As Things Reopen I am Voting With my Purse

[Aerides]

While other masks may not be as effective as N95’s, they offer some protection for the wearer and others. To suggest they provide no protection to the wearer is false.

And while I agree cloth masks are most common, I certainly see people with N95’s out and about too, we wear them. Hopefully most readers realize N95’s are nothing special, until Covid-19 anyone could buy them at any DIY home store for as little as less than a dollar each.

For sure, I have never said that even handmade cotton masks offer no protection for the wearer. I'm sure there's some, but have read varying data on effectiveness. Better than nothing, for sure. N-95s will be "special" though, for as long as it takes from here forward, for supply to meet the new demand.

 

[Midpack]

For sure, I have never said that even handmade cotton masks offer no protection for the wearer. I'm sure there's some, but have read varying data on effectiveness. Better than nothing, for sure. N-95s will be "special" though, for as long as it takes from here forward, for supply to meet the new demand.

The post I quoted did and I’ve seen it repeatedly. It seemed you subsequently supported the original post? Almost any mask that provides some protection from others also provides some protection to the wearer.

 

[bmcgonig]

For N95 to be effective they have to be fitted properly and airtight. That's tough to do and go for a walk, go to a store or really keep it on for more than a short time. And if they're not airtight then I'm not sure they're any better than other masks.

 

[JustCurious]

He is working now on a Covid-19 antiviral pill that can be taken when you first are infected that he says should be available in the Fall. He said it should be a real game changer.

Some people are asymptomatic and do not know that they are infected.

 

[stephenson]

JustCurious,

Wow.

Just wow.

 

[Badger]

And if N95 masks are only to protect others, why have hospital workers routinely worn them for decades? Not solely to protect patients from hospital workers - if that were true why would ‘a new mask with each new patient‘ be protocol? If it was only to protect workers, they could wear the same mask for a while.

I’m sure masks protect others from you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t also protect you from others. And to be clear I’m not discounting “wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.” Those have all been sound practices since long before Covid-19.


https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks
https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2009/10/14/n95/

EXACTLY! I have a couple of unused N95 masks that I bought a few years ago at HD or Lowes for working with glazes in a spray booth for ceramics. I now use them when grocery shopping (the only time I go out in public) and leave them on the car dashboard in the Florida sun until I use them again in a couple of weeks.



I started using them in early Feb even though at that time we were told we would be better off NOT wearing them. I knew then that was a crock of Bull for just the reasons pointed out in the quoted post. What that tells me is we have been and continue to be given less than accurate information about a disease that we have yet to understand. Although I am not a Virologist or Epidemiologist I do have some knowledge as having been a working Microbiologist for over a decade.


Another correction of a misunderstood and regularly misrepresented instruction is the 6 foot social distance. This is a MINIMUM distance when talking to someone. Once there is coughing, sneezing, talking when short of breath (like exercising), when there is a breeze, or if moving when behind someone then the distance is more like 10+feet. The virus is carried further. My ball park distance is if I can smell someones perfume or aftershave then the air can also carry a virus that distance.


Cheers!

 

[harllee]

Some people are asymptomatic and do not know that they are infected.

That's why we need lots of testing and tracing. I saw a report from S Korea that one asymptomatic super spreader who went to several nightclubs is believed to have infected 80 people.

 

[Aerides]

He is working now on a Covid-19 antiviral pill that can be taken when you first are infected that he says should be available in the Fall.

Some people are asymptomatic and do not know that they are infected.

Asymptomatic folks presumably don't even need a treatment, by definition. But it's still good news for those that have symptoms or might get them should they become ill...no?

 

[harllee]

Asymptomatic folks presumably don't even need a treatment, by definition. But it's still good news for those that have symptoms or might get them should they become ill...no?

But shouldn't asymptomatic folks be treated to get rid of the virus so they cannot affect others? In other pandemics like tuberculosis and typhoid fever there were people who were carriers who had to be treated to avoid spreading it to others.

 

[PatrickA5]

Ventured out to Lowes for the first time. Waited until almost closing to avoid the crowds. Well, it was still crowded and I'd guess that less than 50% were wearing masks. One younger Lowes employee (no mask) came right up next to me and asked if he could help. I motioned for him to stay away, but he didn't get it. Most people were at least trying to social distance. The Lowes employees that were wearing masks either had them around their neck or weren't covering their nose.

In my state, I think within a few weeks, the number of mask wearers will dwindle big time.

 

[Aerides]

But shouldn't asymptomatic folks be treated to get rid of the virus so they cannot affect others? In other pandemics like tuberculosis and typhoid fever there were people who were carriers who had to be treated to avoid spreading it to others.

depends what the treatment is going to do, and still not likely. Even if you have symptoms, normal protocols are to presume you can transmit for something like 10 to 14 days after your symptoms go. (If I get a cold, it's no matter if I take mucinex or not in terms of being able to infect others around me.)

