Career advice for one of my kids

[SecondCor521]

Hi all.

My son is a college sophomore at a school he seems to like, and was working towards a degree in mechanical engineering. He's been struggling.

Today in a phone call we seem to have arrived at the conclusion that mechanical engineering is probably not the right degree for him.

He isn't doing well in some of the core classes, isn't looking forward to some of the remaining core classes. He generally isn't happy and also seems very stressed out to me. He also says he doesn't have a very good idea of what mechanical engineers actually *do*, which makes it even more difficult for him to pursue it.

The stress in the phone call seemed to me to subside a fair amount once we started talking about alternative options and taking steps to investigate other choices.

I'm seeking input for (a) what other fields to consider, and (b) how to go about career counseling.

As far as (a) goes, here's what I know about him that might be relevant:

He's very smart and pretty well rounded (IB graduate, merit scholarship)
Naturally good at and inclined towards entrepreneur-type stuff - he's had several successful small businesses in high school
Has some leadership and teaching skills and ability
Loved his junior high tech class (took it and then was a teaching assistant)
Loves engineering competitions (like mousetrap cars, building bridges out of popsicle sticks) - he and his team won the freshman engineering contest at his school
Loved his CAD class and SolidWorks
Loves failure analysis stuff like the engineering disaster shows
Likes mechanical stuff like cars and watches and assembling computers
Happens to be tall, good-looking, charming, and personable
Wants to be "successful", which I think to him means having a respected career, an interesting job he likes, and being able to buy the stuff he wants (nice car, nice clothes, nice things in general).
ADHD but hates the meds so far
Does not like the "details" of the central part of mechanical engineering classes like thermo and physics
Did not think that going to Rolex watch school would be a good career type move - sees that more as a hobby

I see him not as a pure engineering engineer, but as a person who can be engineering adjacent (engineering sales / customer stuff / business?). I've tried to impart to him in the phone call that he can be very successful in that type of career.

Sometimes he also seems like someone who might be suitable for a technical trade of some kind (watch repair, for example), but I think that career track probably doesn't satisfy his "respected career" criteria. (For the purposes of this thread, please set aside whether the trades are, are not or should be respected. I think they should be but reluctantly accept that generally they are not, but that's largely beside the point.)

As far as (b) goes, I've suggested:

1. Reading through his school's course catalog and seeing if any other degree program seems appealing.
2. Talking with any of his engineering faculty that he likes and trusts. He liked this suggestion and is executing on it today.
3. Taking classes in different areas that appeal (expensive and slow, but might work). He likes this idea.
4. Talking with the career counseling folks at his university. He might do this.
5. Getting jobs and working in areas he thinks he might like (like a CAD technician) and then working towards adjacent areas until he (a) hits a brick wall and needs some credentials, (b) is told he needs credentials, or (c) everyone who does what he wants has a certain kind of credential. Then getting that credential if he wants.
6. Talking with his uncle who has a degree in product design (which is, I understand it, mechanical engineering adjacent).
7. I didn't today, but I think I've mentioned job shadowing and informational interviews.
8. I pointed out the BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook as a resource.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice on either (a) specific careers / jobs / whatever that might be suitable, or (b) good methods to identify and evaluate career choices.

 

[Scrapr]

Possibly Construction Engineering Management? (CEM) Engineering but more out in the field & hands on

https://cce.oregonstate.edu/content/construction-engineering-management

 

[Montecfo]

I would suggest abilities testing, so you can determine what type of career he is best suited for.

aimstesting.org is an example.

Note this is not determining interests, it is abilities or what you are best wired to do.

It can help determine if engineering is a path to which your son's abilities are naturally suited.

Worth spending a little on that before spending a lot on schooling heading in a difficult direction, or so it seems from here.

 

[Lewis Clark]

When I earned my degree in mechanical engineering I found the classwork to be quite broad, because MEs do a lot of different things. My classes included fluid dynamics, dynamic systems, thermodynamics (heat transfer), strength of materials, a few classes in electrical engineering subjects, and others I've forgotten. An ME degree can lead to many different career paths.

For me personally, my degree was important in my career as a submarine officer and my follow-on job in manufacturing.

Talking to some professors is a good idea. Perhaps look at the website for the American Society of MEs for ideas.
https://www.asme.org

Perhaps there are some professional meetings he could attend for more networking ideas, through ASME or on campus.

