Are non-COLA pensions and annuities (SPIAs) the same?

Don't quote me, but I'm thinking SPIAs are insurance products. So, they would probably be backed by the same pool organization that backs insurance companies in case of bankruptcies.

There are State guarantees on SPIAs - within limits.

A search for "state annuity guarantee limits" may bear fruit.

This was valuable information. Thank you!

I ended up at this site: Guaranty Association Laws, which indicates coverage is similar to FDIC at $250k per person per institution in my state.

So for the $500k I'm considering using, I would need to purchase two $250k policies from different institutions. Great to know!

My reasons have more to do with protecting my aging self from bad decisions than thinking it's a great investment.
I don't think this rationale gets enough attention. People who may be great at handling investments at 50 may/ or may not - be able to do so at 80. It is one reason that I prefer to have some fixed (relatively reliable/ automatic) income in the mix.

That is another point I hadn't thought about, plus simplifying things for DW if I get hit by a bus.
 
@Finally FI - you need to be careful here regarding how this works.

This was valuable information. Thank you!

I ended up at this site: Guaranty Association Laws, which indicates coverage is similar to FDIC at $250k per person per institution in my state.

So for the $500k I'm considering using, I would need to purchase two $250k policies from different institutions. Great to know!


You are covered up to the limit which is the amount that will be paid to you (max). So if you buy a $250K annuity and live a long time (while your insurance company does not live a long time), you could be covered but still your income stream could stop (once the total amount reaches $250K).

dave
 
I don't think this rationale gets enough attention. People who may be great at handling investments at 50 may/ or may not - be able to do so at 80. It is one reason that I prefer to have some fixed (relatively reliable/ automatic) income in the mix.

And then there is the issue (explored in another thread) on what happens when the money minding spouse is the first to die. I have advised the young wife to take the annuity payout of my life insurance death benefit rather than the lump sum. Since my social security goes away when I do (the GPO precludes her from receiving any survivor benefit), the annuity payout will most closely mimic the monthly cash flow we currently enjoy from social security. She won't have to wrestle with investing.
 
SPIAs

While higher interest rates have indeed increased the SPIA payouts over the last year or so, SPIA purchasers can also now buy SPIAs that have most of the traditional commissions stripped out. Hence, payouts are often higher than found on broker websites. These SPIAs have been built for the fee-only RIA marketplace (who don't get paid by commissions) and the RIA may charge a fee for the service of assisting. It's not accurate to refer to these SPIAs as commission-free as there is typically a small commission or administrative fee built into the pricing to handle the actual, eventual SPIA purchase with a licensed broker who works with the insurer.
 
I guess the government and my former employer consider SPIA's and non-cola pensions the same thing as my non-cola pension was converted (by my employer) to a SPIA (owned by an insurance company - pair of them to be accurate here).

dave
 
Private pensions are especially convoluted. And I assume no government pensions are lump sum optioned. In fact, my ild employer no longer offers pensions and hasn’t for maybe 15 years. There were added benefits in mine that were always shifting, but a lump sum option never materialized. It started as a COLA pension that was partial contributory and ended with no COLA, but added Medicare subsidies if you go through their broker. The subsidy depended on years of service and they do adjust every year with Medicare costs. They don’t cover all of it but I can’t complain about an extra $2200/yr. Since some of the pension details we’re grandfathered, I do get a COLA, but usually about $25/mo, each year, LOL, and about $20/mo of it is tax free from the early contributions. Better than a stick in the eye, but compared to total, fairly insignificant The lump sum equivalent would have to have been well north of $1.5 M and I doubt I would have taken it anyway. It is very stressless to see those checks (pensions and SS) go in every month, plus I do monthly auto withdrawals from Fidelity, and pretty much leave everything alone now, with only the odd expensive trip or purchase requiring any action.
 
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And then there is the issue (explored in another thread) on what happens when the money minding spouse is the first to die. I have advised the young wife to take the annuity payout of my life insurance death benefit rather than the lump sum. Since my social security goes away when I do (the GPO precludes her from receiving any survivor benefit), the annuity payout will most closely mimic the monthly cash flow we currently enjoy from social security. She won't have to wrestle with investing.

An excellent point. +1

I knew a woman whose was left with about 5 million dollars upon the death of her husband. His business partners bought out her share of the business as she had no interest in continuing to be a partner. To prevent it from being squandered by the high fee wealth management types who circled her like buzzards, and her two worthless kids, her nephew, who had some business smarts, used most of the money to buy her various single premium annuities, some with starting dates in the area of 5 to 12 years into the future. The last I heard she had more money than she could spend.

The wealth managers and her spendthrift kids simply could not get much money out of her. And her nephew didn’t give a hoot what his cousins thought of him.
 
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I have a corporate pension as well as a military pension. I do not believe that I appreciated either until I started receiving them monthly. The military pension has a COLA but not the other. It's amazing how much the COLA juices it up, forever!
 
