Are you fitter than the average guy? (article)

[Midpack]

the article states -"run as fast and as far as you can" [during a 12-minute period. At the end of the time, calculate your overall distance using the track].

It seems to me, that the clearest directions would be, "keep running as fast as you can, and keep that up for 12 minutes, and we will see how far you go".

That clears it up...

 

[ERD50]

Got curious enough to google cooper test, and it wasn't clear just what the population was in the studies I saw, but there sure were a lot of references to using this in the military.

Bottom line for me is, I really question if the author threw this off with the comment "how do you compare with other guys your age". I suspect that this was not an overall cross-section of the population in each age group, but some sub-set.

Oh well, it was just an observation anyway - back to my 'honey-do' list.


-ERD50

 

[haha]

It has not only been seen in studies but anyone who has lived in this world any amount of time has observed that "fitness" as indicated by "exercise output" does not equal "health".

Dr Henry Solomon: The exercise myth | ENCOGNITIVE.COM

His book is The Exercise Myth. He has enormous cred. I believe this is the guy who at one time, set a record for fastest mile for a man over 50. As they used to say back in the 70s when jogging was already being debunked "Exercise won't add years to your life but it can add life to your years." If it makes you feel better do it but don't think you're acquiring some sort of invulnerability or "Mortality Brownie Points". And not exercising is not a sign or cause of future bad health. Eat, drink, do some push-ups, and be merry

Ther does not seem to be a date on this interview. Yet it states that "ten years ago Dr Solomon shocked the world with his study of exercise". I suppose that they mean his popular 1984 book, The Exercise Myth. That puts this interview in 1994, almost 20 years ago. A lot has been studied since that, so I am not sure it is best to base one's attitude toward exercise on an interview almost 20 years out of date.

This may be one more area where moderation has its rewards. Interesting too that Dr Solomon does not advocate caouch sitting or a sedentary life. He says merely that a brisk walk is sufficient. And for health as oposed to athletic fitness, it may be all you need. But it may also require more walking than is commonly accepted
.
Ha

 

[RunningBum]

Actually, the article states -"run as fast and as far as you can".

Some of us are not sure what that means. "Run as far as you can" might mean pacing yourself to maximize distance over 12 minutes. Sprinting at the start might be counter-productive?

That would take experience to know about pacing, and I assume they want to test people w/o prior experience with this test. It seems to me, that the clearest directions would be, "keep running as fast as you can, and keep that up for 12 minutes, and we will see how far you go". Right, you just keep pushing yourself to go as fast as you can, start out sprinting and you will naturally slow down as you tire out.

-ERD50

[-]No, that's not the clearest direction, because running as fast as you can from the start won't give you the farthest distance you can run. If you tell people to run as fast as they can for 30 seconds, then 12 minutes, then for one hour, nobody in their right mind is going to start off at the same pace all 3 times. I doubt anyone could hit the 99%ile for 12 minutes starting off in a dead sprint.[/-]

Ah hell, forget it. It's not worth it. Like I said, there's not a whole lot of point to the test. And if you do it, hopefully you'll give the directions more than 10 seconds of thought.

And as for overexercising, there's some anecdotal evidence but not a lot of real research to prove it causes harm. This month's Outside magazine covers both sides of the issue. Keith George, head of the Research Institute for Sport and Exercise Sciences at Liverpool John Moore's University says otherwise, and as part of it published a study of 165 finishers of the Western States 100 mile run (which requires a qualifying race, so everyone who runs it has run at least one, and probably many, ultramarathons). He found their hearts were perfectly normal for athletes. If Jim Fixx hadn't been a runner, for all we know he'd have died 10 years earlier shoveling snow.

 

[ls99]

I quit running the day of discharge from the Army reserves where I spent 11 years beyond active duty.

Is there an alternative method?

I am positive I am more fit than the average 64.999 year old. Figure skate 3x per week for 2hrs each, workut 2x per week an hour or more, + play Ju-jutsu 2x per week for 1 to 2hrs each.

Really, I just don't care to measure. And really don't care what the average fitness levels are. I do the stuff 'cause I like it.

 

[Alan]

I googled the Cooper 12 minute run test and it is a test of aerobic fitness, not overall fitness as the article claims.

Seems to me this is a limited definition of one's fitness, as how fit your are is not just a function of how far you can run over a 12 minute period.

Not sure where you guys got the idea that the article ever claimed the test as anything other than a test of aerobic fitness.

From the OP article:

The Cooper 12-minute Run Test is a reliable measure of your cardiovascular fitness. All you need is a stopwatch and a track.

 

[HFWR]

I do the stuff 'cause I like it.

+1

CooperAerobics - 8 Healthy Steps

Exercise most days of the week. This health guideline is how Cooper got started. It’s our claim to fame. Drum roll, please… Participate in moderate physical activity a collective 30 minutes a day, five days a week. That’s it. Now let’s break it down:

“Moderate physical activity” – Moderate intensity should get your heart rate elevated to where you can talk but you’re winded. There are many types of cardiovascular exercise: take a brisk walk or go jogging, kick the soccer ball with the kids, play a game of touch football, swim some laps, jump rope, hop on an elliptical machine. Whatever you choose, just get moving!

