Anyone Know Banks That Don't Require SSNs for POD's?

[OldShooter]

Just to be clear, what I am talking about and others (probably) too is not a trust (aka "living trust") that is created prior to death. What I am talking about is testamentary trusts that are created on death, legal "persons" that are beneficiaries of some or all of the estate.

An example from our plan, we have two sons. One is likely to be a spendthrift and the other is financially very naive. 1/3 of the estate goes to various charities and 1/3 goes into each of the boys' trusts. The trusts will be professionally managed. Each trust document goes into some detail about what money the boys will receive but leaves the trustee with considerable discretion to deal with future events. For one example, if one becomes very ill and needs home health services, the trustee can pay for that. Also, the $$ of the trust are protected against a divorcing spouse taking some of our money and are protected if there is a judgment against one of the boys. The trust documents also specify what happens to the $$ on death of the principal beneficiary.

A "living" trust is AFIK primarily designed to benefit the lawyers.

 

[RunningBum]

One of my many failings as a confirmed cheapskate is that I tend to look at expenses in terms of dollars rather than putting them in context. I wonder if that is happening here.

Let's just say that a good estate plan with health care powers, POAs, and a couple of testamentary trusts would cost $5K. (Ours was $4K.)

I would say that if this $5K was a small single-digit percentage of the estate, it would be a good investment in order to make sure that the estate $ went where they were supposed to go and were used wisely by the recipients.

Same-o for professional trust administration except its much easier because the charges are stated as a percentage. We just switched our testamentary trusts to Schwab and IIRC their sticker-price fee was 50bps vs megabank at 1.5%. Pretty cheap for professional stewardship of the assets we are leaving to support our heirs, even ignoring the benefit of having a professional in the line of fire versus a family member.

I agree but I saw no advantage to a trust over my TOD at Vanguard plus a will to cover the other bits and pieces. And as I said in the continuation of that sentence, I'd lose flexibility. My brother adopted a girl? A few key strokes and she's included in my TOD. With a trust I'd have to pay my attorney to make that update, as I understand it. So pay $4000 (I think that's about what my attorney quoted me) and lose flexibility, with no gains that I can see for my case? I know I can be cheap, but in this case I think it's prudent. It could be $100 and I still don't think I'd want it. TOD works for me because my case is simple. My TOD distributes a good portion of my VG account mostly to my son, with some going to other relatives. My real estate also has TODs going to my son. The rest of my stuff all goes to my son via the will, and he is set as beneficiary of my IRAs and other accounts. If my situation gets more complicated I'll gladly pay up for a trust if that's what it takes to make sure things go smoothly.

Maybe I'm wrong about how easy a TOD is at VG. My understanding is that VG opens an account for each beneficiary for their part to go into. Each person can then keep the account, sell everything off and close the account, or transfer into their own account at VG or elsewhere. Sounds as easy as anything. Is the reality a lot different from that?

 

[jazz4cash]

Just to be clear, what I am talking about and others (probably) too is not a trust (aka "living trust") that is created prior to death. What I am talking about is testamentary trusts that are created on death, legal "persons" that are beneficiaries of some or all of the estate.

An example from our plan, we have two sons. One is likely to be a spendthrift and the other is financially very naive. 1/3 of the estate goes to various charities and 1/3 goes into each of the boys' trusts. The trusts will be professionally managed. Each trust document goes into some detail about what money the boys will receive but leaves the trustee with considerable discretion to deal with future events. For one example, if one becomes very ill and needs home health services, the trustee can pay for that. Also, the $$ of the trust are protected against a divorcing spouse taking some of our money and are protected if there is a judgment against one of the boys. The trust documents also specify what happens to the $$ on death of the principal beneficiary.

A "living" trust is AFIK primarily designed to benefit the lawyers.

Every resource I’ve found states that a testamentary trust will not bypass probate. Maybe that’s not an issue if real estate is not involved in the OPs scenario. I’m helping someone with an issue that brought the limitations on this type of trust to light. The person I’m working with has same opinion of living trust as you do. I agree with the sentiment that the living trust is worth low single digit percentage of the estate. Or you can get one online for $39.99.

 

[njhowie]

Checked with our current banks and both require SSNs of Payable On Death beneficiaries.

Are there banks that won't require this?

Fidelity does not require the SSN - it indicates that it is optional. Relationship (Spouse, Non-spouse, Trust, or Entity), Name and Birthdate are required.

I just went to the beneficiaries screen in my account to verify this.

 

[OldShooter]

Every resource I’ve found states that a testamentary trust will not bypass probate. ...

I'm pretty sure I never said it did & I don't think it does. The purpose of a testamentary trust is to protect, manage and distribute the estate's assets after the grantor's death.

