weather.

 

[rodi]

< Mod hat on >

Please refrain from partisan politics in this thread. And as usual, be respectful of people with differing opinions... Generic state bashing has never ended well in the past..

< Mod hat off >

 

[Montecfo]

Well I have toyed with the idea of moving to California, but the lived experience of people from there tends to stop me short. There must be a reason why so many folks are deciding to leave paradise, I have decided. And our travels to the Caribbean have dramatically reduced the allure of continental US beaches, similar to Scuba's comment.

I have enjoyed everywhere I have lived. But all have been good places :Texas, Arizona, and Virginia.

California? highest net outmigration of any state. Followed by NY and Illinois.

Highest in-migration? Florida, Texas, Arizona

We are open to moving as soon as we find someplace better than Loudoun County. The increasingly wacky school situation would give us pause if we had kids in school.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

< Mod hat on >

Please refrain from partisan politics in this thread. And as usual, be respectful of people with differing opinions... Generic state bashing has never ended well in the past..

< Mod hat off >

Thanks for the reminder, Rodi.

Over my years on this forum, it has seemed to me that California and relocating Californians have taken the brunt of negative comments in relocation threads.

As a native Texan who moved to CA as a teen and immediately loved this state, I open this kind of thread with a sense of doom and even a little defensiveness.

But I also and sit back for the discussion to see whether anything new comes up.

 

[Jimonlimon]

I'm a lifelong California resident with a house bought in 1992. Planning to retire in the next year or two. Short answer is we will probably stay in our southern LA County home unless grandchildren appear somewhere far away.


Whenever I "run the numbers" to estimate post-retirement taxes here vs other states I'm surprised at what I see.

For our married filing jointly gross taxable income of about $150k including pension and SS, California income taxes would be $2000/year or about 1.3% of our gross. Prior to drawing SS when I need to pull from taxable 401k they go way up to $6k or 4% of our gross income since the state tax rates are very progressive and SS isn't taxed.

On top of our regular income for spending, we will probably pull more out or at least do Roth conversion but if we're still here in California I would delay that until we're drawing SS since that money isn't taxable here . (Pre-medicare health insurance and post-medicare IRMAA is subsidized by my pension)

Our real estate taxes are $4k/year.

Sales taxes around $2-4k most years. Groceries aren't taxed and most of our fairly large planned spending on travel will be taxed wherever we go, not here.

Petrofuels are very expensive here but we don't drive much. Electricity rates are very high but we don't pay anything since solar covers 100% of our bill at least through 2035 when our sweet net metering deal comes up for renewal.

In my industry pay here is 50% above the national average so even though our costs are high I think we came out ahead dollar wise.

After retirement it might make sense for us to move out of state for a few years and convert all of our 401k to Roth- but with a total portfolio of $1 million it would save at most $60k in taxes. Definitely not worth selling our house over if we ever hope to return to California.

Considering state income, property, and sales taxes several of the "tax friendly for retirees" states stop looking friendly. Oregon is the worst- If we bought a similar house there for 3/4 the value of ours the property taxes would more than double. Income taxes would be much higher. No sales tax though. Nevada is better but the only area I'd consider (Reno to Minden) is extremely expensive lately. Texas would eat all the income tax savings and more with higher property tax. Florida NO. New Hampshire BRR! Nashville maybe?

Then we get to the real issue- If one or both of our kids were to set down roots somewhere far away we would be tempted to move closer- especially if there were grandchildren. We don't expect this to happen for several years as they're both in college.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

The people leaving are not the ones doing the manual labor you're referring to.

Maybe not but I guarantee the ones coming in are and that underground economy does not show up in the statistics.

 

[hiker88]

I'm another resident of California who will likely stay put. Here in Ventura where I live, the weather along with the nearby beach and mountains make the higher cost of living worth it.

 

[Major Tom]

I'm another resident of California who will likely stay put.