 

[RunningBum]

Not sure where you guys got the idea that the article ever claimed the test as anything other than a test of aerobic fitness.

From the OP article:

My mistake, I missed the one place where they said it was cardiovascular. The title, chart, and everything else just said "fitness".

 

[Alan]

I don't get a sense from the responses that many of us are going to rush out and try this test, but just in case you are tempted, remember that if you are not accustomed to anything like this, then you need to take care as you could harm yourself.

 

[dmpi]

They have the average 50-55 year old doing 9:00 min/mile. LOL. Sad truth is there is a huge percentage of the population that couldn't even run for 12 minutes. This is a case of too few data point and extrapolating data beyond it's limits.

 

[braumeister]

Got curious enough to google cooper test, and it wasn't clear just what the population was in the studies I saw, but there sure were a lot of references to using this in the military.

Bottom line for me is, I really question if the author threw this off with the comment "how do you compare with other guys your age". I suspect that this was not an overall cross-section of the population in each age group, but some sub-set.

Oh well, it was just an observation anyway - back to my 'honey-do' list.
-ERD50

The answer to your question was in my post above.

 

[eytonxav]

Not sure where you guys got the idea that the article ever claimed the test as anything other than a test of aerobic fitness.

From the article headline:
Are You Fitter Than the Average Guy?


Even if you delve into the text, I am not sure a 12 minute run is the best measure of heart health or aerobic fitness by itself.

 

[Ronstar]

I also do not agree that a 12 minute running test is a good measure of cardio fitness. The last time I ran at a fast(for me) pace, it was 7:12 a mile for 5k. I probably cannot do much faster than that for 12 minutes. To me, a better cardio test is hiking uphill, or better yet pushing a loaded wheelbarrow up a hill.

 

[Rambler]

I started running nearly 5 years ago, after 5 years of not much of any exercise, preceded by years and years of 30-40 min per day walking. I couldn't have gone much more than 100 meters without a break when I started running, let alone a kilometer or a mile. I run 3-5 times a week now, and was hoping to do a half marathon or sprint triathlon before I ran into a blood pressure spike about 3 months ago, and backed off the heaviest of the training. Additionally, my son wanted to be a cop, so I was encouraging him to do his running and trying to meet the same standards, which differ by state, but where he is, you have to do 1.5 miles in 12:37 or so. I tested myself in the summer and did it in a few seconds less than that, @ age 50, and with a BMI just a little above 31 (i.e., I'm obese...low end of obese, but obese nonetheless).

I don't remember the exact seconds on my test but do recall passing the test...my son, at age 25, came in at about 19 minutes...:-( He will not be a police officer.

According to the chart, I would be right about the high-end of GOOD, or low-end of EXCELLENT. All of that said, you can be really fit without being a runner...and if you are not a runner, very fit, and try to run for 12 minutes at your aerobic fitness level, you WILL hurt yourself, and will probably have trouble walking for a few days after that. You will probably feel fine after the run...just try getting out of bed the next morning.

FWIW.

R

 

[ERhoosier]

They have the average 50-55 year old doing 9:00 min/mile. LOL. Sad truth is there is a huge percentage of the population that couldn't even run for 12 minutes. This is a case of too few data point and extrapolating data beyond it's limits.

^^^

I run number of local races (inc 2 marathons this yr) & agree 100% that ave 50-55yr old US man is NOT 9min/mi runner. That pace is just a bit below ave for local mid-distance RACES in that age group, and racers are a rather selected group in prob top 1% of overall fitness.

 

[photoguy]

My high school phys ed teachers were very big on cooper and used the 12min run as a test. To pass you had to do 7 laps in 12 min (1.75 miles). If you couldn't do that, there was a make up qualification where you had to run 5k (not sure on this distance, might be closer to 7k) in 40 minutes or so.

The 1.75 mile threshold was actually fairly difficult for high school students. The very best runners could hit 8 laps (2 miles) in the time. Most guys who were active (i.e. on sports teams) could hit 7 with some leeway. However I remember many guys had to do the make up run, even those that were fit (such as on swim team) but not good runners.

I often thought I should go find a track and time myself to see how well I do on the 12 min run now, but I think I'd be embarassed at how slow I've become.

 

[zinger1457]

I also do not agree that a 12 minute running test is a good measure of cardio fitness. The last time I ran at a fast(for me) pace, it was 7:12 a mile for 5k. I probably cannot do much faster than that for 12 minutes. To me, a better cardio test is hiking uphill, or better yet pushing a loaded wheelbarrow up a hill.

Not sure I get your point. No matter your age that pace would put you somewhere near the top in the fitness chart. Are you saying that you don't consider yourself to be in good cardio fitness shape? I would certainly consider anyone who can run at a 7:12 pace for 5k to be in good cardio shape.

 

[Ronstar]

Not sure I get your point. No matter your age that pace would put you somewhere near the top in the fitness chart. Are you saying that you don't consider yourself to be in good cardio fitness shape? I would certainly consider anyone who can run at a 7:12 pace for 5k to be in good cardio shape.