But what I was really trying to get at is there are going to be multi-prongs here:

A) vaccine
B) aggressive treatments to suppress symptoms
C) social behaviors.

Your post was highlighting good news in category B. And that's good! It's not A, but that doesn't diminish it. We need all of the above.

 

[CardsFan]

The Lowes employees that were wearing masks either had them around their neck or weren't covering their nose.

I notice a lot of this. Both employees and customers. Even the gal at the pharmacy counter in Walgreens just had the mouth covered. I don't get it. Yes, she was behind plexi-glass, but still.

 

[Ready]

I notice a lot of this. Both employees and customers. Even the gal at the pharmacy counter in Walgreens just had the mouth covered. I don't get it. Yes, she was behind plexi-glass, but still.

I see the same thing too. But I’ve tried wearing a mask in the stores when I shop, which I usually limit to around 15 minutes. And after 15 minutes I can’t wait to get back to my car and get the mask off. It’s so hard to breath with those things on. I can’t imagine having to wear one all day long while doing my job. It must be awful.

 

[statsman]

I notice a lot of this. Both employees and customers. Even the gal at the pharmacy counter in Walgreens just had the mouth covered. I don't get it. Yes, she was behind plexi-glass, but still.

Go work for an essential business, particularly one dealing with individuals requiring their prescriptions (and quite possibly being sick or being exposed to someone sick), and see how long you could last wearing a mask for an entire shift. I definitely get it.

 

[audreyh1]

But shouldn't asymptomatic folks be treated to get rid of the virus so they cannot affect others? In other pandemics like tuberculosis and typhoid fever there were people who were carriers who had to be treated to avoid spreading it to others.

If it shortens how long they are contagious, sure, but how are they going to find out that they are infected other than through routine standard testing like at work or as part of contact tracing?

 

[Midpack]

I see the same thing too. But I’ve tried wearing a mask in the stores when I shop, which I usually limit to around 15 minutes. And after 15 minutes I can’t wait to get back to my car and get the mask off. It’s so hard to breath with those things on. I can’t imagine having to wear one all day long while doing my job. It must be awful.

Go work for an essential business, particularly one dealing with individuals requiring their prescriptions (and quite possibly being sick or being exposed to someone sick), and see how long you could last wearing a mask for an entire shift. I definitely get it.

We always wear masks shopping now, but I admit it’s uncomfortable and I can’t wait to get it off again. We have N95’s and cloth, and the N95’s are more uncomfortable but much better protection if properly worn for seal.

Surely most here have seen the many recent pics of health care workers with deep facial imprints and even lacerations from wearing masks, goggles and face shields for hours on end during SARS-CoV-2...

 

[mpeirce]

But shouldn't asymptomatic folks be treated to get rid of the virus so they cannot affect others? In other pandemics like tuberculosis and typhoid fever there were people who were carriers who had to be treated to avoid spreading it to others.

Neither TB nor typhoid fever are viral diseases.

 

[Chuckanut]

But shouldn't asymptomatic folks be treated to get rid of the virus so they cannot affect others? In other pandemics like tuberculosis and typhoid fever there were people who were carriers who had to be treated to avoid spreading it to others.

I think the point at this moment in time is that there is no good, easy, affordable treatment for this virus. If there were, you would see cruise ship owners, theme park owners, sports team owners, hotel owners, rental car company owners, restaurant owners, etc. doing cartwheels down Main Street.

 

[rodi]

I keep seeing this repeated, but it doesn’t make any sense to me. N95 masks are worn in industrial settings all the time to protect employees from airborne particles etc. They were required in some environments where I worked for 35 years.

And if N95 masks are only to protect others, why have hospital workers routinely worn them for decades? Not solely to protect patients from hospital workers - if that were true why would ‘a new mask with each new patient‘ be protocol? If it was only to protect workers, they could wear the same mask for a while.

I’m sure masks protect others from you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t also protect you from others. And to be clear I’m not discounting “wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, maintain physical distance, and avoid unnecessary outings.” Those have all been sound practices since long before Covid-19.


https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices...n95-respirators-and-surgical-masks-face-masks
https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2009/10/14/n95/

Ok - you cut off the part of the quote (of me) that said I was *SEWING* cloth masks. And you go off on a discussion of n95 masks. Nice way to reframe the argument.

FWIW - the patterns I am using are lined and have a pocket for a filter.... which theoretically would add more protection for the wearer. I just received the filters (ordered in mid-March) yesterday. The fitting on the masks is snug with wire (pipe cleaners) over the nose, and tucks under the chin.