 

[Brat]

I have a young (30-ish) shirt-tail relative with a Construction Engineering Management degree from Oregon State, he is doing very well. I think Washington State offers a similar program.

There is nothing wrong with becoming an electrician. Steer clear of high voltage (dangerous and requires a lot of travel), ad low voltage (lower pay).

 

[ivinsfan]

You're a good Dad, but we've seen that before.


For what it's worth my SIL who met my daughter freshman year enrolled in the well respected engineering school at the U of MN. After the first year he had many of the same reservations your boy has.


SIL switched over to the U business school and got a degree in Management of Information Systems. A combination of business and IT. My DD has the same degree and they have done very well both in terms of job satisfaction and pay.


The 2 of them are basically FI at 44.



Not a pure CS degree so more flexibility IMO.

 

[Love This Community]

I started in Mechanical Engineering but did not truly enjoy the machine design and core mechanical subjects. Switched to Industrial Management and Systems Engineering that has served me pretty well. Think of Industrial Engineering as a generic MBA program but for Engineers. Career opportunities for IE’s span across various industries.

 

[Aerides]

Given it's April, I'd say don't worry about the future right now. Just get through the next 6 weeks until the semester is over, and take a break for the summer. Is he coming home for the break?

Consider even a gap year while he works things out. I think just easing the pressure, and his talk with you where you've made it clear you'll help him with options is a great start, just don't rush to a new path or solution. Product/Project Management might suit him well.

I don't think all that many of us end up being what we thought we'd be at 19, and were successful anyway, and perhaps knowing that at 19 might have made a whole lot of us feel better at the time.

 

[CardsFan]

.......
SIL switched over to the U business school and got a degree in Management of Information Systems. A combination of business and IT.
.......
Not a pure CS degree so more flexibility IMO.

+1.

Our son did almost the exact same thing at Purdue. He went there for the engineering school, but it was just not his thing.

It's OK to change.

I still remember orientation when I started engineering School: "look to your left, and look to your right. Out of the 3 of you only 1 of you will graduate with an engineering degree"

 

[SecondCor521]

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions so far. Please keep them coming!

To answer the following:

Given it's April, I'd say don't worry about the future right now. Just get through the next 6 weeks until the semester is over, and take a break for the summer. Is he coming home for the break?

Consider even a gap year while he works things out. I think just easing the pressure, and his talk with you where you've made it clear you'll help him with options is a great start, just don't rush to a new path or solution. Product/Project Management might suit him well.

I don't think all that many of us end up being what we thought we'd be at 19, and were successful anyway, and perhaps knowing that at 19 might have made a whole lot of us feel better at the time.

Well, things are a bit up in the air currently due to the general career issue.

He is likely dropping one of his spring classes today in order to avoid adverse impacts on his GPA. He is trying to balance GPA with satisfactory academic progress, which impact his scholarships and financial aid, respectively.

I respect the effort, but I also don't want him to be overstressed to the point of being sick and unhappy. I also think once he sorts the career choice thing out, the finances and education will work itself out somehow.

At the moment he wants to stay there (Oklahoma) and take some summer classes and work.

By way of further background, he has already taken a COVID-inspired gap year, and he repeated a grade in high school. He turned 22 just recently. I would be supportive of any additional number of gap years. I did a gap year and a half myself, and his older brother stopped out for about three or four years.

In the conversation I did point out to him how much various relatives of his who ended up successful changed majors and schools and took gap years and such; this was in an effort to let him know that he is OK and typical and that many successful people go through this sort of thing.

 

[ScoopKona]

In the conversation I did point out to him how much various relatives of his who ended up successful changed majors and schools and took gap years and such; this was in an effort to let him know that he is OK and typical and that many successful people go through this sort of thing.

The most-important variable is what does he want?

If he doesn't know, that makes things difficult. Not everyone has a "childhood dream job" that they work towards as a young adult. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to not know at that age -- and feel like he's spinning his wheels.

I'd do the same thing I suggested to the gentleman in the "Hi, I am" forum: Have him write down the top 10 or 20 things he'd like to do. Even the pipe dreams. And actually write them -- don't type them or talk it out. Sheet of paper. Pen. And then he can take a good long look and see if there are any common threads he can weave into a plan.