My primary concern at this stage is SORR if we experience an extended market downturn. And a secondary concern is not doing things we'd like to because we're paranoid, and then having piles of money when we're too old to enjoy it.

You have had some very good replies.
I'll add some random thoughts you may, or may not, find useful.


The problem with i-ORP, and all similar tools, including home built spreadsheets, is you have to make assumptions. Nobody knows what will happen with ACA, or inflation rates, or investment returns, or many other things. The advantage of these tools is you can change your assumptions and look at the variety of possible outcomes.


A non-COLA pension is essentially the same thing as a simple SPIA. You are trading a "lump sum" for a fixed monthly income. The nice thing about an SPIA is you can buy as much, or as little, pension as you want.


My retirement is being funded mostly from a lump sum I saved over many years. I'm using some of that lump sum to buy SPIA. I think having a fixed monthly income that will never stop helps with SORR - you have identified the dual edge sword of SORR - You might not have enough, or you might have been able to spend more.



I'm 99% sure my decisions will not be optimal. I'm also 99% sure they will be good enough.
 
There are State guarantees on SPIAs - within limits.

A search for "state annuity guarantee limits" may bear fruit.

There is no such state guarantee. The insurance companies are required to fund these state guarantee associations in each state.

The state is not going to bail out said association if for some reason it goes bankrupt.
 
Thank you for all of the replies! Rather than quote and respond individually, I'm just going to write.

When I took the lump sum option for my main pension, I essentially "traded" the future non-COLA payments for that lump sum. I planned to then trade that lump sum for an SPIA. You have verified that those two are essentially the same, with the caveats around bankruptcy guarantees for each institution.

While maybe not optimized, benefits include diversification, sleeping better at night through market fluctuations, financial simplification and continued income for DW if something happens to me; a good trade-off.

Our annual expenses since 2018 have averaged $30k, not including healthcare, home renovation, or new car costs. For $500k (cash value of my pensions), ImmediateAnnuities.com shows a $32k annual payout, which would cover almost all of our expenses after taxes.

That would leave the rest of our portfolio to cover everything else, most of which (except for healthcare costs) is optional.

Does that sound about right or did I miss something?

And is there any benefit to choosing a 10-year MYGA over an SPIA if we have no heirs?
 
I had a choice between my pension and a lump sum. I took the pension (non-cola). Mainly for diversification. With my pension and SS, I can live pretty well. My portfolio is essentially there to cover inflation.
I had the same offer on my pension, and I also opted for the payments. I would have liked the lump sum, but the offer at the time was roughly 55% of what an annuity would have cost for that same payment amount. I told myself if they had gotten to at least 80%, I would have chosen the lump sum.

Funny thing, along the lines of this topic, the Megacorp stopped accruing pension benefits about a year after a period of time where they laid hundreds of us off. Those who had enough pension credits had their pensions frozen, and those who didn't have enough credits or were new employees no longer had a pension.

Fast-forward to the beginning of 2022, and the Megacorp farmed out their pension offerings to an insurance company for an equivalent annuity payment. Difference here is if the insurance company goes under, the insurance only covers up to each state's insured limits.
 
This may have been mentioned upthread, but I didn't see it as I skimmed. May also get lost in the rounding, but consider taxes in your comparison. Especially state tax. I think some states don't tax pensions (??). Also some of spia payment is considered a return of capital & not taxable -- hopefully a spia person will confirm that. Perhaps that varies based on age when buying??
 
I have read more than a few articles suggesting that "most" pensions are better by taking the pay-outs rather than buying an annuity with the lump sum. Of course, if a person knew they had a short life ahead, the lump sum might well be a better choice.

Some folks think they can do better themselves with the lump sum. I'd just say "maybe" they can. YMMV
 
And is there any benefit to choosing a 10-year MYGA over an SPIA if we have no heirs?

I've seen some sentiment that you should always 'ladder' spias. Not much of a ladder with only 2 or 3 rungs, but gives you chance to get more favorable rate. Which leads to the point of saying, if in doubt, do a 5 or 10 year myga with a portion of your money & keep that option open until later. Might depend on the rates available at trigger pulling time
 
That has been my thinking as well, although SS is still 4 to 12 years out, depending on when I take it.
Does that sound about right or did I miss something?

If shopping for an annuity, the best terms available for an annuity are to delay SS. More bang for your buck than any commercial product. This gets mentioned here often, but not in this thread so far. Individual circumstances may still override it, but delaying SS is very likely the best use of annuity purchase dollars. If you want more after that, then top off with a commercial product.
 
That's exactly the purpose our annuity is going to serve :)
It will pay out about 2k a month for 6 years and bridge from my retirement to my social security at 70.
DW's social security will provide us a COLA in a few years.
 
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