I have no reason to be concerned about probate. DW, who retired as a megabank SVP and business unit manager in Investments and Trust has seen many, many estates settled and has never even mentioned probate as something of concern. Ditto our attorney, who is one of the best that DW knows. (I wonder if this widespread fear of probate has been created by the living trust salespeople.)

There seem to be many here who want to do their own lawyering. I do not. With respect to estates, if there are problems they will appear after it becomes impossible to fix them. Literally after "game over." DW has seen a lot of this, even with documents drawn by lawyers who claim to be specialists. Sometimes she has had to go to court to get approval to fix problems. This is a cost to the estate, a delay, and the "fix" may not be consistent with the (then unknown) wishes of the decedent.

The aphorism I remember from long ago is "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client." I suppose it needs to be fixed up for sexist language these days, though.

... I’m helping someone with an issue that brought the limitations on this type of trust to light. ...

Are you a lawyer?

 

[jazz4cash]

I'm pretty sure I never said it did & I don't think it does. The purpose of a testamentary trust is to protect, manage and distribute the estate's assets after the grantor's death.

I have no reason to be concerned about probate. DW, who retired as a megabank SVP and business unit manager in Investments and Trust has seen many, many estates settled and has never even mentioned probate as something of concern. Ditto our attorney, who is one of the best that DW knows. (I wonder if this widespread fear of probate has been created by the living trust salespeople.)

There seem to be many here who want to do their own lawyering. I do not. With respect to estates, if there are problems they will appear after it becomes impossible to fix them. Literally after "game over." DW has seen a lot of this, even with documents drawn by lawyers who claim to be specialists. Sometimes she has had to go to court to get approval to fix problems. This is a cost to the estate, a delay, and the "fix" may not be consistent with the (then unknown) wishes of the decedent.

The aphorism I remember from long ago is "A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client." I suppose it needs to be fixed up for sexist language these days, though.

Are you a lawyer?

NOPE. Just trying to help someone that expressed interest and does not want to use a lawyer. I only mentioned this because the OP mentioned specifically that they wish to avoid probate. The individual I am trying to help stated that avoiding probate was their #1 priority.

 

[gooddog]

Just did this at Chase, and they did not require SSN, but had to know birth date.

 

[mexexpat]

@gooddog...thanks for the tip.

 

[meleana]

One of my on line banks does not even allow POD- which is very annoying to me. It is a joint account with my husband and I don't want to put our adult son's name on it yet as to have it tied in with his assets. He could get married in the future or whatever, etc.



POD would be perfect, but they just don't allow it, I don't know why. We don't have a revocable living trust set up yet either. Just a will.

 

[jazz4cash]

One of my on line banks does not even allow POD- which is very annoying to me. It is a joint account with my husband and I don't want to put our adult son's name on it yet as to have it tied in with his assets. He could get married in the future or whatever, etc.



POD would be perfect, but they just don't allow it, I don't know why. We don't have a revocable living trust set up yet either. Just a will.

Are you willing to share which bank this is? I would like to avoid using it.

I opened a regional brokerage account and realized afterwards that they never offered to establish a beneficiary for the account. It was like pulling teeth to get it done and left a bad taste in my mouth. I moved the funds to Fido after a year or so due to this and some other concerns. Now I can't figure out if I have any beneficiaries for my Bank of America account. No info on thier website. Fido and Vanguard send reminders constantly about verifying beneficiary info.

 

[Sunset]

Are you willing to share which bank this is? I would like to avoid using it.

I opened a regional brokerage account and realized afterwards that they never offered to establish a beneficiary for the account. It was like pulling teeth to get it done and left a bad taste in my mouth. I moved the funds to Fido after a year or so due to this and some other concerns. Now I can't figure out if I have any beneficiaries for my Bank of America account. No info on thier website. Fido and Vanguard send reminders constantly about verifying beneficiary info.

I HATE when banks do this.
One reason I really like Ally bank is you can add/remove beneficiaries online and see them any time.
They treat any CD as a separate account so you have to add them for each CD, but it's just a matter of check boxes as they list the possible ones you already have. So easy.

I have phoned banks to ask and make sure my beneficiary is correct at times.

 

[meleana]

Are you willing to share which bank this is? I would like to avoid using it.

I opened a regional brokerage account and realized afterwards that they never offered to establish a beneficiary for the account. It was like pulling teeth to get it done and left a bad taste in my mouth. I moved the funds to Fido after a year or so due to this and some other concerns. Now I can't figure out if I have any beneficiaries for my Bank of America account. No info on thier website. Fido and Vanguard send reminders constantly about verifying beneficiary info.

Yes. It is Capital One. I know Discover Bank does allow beneficiaries. I really should move my money there but it is such a hassle as I have multiple accounts.



What is Fido? A bank?

 

[jazz4cash]

Thanks
Fido is Fidelity. Sorry!