I did this when my first career melted down due to external forces. Everything I liked about it evaporated, leaving nothing but stress and frustration. So I wrote my list down and then went back to school to learn how to brew beer.

 

[Mark1]

How about metallurgy as a major? About 10 years, we pretty much had to hire folks from Asia as we got zero applications from US citizens. His existing background in Mechanical coursework will come in handy, pay is good, and he can perform failure analysis if that interest him.

 

[CardsFan]

Another thought:

When I went school, many moons ago, you could switch engineering majors at the end of sophomore year without needing to add classes (there was enough overlap). So maybe Civil Engineering (my bias) which really covers a lot of the other disciplines.

 

[SnowballCamper]

The most-important variable is what does he want?

If he doesn't know, that makes things difficult. Not everyone has a "childhood dream job" that they work towards as a young adult. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to not know at that age -- and feel like he's spinning his wheels.

Yeah, that's the hard thing. I think choosing the academic major / career is nearly the most important decision a person makes. I also know that the majority of us are not qualified to make that decision at an age under 25. By the time I was 25 I had worked in automotive maintenance, fast food, excavation equipment operator, communications equipment repair, and bomb disposal. Then I went to college and ended up with the most useless degree there is...mathematics. Why math? because you can teach yourself most anything else with a good textbook, but learning the math is hard, and I think that is the hard part of engineering...the math. So another perspective is to get his money's worth... don't overload on courses. Dial back to what he can handle, and work through it. Then he'll know what not to seek out in the job market.

 

[Dhickman57]

Many of my coworkers moved from engineering to engineer technologies. This degree is a more hands on approach for those that want to be more involved in the end product than in just the design.
Was a great balance for most of my coworkers that chose that path, really allowed them the freedom to focus on all aspects of the job.

 

[catii]

Engineers make more money, & are respected because there are so few of us. Yes, the courses are difficult, because what we do often impacts people's lives, & you need to know a lot to handle tough problems. After you've built a building, a bridge, or a refinery, you need to get it right the first time, & not just scratch your head! I got my undergrad degrees in Chemical & Petroleum Engineering, & never regretted the pain of getting through those courses, with the draft looking over my shoulder! The military paid for my Masters & Doctorate in Systems Engineering, & I ran my consulting company until I retired, for medical reasons.

Is it hard to graduate as an engineer? Yes. Is it worth the pain? Absolutely! But there's no way to "coast" through those courses.

 

[Bamaman]

Many freshman my first year went into engineering majors. By the end of the first year, they were Industrial Management majors due to the tough core courses including tough math and chemistry courses. And at the time, so many of those that did really well in engineering were born in other countries. And those that did make through that difficult coursework really didn't have the highest GPA--as they just got by.

The Industrial Management school was associated with the engineering school. I'd look to see what they have to offer as majors. There's certainly no overabundance of construction foremen in this world. I have a neighbor that was GM of rebuilding a huge coal fired steam plant with 4,000 workers answering to him. I honestly don't know where they're finding qualified job superintendents to build the massive factories just in the electric vehicle world--and battery factories costing $ billions.

So many young college age kids were raised from birth with computers as the center of their lives. And they are naturals with everything to do with computers--a diverse field. Many engineering schools are now overrun with computer majors. But the very finest computer people didn't have time to graduate college--with technology changing faster than any university could keep up with.

My cousin was a Geology major mapping the underground for oil. His job went bust in the 90's, and he went to work in asbestos abatement. Then he switched to mold abatement when a hurricane wiped Galveston out. Asbestos inspectors are everywhere, but there are few certified mold inspectors to inspect every commercial building in his state whenever they're sold. The Houson VA hospital had 6 deaths from Legionnare's Disease, and my cousin was contracted to inspect huge hospitals for those dreaded germs in stagnant water in pipes. There are next to none working in that field, and they're making a fortune.

But with Covid, many retail and wholesale companies large and small are hiring special industrial hygene advisors. This field is really on the upswing, and it includes hospitals and other companies afraid of potential liabilities they could have. Inspections of small businesses and restaurants are very profitable too as they're charged by the samples they take to analyze for germs. It's going to be a good field--and long lasting one too.

There's just so many areas that sharp young people can go into.