The test may be a general indicator of cardio fitness, but not worthy of a chart having 21 fitness levels across 6 age brackets. The test will show if a guy can run for 12 minutes faster than other guys, but does it prove that one is "fitter" than another? No. For instance, I did a sprint triathlon 2 years ago where I ran faster than several guys, but they had faster overall times than I. They swam and biked faster, and IMO have better cardio fitness. So IMO the faster runner is not always more fit than others that get cardio fitness from other forms of exercise.

I no longer run 5k's at the pace I used to. But I maintain cardio through hiking, biking, and yard work to the point that my cardio fitness is probably not much, if any, less than when I was running. Current blood pressure/pulse is lower now than when I ran.

 

[JoeWras]

They have the average 50-55 year old doing 9:00 min/mile. LOL. Sad truth is there is a huge percentage of the population that couldn't even run for 12 minutes. This is a case of too few data point and extrapolating data beyond it's limits.

Thank you dmpi! I agree.

Every time I jog my 10min mile pace (9:20 if motivated in a 5k fun run twice a year), or bike at my 11mph average pace, I know I have to be above average. I look around at w*rk and get scared sometimes. It is especially concerning to see some of the young people who clearly do nothing but gaming, driving, and then sitting here at w*rk.

I mean, all they have to do is start walking. Run for 12 minutes? I'm not sure some of these folks are capable of walking for 12 minutes.

 

[haha]

Before we say who is fitter, I might help if we could determine fitter for what? For living a long time? (TBD) For walking long distances carrying heavy loads at the old Roman 20 mpd pace? For covering a lot of ground on relatively little food? Or for doing some contrived task like the running task that is being discussed?

A great deal of research has established pretty well that fitness tends to be task specific. Even bicycling will not transfer very well to running, and swimming even less. Partly because the ankle flexibiity required by fast swimming makes a runner somewhat more prone to ankle injury.

The ancient Greeks devised the Pentathlon as an all around test of fitness, which was in effect fitness for battle in those days. Our modern Olympic Decathlon tried to showcase the same all around fitness.

IMO, most of the common knowledge about what fitness factors make for better health and longevity amounts to guessing, and much of it is heavily oriented toward marketing of equipment, clothing, gym memberships, etc.

An aside- I bet Paula Broadwell will sell a lot of gym memberships. Even Jon Stewart admits that he was mesmerized by her bare arms when he interviewed her.

Ha

 

[kramer]

I am age 47 and in the top 1% on this chart. I run an average of 3 times per week for 20 minutes, just about all out. I think that is a good balance, not too much or too little cardio exercise. I think it has lowered my blood pressure a little, but not much. My resting heart rate is probably around 42 but I rarely check it, just see it on a blood pressure monitor.

I also go to the gym about 3 times per week on the other days for working on the muscles. No cardio there, and my whole workout takes about 40 minutes. I started going to the gym a couple of years ago and this seems to have increased my weight by about 5 pounds, all muscle.

I had read that gym work is more important than cardio as we age because one can lose a lot of muscle mass after age 50. Anyway, I hope that this fitness program has improved my health.

I had heard the problem with many general fitness tests that try to apply to everyone is that many less fit people simply cannot do them and there are also definition problems. For example, pull ups are a good strength/fitness test but a large proportion of the population cannot do even a single pull up. Plus, they are hard to define correctly (did you fully straighten your arms going down at the low point, hands facing forward or backward on the bar, etc). I used pull-ups to help track my muscle fitness, but I know how I do them so easy for me to define for my own comparison.

 

[Nemo2]

Jim Fixx was a famous example

CBC News In Depth: Exercise and fitness

Fixx was an overweight smoker before he took up running. His blood cholesterol levels were elevated. He had also experienced several warning symptoms, which he chose to ignore and had refused the option of undergoing an exercise stress test

As well, Fixx's father had died of a heart attack at the age of 43. Fixx was 52 when he dropped dead of a heart attack while on a seven-kilometre run in July 1984.

An autopsy showed Fixx had severe coronary artery disease. One artery was 95 per cent blocked, a second was 80 per cent blocked and a third was 50 per cent blocked.

 

[doxeyweb]

I've been cycling for years but picked up the running bug a few years ago. I'm not some ultra skinny athlete, I average around 220lbs year round, but ran my first marathon in January of this year.
Started trail running last year and I'm scheduled for my first 50k or 32mile run in 3 weeks!
I like running in the dirt because its a little slower pace and much softer than running on asphalt.
Wish me luck!

I think the key is to come up with a routine that you enjoy and you WANT to do a few times per week...

 

[RunningBum]

Good luck doxey! Which ultra?

 

[doxeyweb]

I'm running the Tashka 50k around Tuscaloosa, AL in December
and the MS50k around Laurel, MS in March.

Both should be quite a challenge for me. I've done the 25k trail run a couple years in a row, then the Mobile, AL marathon in January. It will be a long day on the trail for me, but it will be AWESOME to call myself and Ultra-Runner!


Any suggestions for the big day...

Tashka 50k Home
Mississippi 50 Trail Run Home