Me too. I have family and friends here, and I'd like to remain fairly close to them. My housing situation is very affordable. It's a housing co-op which, I must admit, I don't love, as I'm not keen on meetings and most kinds of group activity. However, the house is great and the rent is cheap. I feel rooted in my neighborhood. If I ever move out, I'll most likely stay in CA, though may go a bit further out from the Bay Area in search of slightly more affordable housing. Maybe Robbie's part of the world?

I like it here. I know people. It's comfortable. I'm sure there are many other places that I would also enjoy, but I don't need to try them all.

PS - I know that weather isn't everything, but I'm of the opinion that SF East Bay weather is pretty close to perfect. It's warmer than SF, but cooler than the central valley. If it gets really hot, all we have to day is wait for a few days, and the weather breaks and cools down again. We get sun, overcast days, a little wind and rain. Enough variation to keep things interesting, but no extreme weather. Pretty great for people who like to be outdoors.

 

[Freedom56]

In the 90's, California was the 7th largest economy in the world. In 2023 it is on track to become the 4th largest economy in the world displacing Germany. So the exodus has hasn't impacted growth. Also California has some of the best public universities in the world attracting the best and brightest from all over country and the world. Many of those who come to study, find high paying jobs and stay here. We live in a global economy. Major urban centers like New York, San Francisco, and Los Angeles and surrounding areas will always attract international investment and tourism. That won't change anytime soon.

 

[Born2BRetd]

I'm a fifth generation Californian with all of my family and friends here. This is home and I have no plans to move.

 

[oiseux]

Well you are passing on one of the happiest cities in America.

snip

Here are the 10 places where Americans are happiest, according to SmartAsset’s findings:

1- Sunnyvale, California
Snip

This is kind of funny to me that the #1 city used to have a nickname "scummyvale". (I have no strong opinions supporting that, and even have relatives and colleagues who live there)

Anyways, when we looked at the purposed tax savings of moving, in retirement, the gap does indeed narrow for most income levels due to Prop 13/19. Although taxes are sometimes cited as a reason for moving, it often isn't too material. In reality, the move may be driven by other issues, like the cost of living or other things.

I believe the prior poster talking about deferred compensation being taxed is referring to the deferred comp plans available to eligible employees to defer taxation until the future. I have no problem with getting taxed on deferred income. We were allowed to defer taxation on the promise that we'd pay in the future, when we would enjoy a lower rate. (For the record, I would be covered by such a situation). It's different than 401K programs because the pay begins as soon as you stop employment.

We may still move eventually (including extensive time overseas). But we do like the availability of wide varieties of foods (restaurants and specialty stores), services, health care, indoor and outdoor recreations, geography and weather. But we haven't found anything yet worth the move, especially long term when there may be shifts in weather and resources.

The homeless situation, while still a big problem, has improved in the last six months in my area through some increased programs and lower tolerance for bad behavior as the pandemic turned into an endemic. More still needs to be done.

 

[mojavesue]

I'm one of the poor native Californians who left San Diego area in the late 80s. Long story short, I grew up in Ohio and once graduated high school went back to San Diego to be near my Mother. I loved living there but decided to leave for Las Vegas for COL issues. Wife and I have done well in Vegas and are now retired. A few years ago we bought a place in northern New Mexico to escape the summer heat. Not sure how long we'll have both places but I dont think I will ever sell our Vegas home. I often think about looking for a place in the San Diego area. We could sell both homes and get something down there. For now though, we are happy having both places. Our COL in New Mexico very low compared to Vegas.

 

[Spock]

Anybody looking to leave CA yet not go to far and stay out of the cold, I'll be listing a 5BR/3BA/2900sqft 3car garage for sale in Tucson later this month...
400ish miles to San Diego straight over on I8.
This whole area is ocean front property... the last tide went out a couple of million years ago and won't be coming back in for a while yet.

 

[Franklin]

Interesting.