 

[RobbieB]

At the start of my freshman year we had our "engineering orientation" day with a tour and various discussion periods. One thing stood out. Some guy told us getting through engineering to a degree was a coin flip. 50-50. Half the freshmen either flunked out or left by junior year.

Yup, tough stuff.

 

[freedom2022]

I am a professional engineer.
My son is in his final year of Mechanical Engineering (finger crossed).
He struggled in his first year. He didn't get into the major in his second year.
He even failed (E) in a math course in the second semester. I asked him to repeat that course in the following summer. And he got B+. So, that showed he could do it if he made efforts.
I had a serious discussion with him back then.
I told him it was his decision to do with his life.
Working minimum wage and sharing a studio apartment with a room mate or finish the degree and opening a lot of possibilities.
Mechanical engineering does not necessary mean perform complex analysis to design machines, aircrafts, etc. A mechanical engineer can work in quality control, production, maintenance, etc. for a manufacturing company.

If your son does not like physics, calculus, etc., it can be difficult to finish a degree in mechanical engineering. Industrial engineering does not require advance math courses, but it does require statistics courses. Chemical engineering is more like a general engineering, but he can't hate high school chemistry if he wants to pursue it.

 

[rodi]

SecCor - I'm glad to hear your son is exploring his options, talking to professors, etc. His background sounds similar to my younger son - IB high school, robotics, science club, jobs and self started businesses, strong entrepreneurial streak. He had thought about going into engineering but when it came time to apply to schools he changed his mind to go for Business.. Now that he's in the program he realizes he loves the numbers side (accounting, statistics) and is trying to figure out how to use that to start his own business someday.

Your son will figure it out. It may add a year to his schooling, but he'll figure it out.

 

[Brat]

MY DD was enrolled in Santa Clara's Engineering program. She found that it was too individual contributor so switched to their school of Finance. Need I say she has done well... although I told her that she needed to punch the CPA ticket.

Your son needs to evaluate his academic strengths.

 

[ivinsfan]

SecCor - I'm glad to hear your son is exploring his options, talking to professors, etc. His background sounds similar to my younger son - IB high school, robotics, science club, jobs and self started businesses, strong entrepreneurial streak. He had thought about going into engineering but when it came time to apply to schools he changed his mind to go for Business.. Now that he's in the program he realizes he loves the numbers side (accounting, statistics) and is trying to figure out how to use that to start his own business someday.

Your son will figure it out. It may add a year to his schooling, but he'll figure it out.

With 2 DD as business school graduates I have to say it's underrated as to flexibility and ease of completion in 4 years

 

[savory]

I read most but not all responses. My take on college is not necessarily to walk out with a dream job. It is to start the process to find yourself. I majored in something I liked, sociology, and ended up in marketing. DD left undergraduate with an African Studies degree. Then won a Fulbright scholarship doing research on gender violence. She is now an RN. DS dropped out his junior year in computer science but found his way into one of the most respected companies in the world, doing CS type work which basically he taught himself. That was over 10 years ago.

Everyone has their own experience and expectations. I just wanted to share this perspective as I saw it once or twice but it was not a common suggestion.

 

[38Chevy454]

How about metallurgy as a major? About 10 years, we pretty much had to hire folks from Asia as we got zero applications from US citizens. His existing background in Mechanical coursework will come in handy, pay is good, and he can perform failure analysis if that interest him.

I am a metallurgical engineering degree grad. You still have to take all of the engineering core classes. Only difference is the major specific courses. So that'll still be just as tough for OP's kid as mechanical engineering. I also was a PE, so had take andpass the EIT (I think has a different name now) which all engineers have topass and then pass the metallurgical specific test. Can't pass those without the full engineering course program.

My suggestion for OP's kid is look into engineering technology degree. Generally more hand on based and less of the high theory stuff. That could be a good fit based on the kid's interests.

 

[iloveyoga]

Heating and cooling, especially if he will live in a climate that is both cold and hot. Lots of electronics involved in today's equipment and you can get into some really creative stuff in the new construction end of things. Lots of working with all types of people and also lots of daily variety. My son owns his own HVAC company and it has been very gratifying to watch the process and also to work for him PT. Good luck to your son in whatever he chooses and good job to you in listening to what he wanted to tell you.