 

[TheHobbit]

While other masks may not be as effective as N95’s, they offer some protection for the wearer and others. To suggest they provide no protection to the wearer is false.

Note my FDA source included surgical masks, less protection than an N95. A good lined cloth mask is close to if not equal or better than a surgical mask - I know people who are actively making lined cloth masks.

And while I agree cloth masks are most common, I certainly see people with N95’s out and about too, we wear them. Hopefully most readers realize N95’s are nothing special, until Covid-19 anyone could buy them at any DIY home store for as little as less than a dollar each.

This is where my "tribe" has a blind spot. We rant and rave when our political opponents take measures they believe help one of their causes with flimsy scientific evidence, but we turn around and do stuff like this. Completely shreds our credibility on everything else which frankly matters a lot more.

Some form of masks under laboratory tests do protect the wearer -- with things like having somebody sneeze directly in your face, or blood splatter in a surgery (if you go actually read one of those papers people like to hock). The evidence is mixed at best if it helps reduce the R value of a disease like COVID-19. Meaning -- we do not have conclusive evidence if it "protects people from you" in a way which is statistically significant in the scenarios people are wearing them (retail, grocery stores vs. hospital settings).

Asking people to do something like this without strong evidence is counter-productive. The next time we need people to follow the advice of the CDC (which I remind you is just RECOMMENDING vs mandating -- because they don't have strong evidence), many people won't listen because their credibility will be seen to be eroded.

Very disappointed, figured we were better than this.

 

[harllee]

I think the point at this moment in time is that there is no good, easy, affordable treatment for this virus. If there were, you would see cruise ship owners, theme park owners, sports team owners, hotel owners, rental car company owners, restaurant owners, etc. doing cartwheels down Main Street.

Per the NPR interview yesterday with the UNC expert who developed Remdisiver-- his lab is working on an antiviral pill for Covid-19 that should be available by the Fall. He said "it will be a game changer." Unlike Remdisiver (which has to be administrated intravenously) the new antiviral will be a pill.

 

[Midpack]

Ok - you cut off the part of the quote (of me) that said I was *SEWING* cloth masks. And you go off on a discussion of n95 masks. Nice way to reframe the argument.

FWIW - the patterns I am using are lined and have a pocket for a filter.... which theoretically would add more protection for the wearer. I just received the filters (ordered in mid-March) yesterday. The fitting on the masks is snug with wire (pipe cleaners) over the nose, and tucks under the chin.

Sorry I did not intentionally cut out the cloth mask reference. But again, my reply was not confined to N95's (as you're now alleging ) - it included N95's and surgical masks, which are equivalent to some cloth masks.

But any mask that protects others from you, also protects you from others as well. Saying "masks are to protect those around you when you must go out - to contain YOUR respiratory germiness... Not to protect yourself." is misleading at best.

 

[slowsaver]

One place that is not going to get any business from me--the local Whole Foods. It was on the local news that the local Whole Foods had several employees test positive for Covid-19 starting back in MARCH but they did not let the other employees or customers know anything about it --they seemed to hide it. I am not shopping at Whole Foods.

That sounds terrible. Whole Foods has been good for us though. We're trying to stay out of stores all together, but grocery delivery services here were both expensive and sold-out most of the time. Whole Foods allowed you to purchase groceries online, and then choose a pick-up time, then you could drive your car to the front of whole foods and someone would put the bags in your trunk for you. You didn't have to get out of the car or do any kind of interaction. Also, there was no charge for curbside pick-up.

We did all our shopping at Safeway before the lockdown. We might keep using Whole Foods after this is all done.

 

[imnontrad]

I found out that even stores that had a person at the front door to ensure people wore a mask going in did nothing to ensure that the customers were still wearing a mask while shopping.

 

[Leo1277]

I developed a headache and felt like passing out when I first wore an N95 mask. (I remember having the same symptoms in high elevation areas of Peru from lack of oxygen.) I used to get a sore throat wearing a medical kind of mask and so did my DH. My mom started sneezing a lot when she started wearing a mask. But after a while, my body adjusted and no more sore throat. My mom stopped sneezing as well. I think there's a learning curve (for the body and mind).

I have heard this effect described by several people I know. The main part may be that there is a remaining volume of exhaled air in the mask that is now being inhaled again, which effectively reduces the concentration of oxygen in the lungs. It's actually the same as with snorkeling, where you always re-breathe the air volume trapped in the snorkel tube. Our snorkel instructor advised us that we should force ourselves to take deeper breaths to overcome this, and thus force out a corresponding amount of non-recirculated air that would otherwise stay in the lungs. After a while you tend to do it automatically.