Are you talking about IRA withdrawals? Or some other income like deferred compensation?

I know CalPERS pensions are not taxed once you leave the state, although they certainly tried—unless something has changed.

If you keep a business here or keep real estate that generates income, then yes, there is an ongoing tax burden for that. And if you have a large enough presence in the state after moving out, it’s my understanding that will keep PERS pensions in their clutches.

How long have you lived in GA and for how many tax years have you lived in GA and paid taxes on CA-earned income?

I’m definitely not a tax expert and would not keep any ties here were we to move, but nothing I’ve read so far addresses CA taxing IRA or PERS if we’d otherwise severed all other ties to the state, so I’d like to know more.

I am speaking about Deferred Income that you may have made in Cali but deferred taking it until years down the road. I lived in Cali for 22 years and deferred as much as possible. Moved to Ga 3 years ago and was notified any monies I now receive from working in Cali is subject to Cali state tax. Now even though I have not been a resident for 3 years I still must pony up. Ive appealed but to no avail. Ive had several tax lawyers offer to asset but they want retainers up front. It is called source tax (outlawed in some states but not Cali). Its interesting because I made the $ all over the US but I lived in L.A. Now I warn business owners that if they sell out and move to the tax free states.....beware as Cali will claim you earned the value of your company while in Cali!!

 

[Franklin]

I am speaking about Deferred Income that you may have made in Cali but deferred taking it until years down the road. I lived in Cali for 22 years and deferred as much as possible. Moved to Ga 3 years ago and was notified any monies I now receive from working in Cali is subject to Cali state tax. Now even though I have not been a resident for 3 years I still must pony up. Ive appealed but to no avail. Ive had several tax lawyers offer to asset but they want retainers up front. It is called source tax (outlawed in some states but not Cali). Its interesting because I made the $ all over the US but I lived in L.A. Now I warn business owners that if they sell out and move to the tax free states.....beware as Cali will claim you earned the value of your company while in Cali!!

But I still love the weather!!

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Real Californians don’t say “Cali”
[emoji37]

 

[Major Tom]

What is a "real" Californian?

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

What is a "real" Californian?

Lots of ads. Some pictures are not suitable for work. A screen shot of slide 5 for your viewing pleasure.

However I do need to say that removing “the” from in front of the freeway number is a Southern California thing. Until they started migrating up this way. [emoji38]

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/arti...fornia-stereotype-11438280.php#photo-10173916

 

[Tafkah]

After living and visiting most areas of the US over my lifetime, I can say that the SF bay area is definitely my forever home, nowhere else even comes close. I love being able to ride my bike every month of the year. Today wasn't quite a "short sleeve" day, but tomorrow should be. I love never having to worry about frozen pipes, shoveling snow or slipping on the ice. Summer humidity is low, so even the rare 100 degree day doesn't feel oppressively hot.

Prop 13 keeps my property tax to a very reasonable amount. In Texas, I'd be paying three times as much. California doesn't tax Social Security income, and there's no sales tax on food. State income tax rates are very progressive, so if you can keep your AGI low, you won't pay much tax.

I ain't going no place.

 

[RetiredAt49]

After living and visiting most areas of the US over my lifetime, I can say that the SF bay area is definitely my forever home, nowhere else even comes close. I love being able to ride my bike every month of the year. Today wasn't quite a "short sleeve" day, but tomorrow should be. I love never having to worry about frozen pipes, shoveling snow or slipping on the ice. Summer humidity is low, so even the rare 100 degree day doesn't feel oppressively hot.

Prop 13 keeps my property tax to a very reasonable amount. In Texas, I'd be paying three times as much. California doesn't tax Social Security income, and there's no sales tax on food. State income tax rates are very progressive, so if you can keep your AGI low, you won't pay much tax.

I ain't going no place.

Glad you are enjoying Cali! By all means stay there because we have already been bombarded by folks (from California) flocking to our home state [emoji2].